List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[baldandbroke]

Who was the last genuine player we drafted in the first round not from SA and kept long enough to cash in?

I’m struggling to think of anyone! (HOPING Rachele is one for the future)

Compared to players we have traded in? Dawson, Rankine, Betts, Thommo, Sauce, Jarman … going back a long way now!!

Can we nab someone with a too good to refuse offer? Seems like it only works on SA born players, so the shelf is pretty slim pickings!!

Hayward? Luko? Cox? I don’t see us getting near Phillipou or Day… even with a crazy offer.

We are getting 2 x good picks next year from fs.

I dunno, feels like a long shot to not only pick the player in the draft… but also to hold onto them long enough to benefit. If they aren’t from SA you’d want to be pretty sure of yourself

 

[baldandbroke]

Then we have Laird.. sure, gets plenty of posessions.. often does very little amounts of damage to the opposition with them though.. loves the old “kick and hope” forward to make it someone elses problem.. but hey, his stats look great!

So Laird is no good now BC?

 

[NSolis]

Who was the last genuine player we drafted in the first round not from SA and kept long enough to cash in?

I’m struggling to think of anyone! (HOPING Rachele is one for the future)

Compared to players we have traded in? Dawson, Rankine, Betts, Thommo, Sauce, Jarman … going back a long way now!!

Can we nab someone with a too good to refuse offer? Seems like it only works on SA born players, so the shelf is pretty slim pickings!!

Hayward? Luko? Cox? I don’t see us getting near Phillipou or Day… even with a crazy offer.

We are getting 2 x good picks next year from fs.

I dunno, feels like a long shot to not only pick the player in the draft… but also to hold onto them long enough to benefit. If they aren’t from SA you’d want to be pretty sure of yourself

Daniel Talia? This question about who we have drafted not from SA is tough because by definition all the recent first round draft picks are early in their career and it's difficult to assess how good they are going to end up. Chayce Jones would be one of the obvious candidates other than Rachele who is first round, non-SA and seems to be a long-term player, but his ceiling is still to be determined. Other current non-SA first round draft pick players are McHenry and Doedee.

 

[NSolis]

Port just had a 13 game winning streak and have made top 4 off the back of their midfield. They have a makeshift forward line and a makeshift defence.

I think we are insane if we don't move rankine into the midfield for the majority of his playing time as we have rachele and pedlar that are also very adept small forwards too.

If we get that midfield right and to me izak has the most potential of anyone onour list to become elite, the rest will take care of itself considering the talent we have in both front and back halves

I don't know about the majority of his time. I suspect his future is closer to what Toby Greene (18% CBAs) or Tom Papley (34% CBAs) did this year than Charlie Cameron (0%), but he will still be a forward most of the time.

 

[rabidcrow]

Just like he shelved half the squad to play the same players every week regardless of form.

It is a worry that he genuinely thought we'd play finals with McHenry, Sholl and Murphy in the side even though we were only winning 50% of the time. What does that say about his coaching.

If Doedee, Butts and Murray stayed fit all year, would we have seen Worrell, Keane and Borlase? It really is a huge red flag it took until after the Essendon game for him to react on selection. 16 weeks too late. I think we would have genuinely played finals easily had he been brave to make opportunistic changes when form slumps occurred.

Are you on something? So we saw Keane and Borlase 16 weeks to late? We didnt want to see them at all - you know every club has footballers in their seconds that can play somewhat? And don’t get a game

Murray is light years ahead of those two.
Butts at a similar level.
Keane did several horrible turnovers and was very ordinary in the first half against Sydney - he isn’t a clear upgrade on Butts

Now in terms of only winning 50% of the time that’s a fair call - but I don’t think changing our 21-23 picked players was going to change that. Our form - while not always winning - was good outside a couple of games and a couple of quarters within games


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Gtowncrow]

I'm interested in a Gollant vs McAdam spot in the forwards.
On the assumption that their marking is somewhat equal, which player is superior after that. Chasing, tackling, leading, rucking(Gollant?), crumbing, goal sense, skills execution, defensive pressure, team player, kicking accuracy etc...

