List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

Can we draft a winger late? Where do wingers normally fall in the draft?

Start at round four and then go higher each round for each of: speed, kicking ability, size, running capacity

 

[freo_leo29]

What don't you like about Williams?

We had two top ten picks, the first pick of the second round and then a pick that ended up being #54 that we took Benning with which was a few picks before Williams went to WC.

I'm not sure the option to take him prior with #8, #10, #21 or #54 really translates into multiple chances to take him unless we drastically reached.

I have reservations on Williams' agility and speed but haven't seen him playing half injured last year and obviously this year he has been recovering from that preseason hospitalisation.

forget the multiple chances then, we had a chance or 2 to pick him and we didnt

we made the right call

doesnt have AFL attributes

 

[freo_leo29]

Can we draft a winger late? Where do wingers normally fall in the draft?

Langdon was 54
Smith like 22ish
Hunter 49 as f/s (matched 35)
Stephens a top 10
Chayce Jones a top 10
Acres a teens pick
Mclullage top 3 but moved more to mids now


just a few off the top of my head, can get em anywhere really

 

[Docker82]

If Ras and Johnno are actually going to be quality players, not sure we need to spend significant capital on mids that can't play other positions.

ATM we’ve got one inside mid playing at Peel this week. Johnson is the only inside mid unavailable. We’re also playing a midfielder short at AFL level imo.

There simply isn’t enough mids for this list to compete for a flag. There should be 2-3 midfielders outside the best 22 at Peel that are ready to go if needed. JOM ain’t very young either.

We should still be aiming to get this squad back on track in the next 2-3 years imo. If we add the right players through draft and trade it’s more than achievable. Draft for future best 22 needs in the top 40. Draft for depth afterwards. If you need a quality small forward but have a few okay ones don’t draft one at pick 60 - Wait 12 months and draft one at at Pick 12.

 

[Spirit Level]

I'd definitely be targeting more wingers so we can eventually let NOD loose on the ball. I think his ceiling is as an inside/outside beast and gives us the explosiveness that Serong/AB/MJ/Raz lack as a group. in fact I'd like to see Brayshaw and NOD eventually swap roles.

I've been thinking about this a bit since you mentioned it before.

The thought of NOD developing into a JDG type beast intrigues me. Would definitely allow Brayshaw to utilise his power running up and down the wing with stints through the middle

 

[freo_leo29]

ATM we’ve got one inside mid playing at Peel this week. Johnson is the only inside mid unavailable. We’re also playing a midfielder short at AFL level imo.

There simply isn’t enough mids for this list to compete for a flag. There should be 2-3 midfielders outside the best 22 at Peel that are ready to go if needed. JOM ain’t very young either.

We should still be aiming to get this squad back on track in the next 2-3 years imo. If we add the right players through draft and trade it’s more than achievable. Draft for future best 22 needs in the top 40. Draft for depth afterwards. If you need a quality small forward but have a few okay ones don’t draft one at pick 60 - Wait 12 months and draft one at at Pick 12.

It is interesting that we chopped Blakely, crowden and Mundy retired then only brought in JOM (quick edit: can include Tucker here too actually)

Yet we lost Lobb and Meek but replaced them with Jackson, Knobel, Reidy and to an extent Corbett


Maybe we should have kept Western in the end, would have liked to see him in his natural midfield position, was never a forward

 

[mightymouse75]

H

It is interesting that we chopped Blakely, crowden and Mundy retired then only brought in JOM (quick edit: can include Tucker here too actually)

Yet we lost Lobb and Meek but replaced them with Jackson, Knobel, Reidy and to an extent Corbett


Maybe we should have kept Western in the end, would have liked to see him in his natural midfield position, was never a forward

How's he going this year ?

 

[Hazelsnuts]

If West Coast delist Jack Williams after two seasons with his first one injured a bit and his second one derailed with a ruptured spleen in the preseason we should look at him. Not sure his speed and agility is enough, but if he is a marking target and an honest lead and mark player we could use that up and down the line.

I rated him as a football smarter Tabs…
Think he could be a cheap pickup to rookie

 

[freo_leo29]

H
How's he going this year ?

