List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Scham]

I'm firmly of the belief we have enough 'role-player' quality forwards (well every position really). Is Brockman going to be significantly better than Switta or Schultz?

We lack forward star power and you typically don't get that for chips unless you are taking baggage with it.

You're right although I think Brockman offers more goal sense than Switta and Schultz and would be reasonably cheap. He'd be good value. Motlop offers more class but will cost us. if we want quality it'll need to be via the draft or we pay a high price in a trade. But all that is obvious and should go without saying.

 

[Taylor]

To me, Brockman would be the damaging small forward with speed, but isn't small either. Motlop isn't fast enough to play the agility game in my view.

 

[Joao]

You're right although I think Brockman offers more goal sense than Switta and Schultz and would be reasonably cheap. He'd be good value. Motlop offers more class but will cost us. if we want quality it'll need to be via the draft or we pay a high price in a trade. But all that is obvious and should go without saying.

Small forwards don't require top 5 picks for absolute quality, you can find them all throughout the first round.

The problem with Brockman is that we don't have any room for him without dropping Switta, Schultz and Freddy if we also want to add some top end to the forwardline as well. So he'd need to be at least as good as Sonny as that's whose spot he is taking long term.

 

[Taylor]

Small forwards don't require top 5 picks for absolute quality, you can find them all throughout the first round.

The problem with Brockman is that we don't have any room for him without dropping Switta, Schultz and Freddy if we also want to add some top end to the forwardline as well. So he'd need to be at least as good as Sonny as that's whose spot he is taking long term.

That's the exact spot we need to fill. Long term on Walters could be as short as the rest of this year.

I hope not, but it's realistic

 

[Docker82]

I couldn't agree more and this is really well put. The only position I would disagree with is ruck as I think that can be a bit of crab shoot and 2 from four is pretty good going with the low picks.

I hope the club learns from it's mistakes and doesn't just blindly follow best available when we have glaring holes. Ultimately the return on logue was awful, years to develop and then traded for pittance.

My point was more how many we had of each type of player at the time. That and who we drafted higher stayed on the list literally every single time.

We might’ve drafted Darcy, Strnadica, Meek and Jones but we also had Sandilands and Apeness on the list. Six rucks on the list was beyond a joke.

It didn’t help us replace Sandilands - ultimately the highest draft pick replaced Sandilands (Darcy), his back up (Meek) was the second highest draft pick and the later picks both only lasted two years each.

We’re talking different picks for different types of player too tbh. Very few good KPFs are drafted outside the top 25 - most that were are guys played in the ruck by their junior coaches. In contrast using a second rounder on a ruck shows a fair level of confidence.

 

[wakojako]

Very few good KPFs are drafted outside the top 25 - most that were are guys played in the ruck by their junior coaches. In contrast using a second rounder on a ruck shows a fair level of confidence.

I reckon Treacy is gone end of year, we haven't managed him very well. This year is the latest we can draft a KPF if our premiership is around 2026-2028. Because we don't have a first rounder, we will need to trade a KPF in. Literally the only option we have is Naughton and if he doesn't want to come/price tag is too high than we are screwed.

 

[BStaff17]

Not seeing the hype on Brockman at all guys.
Granted his teammates were putrid last night but jeez it’s a bit of an insult to Sonny Walters to be comparing Brockman to him. Brockman looked more like Liam Henry than Sonny there last night TBH and that’s not a compliment.

That Hawks side is possibly one of the worst teams I’ve ever seen at AFL level.
At least 10 of that side are state league players at best.

Yeah they were putrid.

Mitchell being a club legend is interesting because most coaches don't survive the long hard rebuilds once they are undertaken its always the 2nd or 3rd coach if the rebuild is successful that cashes in.

How patient will Hawthorn be.

 

[Docker82]

I reckon Treacy is gone end of year, we haven't managed him very well. This year is the latest we can draft a KPF if our premiership is around 2026-2028. Because we don't have a first rounder, we will need to trade a KPF in. Literally the only option we have is Naughton and if he doesn't want to come/price tag is too high than we are screwed.

Should do all we can to keep Treacy imo. The odd KPF does come from later - he probably should’ve been a late 2nd/3rd tbh but covid through clubs ratings of players way out of whack.

At the end of the end though we should be using our first pick on a KPF. Pick 21/22 or whatever it ends up being is late for a good KPF but it’s been done and they are talking up this draft as one with a lot of quality KPFs. It it takes trading our future 2nd to move up five spots in the draft then so be it - get the right player and we won’t care we lost that pick.

 

[Taylor]

I reckon Treacy is gone end of year, we haven't managed him very well. This year is the latest we can draft a KPF if our premiership is around 2026-2028. Because we don't have a first rounder, we will need to trade a KPF in. Literally the only option we have is Naughton and if he doesn't want to come/price tag is too high than we are screwed.

