List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

Anyone who watched the WA U 18s knew Allen was a beauty.

An undersized marking flanker, yes. 191.1cm tall. I remember it well.

 

[WilloTree]

If we had drafted him I would still be waiting for his break out into his full potential.

Oscar Allen was one of the players that made me rethink the idea that key forwards had to be close to 2m. There were others along the way obviously. Pav was handy.

I now go with - if you're good enough, you're tall enough.

 

[WilloTree]

An undersized marking flanker, yes. 191.1cm tall. I remember it well.

He played the closest KPF to gaol in every game. At no time was he a 'flank'. He was literally WAs best 'tall' forward, which is why people were hung up on him being undersize. The kids a 197cm beast now. Pretty valuable lesson actually.

 

[Taylor]

Oscar Allen was one of the players that made me rethink the idea that key forwards had to be close to 2m. There were others along the way obviously. Pav was handy.

I now go with - if you're good enough, you're tall enough.

You'd maybe remember Mark LeCras having a pretty good year as the key forward role at the Eagles when the regulars were injured. Lead and mark and goal. They didn't do so well but he is very talented.

The issue for Allen was that being a key forward style player with a smaller body would see him moved out of the primary roles, a third tall without the ground ball game. He was a risky prospect who could have been stuck in between roles where the coach might prefer a resting ruck for a marking target or a extra midfielder for a flank role.

It's worked out wonderfully for West coast so far and he will look great when we get him as a free agent in a couple of years.

 

[Taylor]

He played the closest KPF to gaol in every game. At no time was he a 'flank'. He was literally WAs best 'tall' forward, which is why people were hung up on him being undersize. The kids a 197cm beast now. Pretty valuable lesson actually.

His size makes him a flank. Just like Zac Fisher was an inside mid and became a small forward because of his size.

Oscar grew, Zac didn't.

 

[WilloTree]

You'd maybe remember Mark LeCras having a pretty good year as the key forward role at the Eagles when the regulars were injured. Lead and mark and goal. They didn't do so well but he is very talented.

The issue for Allen was that being a key forward style player with a smaller body would see him moved out of the primary roles, a third tall without the ground ball game. He was a risky prospect who could have been stuck in between roles where the coach might prefer a resting ruck for a marking target or a extra midfielder for a flank role.

It's worked out wonderfully for West coast so far and he will look great when we get him as a free agent in a couple of years.

That would be cheeky as hell. He'll never leave West Coast though.

His size makes him a flank. Just like Zac Fisher was an inside mid and became a small forward because of his size.

Oscar grew, Zac didn't.

I've heard this line draft watchers use when talking about players who are hard to place due to their size. There was a lot of uncertainty about Bont and Fyfe due to being between mid-size and KP size. Cripps as well. They all worked out OK. Tom Lamb...not so much.

 

[Taylor]

That would be cheeky as hell. He'll never leave West Coast though.

I've heard this line draft watchers use when talking about players who are hard to place due to their size. There was a lot of uncertainty about Bont and Fyfe due to being between mid-size and KP size. Cripps as well. They all worked out OK. Tom Lamb...not so much.

I think most players of that size tend to struggle because there's an accepted level of pedestrian pace for a guy who is tall that just isn't there for almost all the smaller guys.

Fyfe the tall twig who could mark everything. Cripps the big guy who couldn't run, still isn't much for pace but gets the elbows going to look like he is.

Both found elite ball winning.

A current player who will find himself in the same in between place is young Ed Allen. Another big runner mid, quick enough but tall as a key forward. He will need to find his elite.

Mason Wood needed to find a niche running, I'm still not sure he can run a whole season on the wing.

 

[groggm]

No doubt you are being facetious here as Allen will have a lifetime contract with WC for the next 10 years at 1m+ given what he has shown so far, given the resources they also have - but its definitely a lesson to be learnt not to underrate these WA 190cm~ 'undersize' types who are capable of taking a grab (see: van rooyen..darling?) Hopefully we can capitalise on this next time around given these players seem to invariably drift to late first round picks.