Looks to be playing the same forward role at Claremont, can't say I've watched any Tigers games tbh

 

[Docker82]

It is interesting that we chopped Blakely, crowden and Mundy retired then only brought in JOM (quick edit: can include Tucker here too actually)

Yet we lost Lobb and Meek but replaced them with Jackson, Knobel, Reidy and to an extent Corbett


Maybe we should have kept Western in the end, would have liked to see him in his natural midfield position, was never a forward

Add in Kuek in the Mid Season Draft as well. On top of drafting Amiss and Benning the year before and not delisting as talls in 2021 either.

IMO we should be using top 40 picks on future best 22 players and adding to our depth later on. That doesn’t mean drafting players that’ll never be more than depth - it just means drafting players where you only need depth. If you get a Michael Walters or Lachie Neale from a pick in the 50s you put them into your best 22 anyway and its a real bonus.

What we’ve done instead is draft ‘best available’ often in positions we barely need then draft for needs later. We were basically playing ‘best available’ bingo whilst barely, if ever, adequately addressing our most prominent list needs. We’ve always had way too many of a certain type of player on our list only for the higher picks and maybe one other being still on the list four years later.

We’re about to delist most of the tall forwards on our list in the next 12-24 months and hopefully draft actual high end KPFs then continue to play catch up in other areas. Most of those KPFs that’ll be delisted shouldn’t have been added to the list in the first place.

 

[Taylor]

...but we need a key forward?

 

[Docker82]

...but we need a key forward?

If you look at forwards and rucks on our list in the last two years:

We added Amiss, Benning, Kuek, Jackson, Corbett, Knobel, Reidy (7 players)

We lost Lobb, Meek (2 players)

I mean we needed a key forward and we probably needed rucks and I’m happy to carry extra players in areas of concern but c’mon effectively adding five extra of these to our in two years is beyond a joke.

It’s no different to what we did with KPDs and rucks around 2017/2018 and HBFs around (2020/2021). Let’s at what happened between 2015 and 2020:

KPDs: (Pearce still on the list as well)
Logue - pick 8 - North Melbourne
Cox - pick 40-odd - Freo
Hamling - traded for pick 40-odd - Freo
Collins - pick 55ish - delisted, now at Gold Coast
Uebergang - rookie - delisted

Rucks:
Darcy - pick 35ish - Freo
Meek - pick 70-odd - Hawthorn
Jones - pick 80-odd - delisted
Strnadica- rookie - delisted

HBFs/small defenders:
Young - pick 6 - Freo
Chapman- pick 15ish - Freo
Clark - traded for pick 20ish - Freo
Wilson - traded for pick 20ish - Freo
Walker - pick 50ish (NGA) - Freo
Ryan - pick 65ish - Freo
Duman - rookie - delisted
Watson - rookie - delisted
Nyhuis - rookie - delisted

See a theme here? Only difference to the above is we need two good KPFs and we’ve only used one pick inside 40.

Meanwhile we’ve had other successes late in the draft where we didn’t massively overdo it.

Just delist the KPFs that won’t make it and use our best pick on a KPF. No need to draft more longshots. No need to have 7 KPFs on the list. It is unlikely to help us find a good one.

 

[jinxd]

I’d argue that we need another big strong midfielder (like Fyfe & Johnson). One that pushes opponents out of the way, tackles and shepherds. Let Serong and Brayshaw grab n go from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[maccamk]

I’d argue that we need another big strong midfielder (like Fyfe & Johnson). One that pushes opponents out of the way, tackles and shepherds. Let Serong and Brayshaw grab n go from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you watch Ras? Will be a bull.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Superkoops]

Brockman had serious injury issues the last few years I believe and there wouldnt be many teams where you have worse time being a small forward than Hawks at the moment. Watching Hawks games, Brockman seems a talent and I'd love to bring him for the cost IMO

Wasn’t overly impressed by Brockman. Maybe I’ve missed his good games but just run of mill for mine. Perhaps on the cheap but I don’t think he or Jeremy Sharp are trade options that I would be overly concerned about whether they come or don’t.

 

[Taylor]

I think he, Brockman, could replace Walters long term but with more speed and less elite kick.

 

[jinxd]

Did you watch Ras? Will be a bull.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yeh, not yet though… He’ll get there.. we need more size & strength now.

 

[freo_leo29]

I think he, Brockman, could replace Walters long term but with more speed and less elite kick.

