List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[fnerd]

The guy definitely should chose the NBA if he has the choice, will make a mind boggling amount of money

Haha that’s basically what he’s saying

 

[greatgatsby]

The only bloke ahead of Himmelberg in these discussions is Naughton, who is apparently a no-go. Himmelberg is way better than Georgiades and you can't compare him to a guy who's played two games. Himmelberg only goes back when GWS desperately need him to, i.e. when Taylor needs support. Otherwise he's their best (big-bodied) forward. While he sometimes looks laconic to outsiders, he's actually a competitive beast and durable (missed just half a dozen or so in 2020). If we had a chance, it would be a no-brainer to go hard at him. As Taylor points out, he fits the age profile perfectly.

 

[Outshined]

I'm ok with us going after someone like Himmelberg via FA purely to reduce the likelihood of another Hail Mary mega trade in 24/25.

In true Freo fashion we'll probably do said trade anyway but if we have a decent KPF to support Amiss maybe there's a chance Bell cools his jets. I can deal with a fail if it "only" costs salary cap space and not draft capital.

In semi-seriousness though I doubt Himmelberg even remotely considers coming here unless it's for an extortionate amount of money. Tbh if there's also even half a shout at Naughton as a FA the following year I'd rather sit tight and #trusttheprocess.

 

[groggm]

Wasnt his dad EX Sharks?

And he was our runner about 20 years ago

 

[PavlichsNeighbour]

What about Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

from the Dockers. Can he be our messiah KF? We do alright with converting South Australian Key Position defenders to forwards, right?

 

[Joose]

What about Brennan Cox from the Dockers. Can he be our messiah KF? We do alright with converting South Australian Key Position defenders to forwards, right?

We have our future kpfs already playing. Amiss and Jackson with Sebit and Treacy as backup. They just need to be developed. No more quick fixes needed.

 

[arsesmart]

I doubt we'll ever get a good free agent. Any decent name player wanting out of Melbourne will keep going north where they can play with relative obscurity. Short of paying like 50% more than anywhere else, why would they come here?

We'll also struggle to get WA free agents because both us and WC will fight tooth and nail to get them before the other one which will mean trading them in before they become free agents 99% of the time. The only ones we'll ever get are Conca level.

Of the few we've got Danyle Pearce was the most productive by far (104 games).

 

[Spirit Level]

Pretty sure he was the first ever free agent signing in the AFL was he not?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm ok with us going after someone like Himmelberg via FA purely to reduce the likelihood of another Hail Mary mega trade in 24/25.

In true Freo fashion we'll probably do said trade anyway but if we have a decent KPF to support Amiss maybe there's a chance Bell cools his jets. I can deal with a fail if it "only" costs salary cap space and not draft capital.

In semi-seriousness though I doubt Himmelberg even remotely considers coming here unless it's for an extortionate amount of money. Tbh if there's also even half a shout at Naughton as a FA the following year I'd rather sit tight and #trusttheprocess.

Dreams of getting Naughton as a FA are just dreams. I'm pretty sure he'd need to sign like a 1 year extension as it stands to make it to FA and the year he's out of contract and FA the Dogs would need to be like bottom 5 to even consider taking the FA compo over a trade anyway. If people want Naughton, we'll need to trade for him

 

[Taylor]

This is really poor from us IMO. We should have been all over this chance and we arent even mentioned

Magpies win race as 212cm dual-sport gun's preferred club

If Alex Condon chooses football over basketball then it will be at Collingwood

www.afl.com.au

The category B rookies do not have a contract limit and none of it is on the salary cap - so attracting a talent like that is literally able to be done by offering him $2,000,000 a season for two to three years prior to his required promotion to the primary list.

They can buy a top ten draft pick. Collingwood have more than enough money to do that.