 

[Ysaye]

My understanding was that we were interested in Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

and did a lot of homework on him, but we ended up with two top 5 picks which was not in his range, which I still hold to be the correct decision. Had we had a late top 10 pick he may have been in a spot to be picked by us.

 

[rgauci]

Eh, he was definitely talked about for our 2nd pick

Amiss wasn't even near our first pick until a month before the draft, then he moved up the boards

Amiss had a 61 (?) goal year under 18’s campaign as a colt. I think he was always rated very highly.

Interestingly Logan McDonald had a better under 18s year and finished quite high on the leading goal kickers in the WAFL league side.

Yet I wouldn’t swap Amiss for 3 McDonalds.

 

[Scham]

No doubt you are being facetious here as Allen will have a lifetime contract with WC for the next 10 years at 1m+ given what he has shown so far, given the resources they also have - but its definitely a lesson to be learnt not to underrate these WA 190cm~ 'undersize' types who are capable of taking a grab (see: van rooyen..darling?) Hopefully we can capitalise on this next time around given these players seem to invariably drift to late first round picks.

The big thing with Oscar is that he has a massive leap so plays tall. He was rucking in the West Perth Colts as a 16yo.

 

[freo_leo29]

Anyone who watched the WA U 18s knew Allen was a beauty.

All 18 clubs watched the WA u18s and he still slipped out of the first round

 

[freo_leo29]

Amiss had a 61 (?) goal year under 18’s campaign as a colt. I think he was always rated very highly.

Interestingly Logan McDonald had a better under 18s year and finished quite high on the leading goal kickers in the WAFL league side.

Yet I wouldn’t swap Amiss for 3 McDonalds.

Yeah not near is wrong but he was a mid to late first but then it became evident we were gonna have 6 and that would slide to 8 and he started moving up the board to match us


Fwiw I think tigers always take gibcus, the risk was if Carlton had the pick for gibcus either they take him or they trade to one of the 5 clubs trying to get up the board for him, leaving Richmond to take a wildcard pick before our pick 10

 

[WilloTree]

All 18 clubs watched the WA u18s and he still slipped out of the first round

It's a bit strange that the non-Vic talls tend to slide to that range. Van Rooyan, Darling, Allen, Hipwood, Himmelberg. I reckon those guys played at Sandy or the Jets they'd go top 10.

We're about to see it again with Edwards.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Totally agree re Johnson. He is still learning, but he is fitting in nicely.Knows how and where to find the ball. Already a Mundy clone.
Erasmus will sit comfortably within the ranks of our mid field as well.
Both will be driving the bus soon.

Hey, hey - they may be driving the bus soon…
But Freo had only had 1 bus driver….for those who remember- Shane Parker…ran with his arms out wide like he holding the steering wheel driving a bus….the original and best bus driver

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think it's worth separating that horrific troll bait of an article from Suma from the actual list management discussion. Given Jacksons performance around the ball, does anyone think we would be worse off in the medium to long term if we turned Darcy into Naughton? I think from a list perspective we'd be better off but Darcy seems an even more "heart and soul" guy than Logue and Acres and I think we've seen this year that you shoudlnt underate the impact of losing well loved players all the time. Losing Darcy would really hurt

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Has anyone monitored how Kalin Lane is going over at Brisbane?
Thought he could be a moneyball ruck …

 

[s_wd6]

I think it's worth separating that horrific troll bait of an article from Suma from the actual list management discussion. Given Jacksons performance around the ball, does anyone think we would be worse off in the medium to long term if we turned Darcy into Naughton? I think from a list perspective we'd be better off but Darcy seems an even more "heart and soul" guy than Logue and Acres and I think we've seen this year that you shoudlnt underate the impact of losing well loved players all the time. Losing Darcy would really hurt