Sturt should get that role

 

[Dockeroo]

Not seeing the hype on Brockman at all guys.
Granted his teammates were putrid last night but jeez it’s a bit of an insult to Sonny Walters to be comparing Brockman to him. Brockman looked more like Liam Henry than Sonny there last night TBH and that’s not a compliment.

That Hawks side is possibly one of the worst teams I’ve ever seen at AFL level.
At least 10 of that side are state league players at best.

 

[Joao]

I'm firmly of the belief we have enough 'role-player' quality forwards (well every position really). Is Brockman going to be significantly better than Switta or Schultz?

We lack forward star power and you typically don't get that for chips unless you are taking baggage with it.

 

[rgauci]

I'm firmly of the belief we have enough 'role-player' quality forwards (well every position really). Is Brockman going to be significantly better than Switta or Schultz?

We lack forward star power and you typically don't get that for chips unless you are taking baggage with it.

Jackson slowly developing into star power.

His forward craft is improving. Moved well yesterday. Jackson / Amiss / Treacy…. That’s my trio.

 

[Joao]

Jackson slowly developing into star power.

His forward craft is improving. Moved well yesterday. Jackson / Amiss / Treacy…. That’s my trio.

Yeah maybe, he's hard to place because I still think his best stuff isn't in the forwardline. I think it will take quality coaching to get the most out of him.

 

[Schauermann]

List is ok, but nearly nobody really is in good form. If that changes it will lock a lot better. Good signs today but we played the 18th team today. Smashing them is no real credit. Really no idea how to fix this. Don't think list management is the real problem. If we can't get our current list to work we are hopeless somehow...

 

[Pommie Docker]

If you look at forwards and rucks on our list in the last two years:

We added Amiss, Benning, Kuek, Jackson, Corbett, Knobel, Reidy (7 players)

We lost Lobb, Meek (2 players)

I mean we needed a key forward and we probably needed rucks and I’m happy to carry extra players in areas of concern but c’mon effectively adding five extra of these to our in two years is beyond a joke.

It’s no different to what we did with KPDs and rucks around 2017/2018 and HBFs around (2020/2021). Let’s at what happened between 2015 and 2020:

KPDs: (Pearce still on the list as well)
Logue - pick 8 - North Melbourne
Cox - pick 40-odd - Freo
Hamling - traded for pick 40-odd - Freo
Collins - pick 55ish - delisted, now at Gold Coast
Uebergang - rookie - delisted

Rucks:
Darcy - pick 35ish - Freo
Meek - pick 70-odd - Hawthorn
Jones - pick 80-odd - delisted
Strnadica- rookie - delisted

HBFs/small defenders:
Young - pick 6 - Freo
Chapman- pick 15ish - Freo
Clark - traded for pick 20ish - Freo
Wilson - traded for pick 20ish - Freo
Walker - pick 50ish (NGA) - Freo
Ryan - pick 65ish - Freo
Duman - rookie - delisted
Watson - rookie - delisted
Nyhuis - rookie - delisted

See a theme here? Only difference to the above is we need two good KPFs and we’ve only used one pick inside 40.

Meanwhile we’ve had other successes late in the draft where we didn’t massively overdo it.

Just delist the KPFs that won’t make it and use our best pick on a KPF. No need to draft more longshots. No need to have 7 KPFs on the list. It is unlikely to help us find a good one.

I couldn't agree more and this is really well put. The only position I would disagree with is ruck as I think that can be a bit of crab shoot and 2 from four is pretty good going with the low picks.

I hope the club learns from it's mistakes and doesn't just blindly follow best available when we have glaring holes. Ultimately the return on logue was awful, years to develop and then traded for pittance.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Not seeing the hype on Brockman at all guys.
Granted his teammates were putrid last night but jeez it’s a bit of an insult to Sonny Walters to be comparing Brockman to him. Brockman looked more like Liam Henry than Sonny there last night TBH and that’s not a compliment.

That Hawks side is possibly one of the worst teams I’ve ever seen at AFL level.
At least 10 of that side are state league players at best.

Hawks have been in games for the most part the last month and they didn’t have Lewis. The WC and North teams of the last month are significantly worse IMO. Some of what North is putting out beggars belief after what they dished up against us