My position on Treacy has changed over the year. I was hoping to see more progression out of him in regards to marking, I think the rest of his game is already where it needs to be - he just needed to take some more grabs and he would be set for a long lucrative career.

That would have been wonderful for him but a big problem for us in regards to external interest in him.

Currently, I don't feel like there will be clubs knocking the door down to get him.

He absolutely should be taking a long term deal from anyone at this point, if anyone puts three years or more in front of him he should take it before the paper hits the table.

But Fremantle should only be offering him two years... and that should be paid at the rate for a player who will play half the games in a year. He has spent three years on the rookie list and will need to either be elevated to the primary list or delisted and selected again as a rookie - I think that second option is a terrible idea.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah they were putrid.

Mitchell being a club legend is interesting because most coaches don't survive the long hard rebuilds once they are undertaken its always the 2nd or 3rd coach if the rebuild is successful that cashes in.

How patient will Hawthorn be.

Hawthorn need only to the add a handful of role players to their existing side, mature bodies that can run and apply pressure but that's about it - cheap players who will lock down opposition ball movement with maximum effort running.

They will become immediately more competitive, but it will put a cap on their side as they will stop scooping the elite talent from early in the draft.

Mitchell knows this, they pushed out O'Meara and Mitchell and will push out Wingard this year. If the board say "time to win now Sam" he will direct the list management team to buy the likes of Schultz, raid Richmond for role players, perhaps St Kilda for some scraps and they will win 10 games in 2024 - which will seem like a big improvement.

 

[Joao]

That's the exact spot we need to fill. Long term on Walters could be as short as the rest of this year.

I hope not, but it's realistic

100% and I think Brockman is a way off Sonny even now, let alone at his peak. Not sure he gets near it at his peak either.

 

[millsy]

I reckon Treacy is gone end of year, we haven't managed him very well. This year is the latest we can draft a KPF if our premiership is around 2026-2028. Because we don't have a first rounder, we will need to trade a KPF in. Literally the only option we have is Naughton and if he doesn't want to come/price tag is too high than we are screwed.

I thought it was a perfect chance to leave him out there for four quarters last night and see if he could build.

He did some good stuff, thought he presented at the ball, opened up some holes in the forward third, complemented our other forwards (namely Amiss) pretty well.

But he dropped a couple that he just has to take to make it, got worked off the ball by smaller opponents a couple of times, etc.

I'm a fan, but agree if he can't get a decent block of games in pretty shortly it's hard to know where he's at.

 

[Taylor]

100% and I think Brockman is a way off Sonny even now, let alone at his peak. Not sure he gets near it at his peak either.

I think if you swapped them last night Sonny has a worse game for them than Brockman would for us. There's a fair bit of foreplay required for a small forward who doesn't play midfield minutes to impact the contest and his side were not making it remotely easy.

Brockman had more score involvements than Walters last night, just to contribute to that point.

 

[Joao]

I think if you swapped them last night Sonny has a worse game for them than Brockman would for us. There's a fair bit of foreplay required for a small forward who doesn't play midfield minutes to impact the contest and his side were not making it remotely easy.

Brockman had more score involvements than Walters last night, just to contribute to that point.

I'll stand by it, I don't think Brockman has Walters class.

Hopefully he comes here and embarrasses me.

 

[Taylor]

I'll stand by it, I don't think Brockman has Walters class.

Hopefully he comes here and embarrasses me.

Ooooo we butt heads again.

We were right about Hogan and Jackson is up in the air still. I'll double down on Brockman.

 

[Taylor]

I should add that the price to trade in a player like Brockman is cheap this year and should he come on as I expect/hope next year will be far more. So if you want value, you need to buy when the signs are there but the team performance isn't allowing the full ability to show through.

 

[Scham]

Small forwards don't require top 5 picks for absolute quality, you can find them all throughout the first round.

The problem with Brockman is that we don't have any room for him without dropping Switta, Schultz and Freddy if we also want to add some top end to the forwardline as well. So he'd need to be at least as good as Sonny as that's whose spot he is taking long term.

Dare I say it, Brockman would be a much, much better option in the side than Banfield. That's the spot he takes initially, plus will Walters be with us next year? If so, how many games will he be available for. Brockman or Motlop will be the Walters replacement eventually.

 

[Scham]

100% and I think Brockman is a way off Sonny even now, let alone at his peak. Not sure he gets near it at his peak either.

Aiming to get someone as good as Walters is the right thing to do, harder to pull of though.

 

[Taylor]

Aiming to get someone as good as Walters is the right thing to do, harder to pull of though.

