List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Peter Wallis]

This is classic Freo, always looking afar and never developing our own.
McDonald would have to seek us out
and as a forward who would want to play in that system?
We were doing ok with the draft, if we
trade him it’s because we have rucks developing at Peel.

Love footy and talking about it hence the intrusion but I doubt McDonald would want to come back and leave Sydney. With Franklin retiring I would think that he would become the main KPF for years to come in a successful and developing team. I think Darcy to Sydney for a 1st rounder would make sense as Sydneys ruck stocks are thin, although I have heard they are after Tom De Koning. You would need to generate some picks in order to deal someone in, other than Darcy I don't see too many other options though.

 

[Taylor]

Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

at his best is so dominant it makes our entire team dominant, I'd rather not lose that potential.

 

[apuchar]

If Jackson can't find an alternative role, we may have no choice

 

[Alfonz]

Sean Darcy at his best is so dominant it makes our entire team dominant, I'd rather not lose that potential.

Our side with Darcy has never really been dominant. The odd thrashing of minnows doesn't count. We don't put good teams to the sword.

Brownlow votes might not be the best metric with the way votes go to mids, but anyway ... in the last 2 years Darcy has only polled votes against sides who finished 13th, 14th, 16th (2021) and 15th, 17th, 18th (2022). We even lost one of those games where he got 3 votes against Carlton. A couple of those his ruck stats were average but he kicked multiple goals.

Rucks don't make sides dominant. It's the least important position on the ground. WC won a flag when NN was injured, and Collingwood are way better off with Cameron (+ cap space) over Grundy. Richmond and Hawthorn dominated with rucks who could simply compete at a decent level.

If Jackson can not be a very good KPF or midfielder, then it is beyond insane to keep both Jackson and Darcy on the list.

You could make a strong case we would have been better off playing Meek as the #1 ruck and trading in Naughton instead of Jackson, and then trading Darcy for another forward/mid.

 

[Dockeroo]

It could have been even worse last October. We nearly gave up the North melb second rounder for Jeremy Sharp to that horrible basketcase known as the Gold Coast suns.
He had 13 touches in the reserves at the weekend for one of the worst sides in the comp if anyone is wondering.

This is the joke of an organisation that handed pick 7 plus Jack bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

to the reigning premier for nothing last season.
Sitting at 0-2 with Geelong to play next week and the saints the week after.
Some fcukin geniuses running that shitshow isn’t there

 

[King Tenz]

Our side with Darcy has never really been dominant. The odd thrashing of minnows doesn't count. We don't put good teams to the sword.

Brownlow votes might not be the best metric with the way votes go to mids, but anyway ... in the last 2 years Darcy has only polled votes against sides who finished 13th, 14th, 16th (2021) and 15th, 17th, 18th (2022). We even lost one of those games where he got 3 votes against Carlton. A couple of those his ruck stats were average but he kicked multiple goals.

Rucks don't make sides dominant. It's the least important position on the ground. WC won a flag when NN was injured, and Collingwood are way better off with Cameron (+ cap space) over Grundy. Richmond and Hawthorn dominated with rucks who could simply compete at a decent level.

If Jackson can not be a very good KPF or midfielder, then it is beyond insane to keep both Jackson and Darcy on the list.

You could make a strong case we would have been better off playing Meek as the #1 ruck and trading in Naughton instead of Jackson, and then trading Darcy for another forward/mid.

You're right. The only real exception to this was Max Gawn.

Teams don't need top line ruckman to be good and win flags, it's just better to spend the money elsewhere.

 

[Square Peg]

I don't agree that ruck is the least important position on the ground, at all. The reason I was not as upset as many to trade Lobb is how useless he was at rucking, it was a complete momentum killer every time he went into the ruck.
The last time we played North in Perth in round 8 last year Darcy had 44 taps and Brayshaw won 10 clearances. Both were well down on that on Saturday. Something has happened to Darcy and his ability to link with the midfield to generate clearances. Do we even have a ruck coach at the moment?

 

[apuchar]

It could have been even worse last October. We nearly gave up the North melb second rounder for Jeremy Sharp to that horrible basketcase known as the Gold Coast suns.
He had 13 touches in the reserves at the weekend for one of the worst sides in the comp if anyone is wondering.

This is the joke of an organisation that handed pick 7 plus Jack bowes to the reigning premier for nothing last season.
Sitting at 0-2 with Geelong to play next week and the saints the week after.
Some fcukin geniuses running that shitshow isn’t there

They have the same problem as gws They have to pay way overs to keep their non local players.

 

[Taylor]

Our side with Darcy has never really been dominant. The odd thrashing of minnows doesn't count. We don't put good teams to the sword.