I'm thinking this is a close tussle.

Who?
Why?

 

[Bearded Clam]

So Laird is no good now BC?

Laird gets a lot of posessions.

Laird does a lot of tackling.

But laird isnt a top line midfielder.

His kicking is inconsistent.. Sure, he can nail the odd very good pass into our forward line but, lets face it, his kicks are more often than not hack kicks that often travel halfway to the moon..

His kicking for goal on the run out of a contest (stoppage) is pretty good.. but you wouldnt be betting on his set shot kicking.. sometimes he nails them.. sometimes he doesnt.

He’s the best option out of him, keays and sloane.. but if Crouch stays and can continue on with the same form then I’d have this new “take the game on” crouch of the last few weeks in the middle over Laird.. crouch has better skills.

But both Crouch and Laird in the same centre square bounce isnt a good thing which makes it difficult for balance of the 22.

Laird IMO is a solid B+ midfielder.. to be an
A-grader you need to be far more damaging with your posessions than Rory Laird is.

We need Laird midfield minutes to be reduced and shared with Pedlar, rach and rankine

We need Taylor and Dowling to step up too.. lads with skills.

The weakest link is still our midfield.

 

[jackster83]

Are you on something? So we saw Keane and Borlase 16 weeks to late? We didnt want to see them at all - you know every club has footballers in their seconds that can play somewhat? And don’t get a game

Murray is light years ahead of those two.
Butts at a similar level.
Keane did several horrible turnovers and was very ordinary in the first half against Sydney - he isn’t a clear upgrade on Butts

Now in terms of only winning 50% of the time that’s a fair call - but I don’t think changing our 21-23 picked players was going to change that. Our form - while not always winning - was good outside a couple of games and a couple of quarters within games


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The problem with picking the same 23 players each week is they drop off over the course of a season due to injuries, fatigue, etc. Even if they are better than the guys in the reserves, it's about managing your resources over a long season.

We saw the same thing happen in previous seasons where we fell away around the time of the bye.

We managed guys like Soligo, Pedlar, Thilthorpe and Max too late, whilst stupidly playing Sloane every game (ignoring his form for a minute - it's dumb to keep playing a 33 year old coming off a knee reco every single week) and even guys like ROB, Laird and Dawson started looking fatigued in the back half of the year.

We need to get rid of this Neil Craig era obsession with continuity.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I'm interested in a Gollant vs McAdam spot in the forwards.
On the assumption that their marking is somewhat equal, which player is superior after that. Chasing, tackling, leading, rucking(Gollant?), crumbing, goal sense, skills execution, defensive pressure, team player, kicking accuracy etc...

I'm thinking this is a close tussle.

Who?
Why?

Mcadam..

On x-factor alone.

But he beats gollant in straightline speed too..

McAdam is better overhead
Mcadam’s great on the lead.
Mcadam has slightly more agression.. gollant isnt far off in this department though.
Both are very reliable set shots for goal.
Gollant is slightly more selfish than mcadam IMO

When he plays in the AFL side.. Gollant struggles to know when to go to the contest and when to drag his player away from the contest.. but that simply could be Gollant not spending enough time playing side by side with our AFL forwards in real games (not just training sims).

McAdam can do the miraculous. This makes him difficult to match up on.

If Im picking a side and I have a choice between mcadam and gollant for that medium type forward role.. I’m picking Mcadam every single time. Makes our forward line even more dynamic and dangerous.

 

[jamesclean]

Mcadam..

On x-factor alone.

But he beats gollant in straightline speed too..

McAdam is better overhead
Mcadam’s great on the lead.
Mcadam has slightly more agression.. gollant isnt far off in this department though.
Both are very reliable set shots for goal.
Gollant is slightly more selfish than mcadam IMO

When he plays in the AFL side.. Gollant struggles to know when to go to the contest and when to drag his player away from the contest.. but that simply could be Gollant not spending enough time playing side by side with our AFL forwards in real games (not just training sims).