It's easier if you're allowed to draft a player who would be considered lazy or fat and not lose your job over that selection. You will find more elite kicks with the football brains and creativity in the group considered to be subpar professionals, they might not even be included in the U18s squad. You might need to pick them out of the PSA.

The dream would be to find a player in the ammos who is nineteen or twenty, works a trade but drinks too much - has a child and a dream. He has something to work for, already used to being uncomfortable and has talent to burn.

But again, you'll lose your job for pushing that player over a private school kid driven to practice by their mother every week who meets the skin folds/eye test for an athlete.

It would make an interesting movie though. Pretty sure that sort of film has been made with Sandra Bullock or Dwayne Johnson.

 

[Docker82]

Aiming to get someone as good as Walters is the right thing to do, harder to pull of though.

If you’re serious about replacing Walters with someone of his quality you use a top 25 pick.

We’ll have a top 25 this year (a 2nd) and next year (a 1st) at the very least. I think we’ll be a better side next year so I don’t our second rounder next year will be in that range - should still be a reasonable pick around 30 after bids etc though.

Not against having a crack with North’s 3rd this year as well as long as we don’t ignore it next year (unless it’s pretty obvious said player is a steal by then of course). I think we delist Colyer at year’s end and maybe even Sturt as well (I wouldn’t delist Sturt tbh) so there’s room for probably two to three small/medium forwards over a two year period without overdoing it.

 

[Superkoops]

To me, Brockman would be the damaging small forward with speed, but isn't small either. Motlop isn't fast enough to play the agility game in my view.

Out of the two I would prefer Motlop. I don’t mind Brockman I just don’t know that he is what we really need. Motlop is only in his second season. He isn’t super quick but he has good agility and great goal sense.

Brockman to me seems more of half forward that drops back to the i50. I spotted him in the backline a few times.

I agree with a couple of others that there isn’t the point of difference to what we have already. If he wants to come to Freo and is low cost (like F3/F4) then no issues let’s add him because our depth needs improving.

I actually like what I’ve seen from Emmett but he is more medium tall and a small forward is needed.

We need outside run.

We have added inside mids Erasmus and MJ and both are developing. We also added Brodie who is trying to find his mojo this year.

NOD is going to be a good wingman. We need another. Dylan Stephens has been mentioned and if he became interested then absolutely. Sam Flanders could be another. Sharp can’t get a game and from what I’ve seen is no better than those we have running around with Peel.

 

[Taylor]

Brockman to me seems more of half forward that drops back to the i50. I spotted him in the backline a few times.

He certainly does have a very good work rate for a forward. Top five for Hawks in score involvements. Equal second in goal assists from nine disposals in a side that only had 13 score events and the third lowest time on ground for the Hawks.

He's coming back from missing most of a season with a busted shoulder, but I think he is a very high impact player going so far under the radar at the moment it's making Kevin Bacon nervous.

The board wanted a low cost, high reward option to improve the team - I give you Tyler Brockman. He has the weapons, the workrate and a local without the exposure of his talents to warrant the high trade price.

 

[gungho]

Watched the game last night and Brockman seems talented to me - particularly with the lack of opportunities. I think it is easy in here to fall into the trap of overrating your own. With his skill set and speed, brockman at worst should be a 150 game afl player. (Probably can’t say the same for Henry at this stage).

 

[maccamk]

I reckon Treacy is gone end of year, we haven't managed him very well. This year is the latest we can draft a KPF if our premiership is around 2026-2028. Because we don't have a first rounder, we will need to trade a KPF in. Literally the only option we have is Naughton and if he doesn't want to come/price tag is too high than we are screwed.

We don’t need another A Grade tall forward. Given 2 more years development Amiss and Jackson will be stars for us. We need a Chris Mayne type serviceable third tall to compliment Amiss and Jackson.

This could be Sturt, Corbett or Treacy or we could look to trade in players similar to Dersken and Riccardi who can’t get games at GWS. We could also trade into the late first round to get you Van Rooyen.

I’m more concerned about replacing Walters in the next year or 2.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[wakojako]

We don’t need another A Grade tall forward. Given 2 more years development Amiss and Jackson will be stars for us. We need a Chris Mayne type serviceable third tall to compliment Amiss and Jackson.

This could be Sturt, Corbett or Treacy or we could look to trade in players similar to Dersken and Riccardi who can’t get games at GWS. We could also trade into the late first round to get you Van Rooyen.

I’m more concerned about replacing Walters in the next year or 2.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

If you watched the game last night you would realise that Jackson's best work is up the ground not I50. He is a versatile midfielder not a key forward. If you can't find a partner for Amiss than you need a mid sized forward that will kick 30-40 goals a season.