Brownlow votes might not be the best metric with the way votes go to mids, but anyway ... in the last 2 years Darcy has only polled votes against sides who finished 13th, 14th, 16th (2021) and 15th, 17th, 18th (2022). We even lost one of those games where he got 3 votes against Carlton. A couple of those his ruck stats were average but he kicked multiple goals.

Rucks don't make sides dominant. It's the least important position on the ground. WC won a flag when NN was injured, and Collingwood are way better off with Cameron (+ cap space) over Grundy. Richmond and Hawthorn dominated with rucks who could simply compete at a decent level.

If Jackson can not be a very good KPF or midfielder, then it is beyond insane to keep both Jackson and Darcy on the list.

You could make a strong case we would have been better off playing Meek as the #1 ruck and trading in Naughton instead of Jackson, and then trading Darcy for another forward/mid.

Well, I notice that when Darcy is on top in the ruck our midfield tend to win far above their averages in clearances and we win those games. Conversely when Darcy comes up against a ruck that can either match his strength like Preuss or Witts we lose that clearance dominance, same for leaping rucks that avoid the strength battle entirely like Jackson, DeKoning.

It's my position that the ruck is the player that either wins you so much of the first contest of the game that everyone else performs better or you are attempting to mitigate that exact advantage from your opposition.

Having an elite ruck will win you more games, Sean Darcy can be that player. You can also build your game plan on roving to the dominant ruck's taps which is what I believe is happening to us at the moment.

It's very difficult to have set plays from stoppages when you aren't at all confident the ruck will put the ball where it needs to be, that's the gist of my position. Is it possible to have a great side without a half decent ruck? Yes, I'd argue it's a requirement because there aren't enough decent rucks for every side to have one and you can play a tall guy to tag the opposition tall guy and make sure he can't run the set plays with his midfield - playing a more reactive and contested ground game.

But if you have control of the ruck contest you can have a player like Switta just clear out immediately and run onto the loose ball, kick a goal.

 

[Taylor]

The entire competition had the off season to plan to negate Darcy's advantage, they saw in preseason what happened when they tried to play their own style against him. Now Darcy needs to work even harder because he is now getting the Crowley/Ling treatment. They will blanket him and reduce his advantage, sacrificing their own game and leaving it to the ground ball players to break even.

Unfortunately our mids are so used to silver service we aren't able to defend, let alone win, enough clearances without Darcy on top.

The same happened last season. We couldn't win the ball out of the middle, Darcy lifted, suddenly we control the stoppages and the ball flies towards our goal.

 

[andreww90]

It could have been even worse last October. We nearly gave up the North melb second rounder for Jeremy Sharp to that horrible basketcase known as the Gold Coast suns.
He had 13 touches in the reserves at the weekend for one of the worst sides in the comp if anyone is wondering.

This is the joke of an organisation that handed pick 7 plus Jack bowes to the reigning premier for nothing last season.
Sitting at 0-2 with Geelong to play next week and the saints the week after.
Some fcukin geniuses running that shitshow isn’t there

We are the last club to be throwing pot shots at other club’s recruiting and list management.

Got rid of two players who wanted to be here but Bells massive ego knew better and potentially another top 8 pick going to Melbourne by the end of the season.

 

[Lach72]

Logue is the only one that grates me.

He'd be handy now and we'd have the flexibility with Cox

 

[GingerDocker]

Logue is the only one that grates me.

He'd be handy now and we'd have the flexibility with Cox

Even in some hypothetical world, if we're contemplating playing Cox forward, we're ****ed.

 

[no_undie_mundie]

If Jackson can't come on as a forward then shipping Darcy off to get Naughton sounds good to me tbh

 

[ignoramus]

The entire competition had the off season to plan to negate Darcy's advantage, they saw in preseason what happened when they tried to play their own style against him. Now Darcy needs to work even harder because he is now getting the Crowley/Ling treatment. They will blanket him and reduce his advantage, sacrificing their own game and leaving it to the ground ball players to break even.

Unfortunately our mids are so used to silver service we aren't able to defend, let alone win, enough clearances without Darcy on top.

The same happened last season. We couldn't win the ball out of the middle, Darcy lifted, suddenly we control the stoppages and the ball flies towards our goal.

And with this a decent chunk of responsibility gets thrown on the mids (and mid-coach) to adjust quickly in game. When in the third quarter of a centre square smashing we're still seeing our players setting up on the outside, then reacting to the sharked tap by throwing themselves at the possessor, who is ready for the tackle and already quickfiring a hand ball to the next in line — when this is still happening in the third quarter, you gotta wonder what's going on in people's heads. Was the half-time message simply, "Great job everybody... except for you, Darcy. you need to lift"?