McAdam can do the miraculous. This makes him difficult to match up on.

If Im picking a side and I have a choice between mcadam and gollant for that medium type forward role.. I’m picking Mcadam every single time. Makes our forward line even more dynamic and dangerous.

very good take from the clam!!! I'd be happy to explain away the selfishness as a fringe player trying to win selection though.

 

[MRB37]

I'm interested in a Gollant vs McAdam spot in the forwards.
On the assumption that their marking is somewhat equal, which player is superior after that. Chasing, tackling, leading, rucking(Gollant?), crumbing, goal sense, skills execution, defensive pressure, team player, kicking accuracy etc...

I'm thinking this is a close tussle.

Who?
Why?

With our current forward line and how we contantly push our smalls out of the forward 50 to be the extra at the ball having a stay home forward like McAdam, who can not only impact in the air, but pressure at ground level is extremely important.

Gollant looks to be a good player, but they're not direct one for one replacements and moving McAdam on to play Gollant will require a rejig of our forward line slightly.

 

[MrBarry]

Grundy is going to be more than handy for them, with their midfield if he can break even in the ruck they will be in front.

We can laugh all we want about their top ups, but they’ve finished top 4 3 out of 4 years, if they had Grundy and a key defender, they’ll be contending again.

Nothing to show for it and won't this year either.

 

[MrBarry]

Yep, have to give them credit, they identify a weakness and try and fill it. They also manage to get non South Aussies to come play for them.

Anyone bagging them needs to take of their Crows glasses and acknowledge when other clubs do something well, even when it’s the scum

They haven't identified actual weaknesses though have they - their kpf and kpd stocks are extremely weak. We had a better midfield in the 2000s but it doesn't mean much when your forward line is total shite.

 

[George Kramer]

They haven't identified actual weaknesses though have they - their kpf and kpd stocks are extremely weak. We had a better midfield in the 2000s but it doesn't mean much when your forward line is total shite.

They tried for a KPD last year and are in the market for one this year. Hence the point of my post.

They were 4th on goals kicked this year, 2nd highest efficiency inside 50.

You might want to take off the bias when making comments about other teams.

 

[George Kramer]

Nothing to show for it and won't this year either.

Most probably not, but they are in with a chance and are still trying to bring players in to improve their shortcomings.

 

[Multiballz]

Are you on something? So we saw Keane and Borlase 16 weeks to late? We didnt want to see them at all - you know every club has footballers in their seconds that can play somewhat? And don’t get a game

Murray is light years ahead of those two.
Butts at a similar level.
Keane did several horrible turnovers and was very ordinary in the first half against Sydney - he isn’t a clear upgrade on Butts

Now in terms of only winning 50% of the time that’s a fair call - but I don’t think changing our 21-23 picked players was going to change that. Our form - while not always winning - was good outside a couple of games and a couple of quarters within games


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

They went in short and lost rather than "seeing" them. Not once, not twice.

 

[baldandbroke]

Laird gets a lot of posessions.

Laird does a lot of tackling.

But laird isnt a top line midfielder.

His kicking is inconsistent.. Sure, he can nail the odd very good pass into our forward line but, lets face it, his kicks are more often than not hack kicks that often travel halfway to the moon..

His kicking for goal on the run out of a contest (stoppage) is pretty good.. but you wouldnt be betting on his set shot kicking.. sometimes he nails them.. sometimes he doesnt.

He’s the best option out of him, keays and sloane.. but if Crouch stays and can continue on with the same form then I’d have this new “take the game on” crouch of the last few weeks in the middle over Laird.. crouch has better skills.

But both Crouch and Laird in the same centre square bounce isnt a good thing which makes it difficult for balance of the 22.

Laird IMO is a solid B+ midfielder.. to be an
A-grader you need to be far more damaging with your posessions than Rory Laird is.

We need Laird midfield minutes to be reduced and shared with Pedlar, rach and rankine

We need Taylor and Dowling to step up too.. lads with skills.

The weakest link is still our midfield.

Yeah, when you compare Laird to a top line mid like Cripps it really shows how insightful you are ….