I would not entertain it at all. We can kick a winning score without a major target up front as long as our midfield gets on top of things, and Darcy is a big part of that happening. If we had Naughton in our forward line this year I doubt we would be much better. I'm very much against getting him. We'd have to give up way too much, and it would almost certainly involve a key player leaving.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I would not entertain it at all. We can kick a winning score without a major target up front as long as our midfield gets on top of things, and Darcy is a big part of that happening. If we had Naughton in our forward line this year I doubt we would be much better. I'm very much against getting him. We'd have to give up way too much, and it would almost certainly involve a key player leaving.

I dont think that forwardline is ever going to be strong enough to win a flag without at least one more AA quality player, even if MJ and Ras come on as we hope or Jackson turns into prime Fyfe

 

[Taylor]

I would not entertain it at all. We can kick a winning score without a major target up front as long as our midfield gets on top of things, and Darcy is a big part of that happening. If we had Naughton in our forward line this year I doubt we would be much better.

It would be helpful moving the ball up field to have that marking power, Freo taking marks against Hawthorn between the arcs is what allowed the fast ball movement - but we have to run for that space.

I think WC will be trying to buy Tim English at almost any price for a long term contract, Dogs would prefer that happens this season before English is a free agent the following year - same as Sean Darcy and Brennan Cox.

Reality is if you're not going to sign them beyond their free agency year you should look at trading them the year prior when under contract to extract maximum value - especially if you're planning on being a side in the finals where a compensation pick won't be all that attractive.

Naughton isn't a free agent until end of 2025 and he isn't contracted for 2025 yet - similar situation to Tim English this year with Naughton next year except Naughton won't be contracted for another year.

I would like to sign both Sean Darcy and Brennan Cox this year, and Darcy's manager exploring market value now is a good sign to me that it is underway already, it would be negligent not to know what other offers could be prior to agreeing to one where you are.

 

[s_wd6]

It would be helpful moving the ball up field to have that marking power, Freo taking marks against Hawthorn between the arcs is what allowed the fast ball movement - but we have to run for that space.

I think WC will be trying to buy Tim English at almost any price for a long term contract, Dogs would prefer that happens this season before English is a free agent the following year - same as Sean Darcy and Brennan Cox.

Reality is if you're not going to sign them beyond their free agency year you should look at trading them the year prior when under contract to extract maximum value - especially if you're planning on being a side in the finals where a compensation pick won't be all that attractive.

Naughton isn't a free agent until end of 2025 and he isn't contracted for 2025 yet - similar situation to Tim English this year with Naughton next year except Naughton won't be contracted for another year.

I would like to sign both Sean Darcy and Brennan Cox this year, and Darcy's manager exploring market value now is a good sign to me that it is underway already, it would be negligent not to know what other offers could be prior to agreeing to one where you are.

We should absolutely not be trading for Naughton which he's still contracted for another year. Wait till he's out of contract if we want him so badly.

 

[Taylor]

Regarding Sumich's article suggesting Fyfe and Walters could go, I hope they do - I hope they get three year deals worth almost three million dollars each. Just set up for the rest of their lives. Happy for them. That's two first round picks or at worst picks to start the second round for Fremantle in this draft.

 

[Taylor]

We should absolutely not be trading for Naughton which he's still contracted for another year. Wait till he's out of contract if we want him so badly.

End of next season we should hopefully have our 2024 first round pick and 2025 first round pick available to do that too.

But if I were in Naughton's camp I would be looking for the free agency deal now from either club, one last contract now.
I would think the Dogs preference would be in order: Sign Naughton for 8 years, Trade Naughton this season, Trade Naughton next season when out of contract, Sign Naughton for one season to free agency.

 

[Dale147]

Carrot Farmer, full of crapola

 

[Wizard]

Carrot Farmer, full of crapola

So his management is shopping him while he is also shopping his management.

Seems legit.