 

[manpurple]

If Jackson can't come on as a forward then shipping Darcy off to get Naughton sounds good to me tbh

Again with the 'pay the farm for the forward' thing. At this point by my count we are about 0 from like 5 or 6.

Seriously pick a year;

• 2017 - I can get on board with the gamble for Cerra. But I'll just leave this here. Naughton
• 2018 - trade out 6 and an R2 for Hogan, trade more first round stuff for Lobb (1 good year), Shultz is positive. Miss B King (at our pick and everyone knew he was going be good) and those port smalls.
• 2019 - draft 3 mids, overpay on Henry, miss Georgiades (from our back yard)
• 2020 - Ok draft for us but we started with a poor hand. (Thanks Henry). Prior to the points correction we were within range of MacDonald
• 2021 - Yay finally a R1 forward. But wait, selection committee time and... he's too young and green to play last year or this year.

 

[MakeshiftMartyr]

[*]2018 - trade out 6 and an R2 for Hogan, trade more first round stuff for Lobb (1 good year), Shultz is positive. Miss B King (at our pick and everyone knew he was going be good) and those port smalls.
-
[*]2020 - Ok draft for us but we started with a poor hand. (Thanks Henry). Prior to the points correction we were within range of MacDonald

These two are utter rubbish.

Ben King was seen as a KPD at the time, not a forward.

We were never within reach of McDonald. Ever.

 

[manpurple]

We were never within reach of McDonald. Ever.

I never thought so either, until a buddy pointed out that, not only did the points deficit from Henry push us back from 7 or 8 to 14, but we also traded a lot in 2019. At the 2019 draft we traded out of 2020 R2 to actually pay for Henry.

All's I'm saying is that NM was talking about trading. May or may not have been believable.

Surprise bid on Academy jet forces Freo into live trade scramble

 

[Docker82]

These two are utter rubbish.

Ben King was seen as a KPD at the time, not a forward.

We were never within reach of McDonald. Ever.

I recall wanting Todd Marshall instead of Griffin Logue tbh.

I'd be happy enough with Marshall and Amiss tbh. Marshall ain't no A Grader but he's solid.

I'm not going to claim that I didn't want us to do all those other things at the time - I did.

When we drafted Logue we had Pearce, Collins and Hamling. Seemed excessive drafting another KPD. Hindsight's wonderful but we also got Cox much later in the draft. Anyway we also had Johnson and Dawson on the list at the time so we had a little extra time to draft a KPD.

Should've been investigating in KPFs and mids early into a rebuild. They win you games. Wasn't overly keen on any of the mids at the time except guys picked before us.

 

[Scham]

Just get some natural forwards. Some goal kicking talent thatll create a score out of forward entries regardless of how the ball is delivered. **** me it's so obvious.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Logue is the only one that grates me.

He'd be handy now and we'd have the flexibility with Cox

As someone who has always said Cox is a great forward, I'm not gonna lie, watching him go forward for like all of 5 minutes and kicking more goals than any other KPF that game made me twitch just a little...

Really dont understand why the dude was supposedly so adamant he didnt like playing up there. It's ****ing free money as a Freo player. Him up front while still having Logue would be so much better than a lot of our other options.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Also, I'd just about sell me my soul for the ability to have future picks protected like in the NBA right now. While I'm still really confident we going to be better than this start suggests, the thought of handing over a top 5 pick to Melbourne makes me gag

 

[freo_leo29]

Logue is the only one that grates me.

He'd be handy now and we'd have the flexibility with Cox

Cox doesn't want to go forward

Honestly if we sent him forward I could see him going to the crows

 

[freo_leo29]

As someone who has always said Cox is a great forward, I'm not gonna lie, watching him go forward for like all of 5 minutes and kicking more goals than any other KPF that game made me twitch just a little...

Really dont understand why the dude was supposedly so adamant he didnt like playing up there. It's ******* free money as a Freo player. Him up front while still having Logue would be so much better than a lot of our other options.

Have you seen the delivery to the forward line,


Cox is playing ripping footy as a defender, why would he want to risk it all to go forward and cop a heap of shit if it fails


Fwiw I did always want coz to return forward but I'm settled now in having him hold up our defense, he has earnt the right

Who knows, if he sneaks AA this year then he may want to take the risk going forward in the future

 

[s_wd6]

Cox trained part time forward last year, but when it came to it we decided to throw griff there instead for some reason.

Had we switched it up last year we would still have Logue, and we could try it again this year.

But it’s just not feasible to do it now with no griff to back him up.