Rory Laird and Patrick Cripps AFL Stats Comparison

Rory Laird and Patrick Cripps AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Bearded Clam]

Yeah, when you compare Laird to a top line mid like Cripps it really shows how insightful you are ….

Rory Laird and Patrick Cripps AFL Stats Comparison

Rory Laird and Patrick Cripps AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Fxxk me..

Laird isnt even fit to tie Cripps’s shoelaces.

you’re absolutely kidding yourself even trying to compare the pair.

how many people have ever said “Yeah, I reckon Patrick Cripps and Rory Laird are pretty much identical players” and not been immediately threatened with being locked up in the nearest loony bin..

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Who was the last genuine player we drafted in the first round not from SA and kept long enough to cash in?

I’m struggling to think of anyone! (HOPING Rachele is one for the future)

Compared to players we have traded in? Dawson, Rankine, Betts, Thommo, Sauce, Jarman … going back a long way now!!

Can we nab someone with a too good to refuse offer? Seems like it only works on SA born players, so the shelf is pretty slim pickings!!

Hayward? Luko? Cox? I don’t see us getting near Phillipou or Day… even with a crazy offer.

We are getting 2 x good picks next year from fs.

I dunno, feels like a long shot to not only pick the player in the draft… but also to hold onto them long enough to benefit. If they aren’t from SA you’d want to be pretty sure of yourself

Talia 2009 off the top of my head.

 

[baldandbroke]

Fxxk me..

Laird isnt even fit to tie Cripps’s shoelaces.

you’re absolutely kidding yourself even trying to compare the pair.

how many people have ever said “Yeah, I reckon Patrick Cripps and Rory Laird are pretty much identical players” and not been immediately threatened with being locked up in the nearest loony bin..

Not like you to fly off the handle and miss the point. I didn’t even mention Keays.

You are claiming Laird is crap because … Do you remember? Too far back?

I was pointing to the problem with your reasoning … too complex?

Where did I say Cripps and Laird were the same?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Not like you to fly off the handle and miss the point. I didn’t even mention Keays.

You are claiming Laird is crap because … Do you remember? Too far back?

I was pointing to the problem with your reasoning … too complex?

Where did I say Cripps and Laird were the same?

Um.. maybe in your previous comment when you compared laird to cripps!.. and tried to use raw statistics to prove it…

 

[Bearded Clam]

Not like you to fly off the handle and miss the point. I didn’t even mention Keays.

You are claiming Laird is crap because … Do you remember? Too far back?

I was pointing to the problem with your reasoning … too complex?

Where did I say Cripps and Laird were the same?

And why the fxxk do you think I’m “flying off the handle?”..

I’m sitting back two beers in all relaxed just responding to a few comments on here.. heart rates barely hitting 60..

just cause I‘ve spent my life on construction sites and use colourful language doesnt instantly mean I’m “flying off the handle”..

 

[Jeffcrowe]

On the up, time to fire, fading fast: The 2023 age and experience ladder

We analyse all 18 lists to see which are on the up and which need to rebuild

www.afl.com.au

Good article showing we are in a decent spot to make hay next 5 years

I really hope we spend next 2 off seasons adding absolute A graders from pointy end of draft or in FA / Trade deals

It’s time for quality over quantity

This year is looking like a draft year , I’m all in on trying to move up the draft order where possible , no need to use later picks

No using pick 50s to get a Bond

 

[baldandbroke]

Um.. maybe in your previous comment when you compared laird to cripps!.. and tried to use raw statistics to prove it…

Well tell me again - why is Laird b-grade?

Then look at the comparison.

Then see if your brain can make the leap.

 

[baldandbroke]

And why the fxxk do you think I’m “flying off the handle?”..

I’m sitting back two beers in all relaxed just responding to a few comments on here.. heart rates barely hitting 60..

just cause I‘ve spent my life on construction sites and use colourful language doesnt instantly mean I’m “flying off the handle”..

Yeah - I forgot to factor in the construction sites. That was my mistake.