 

[Superkoops]

From memory, he had a lot of forward promise as well and was touted as a possible top 10 pick, you keep tabs on those type of kids regardless of what position they play if you have the chance to get them for free on a cat B pick-up

We would have known all about Condon. Fact is he is a very good chance to go on with his basketball. He is Luke Travers Level of good. He is currently playing in the NBL1 East with the Basketball Centre of Excellence.

Read this article:

Wildcats Ink Exciting Local Talent

The Perth Wildcats have added to their burgeoning list of West Australian talent by signing exciting guard Ben Henshall on a two-year deal.

share.nbl.com.au

This young new Wildcats recruit Ben Henshall is going the NBL route whereas I understand that Condon is going College bball with the university of Florida. They are as we speak playing together.

If Condon doesn’t make it to the level he wishes he will consider AFL. He isn’t eligible until end of the 2024 and likely that won’t be enough time for him to make a considered decision on giving up on what is a very promising bball career. He is just going to College now and in the NBA they draft them as 21-23 year olds from College.

 

[Outshined]

Dreams of getting Naughton as a FA are just dreams. I'm pretty sure he'd need to sign like a 1 year extension as it stands to make it to FA and the year he's out of contract and FA the Dogs would need to be like bottom 5 to even consider taking the FA compo over a trade anyway. If people want Naughton, we'll need to trade for him

Agent Rory's on the case.





In all seriousness I take your point. I'm on the fence but that's likely a reflection of terrible trade fatigue and the fact I have very little faith in our ability to negotiate a reasonable deal, even from a position of relative strength.

 

[GingerDocker]

I really don't think we need to be contemplating many trades at all.

Maybe a money-ball bargain if one pops up, particularly a key back, but that's about it.

I know, as Freo fans, we have learned to live vicariously through both our trading and drafting, but that is not the case now. We have plenty of young, developing talent on the list, so it's time to pass the baton to the knobs up the road.

 

[Docker82]

I really don't think we need to be contemplating many trades at all.

Maybe a money-ball bargain if one pops up, particularly a key back, but that's about it.

I know, as Freo fans, we have learned to live vicariously through both our trading and drafting, but that is not the case now. We have plenty of young, developing talent on the list, so it's time to pass the baton to the knobs up the road.

I cannot agree with the first point due your last point tbh.

Darcy, Cox etc. aren't that young anymore. They're turning 25 this year. There's a few reasonably important players between 26 and 28 as well. Do we really want to see these players approach the back end of their career without a premiership if we can add an important piece that can contribute now?

One of the pieces we're talking about is a KPF which realistically could take five years to develop. Very much doubt we can pull another Amiss from outside the top 10 - it's possible but unlikely.

I don't want us to be scared of bringing gun players to our club because of past mistakes. More than happy to add players for the right price.

I don't rate 'moneyball' trades all that often tbh. The exception would be half decent players that are traded as salary dumps (Brodie, Aish). The rest of the 'moneyball' types we've traded in are duds and always were duds.

 

[Sturty2Hurty]

The only bloke ahead of Himmelberg in these discussions is Naughton, who is apparently a no-go. Himmelberg is way better than Georgiades and you can't compare him to a guy who's played two games. Himmelberg only goes back when GWS desperately need him to, i.e. when Taylor needs support. Otherwise he's their best (big-bodied) forward. While he sometimes looks laconic to outsiders, he's actually a competitive beast and durable (missed just half a dozen or so in 2020). If we had a chance, it would be a no-brainer to go hard at him. As Taylor points out, he fits the age profile perfectly.

I think GWS will match whatever the price is but damnnn Himmelberg would be a great get

 

[Superkoops]

I think GWS will match whatever the price is but damnnn Himmelberg would be a great get

Maybe but all reports from journalists indicate that GWS continue to sail close to the salary cap. I know all we got from Hogan was a third round pick but we had his salary removed and GWS re-signed on a new lower pa contract but one that was still reasonably substantial. We also have Hawks paying large portion of JOM (not sure if that ends this year or next) and Fyfe out of contract and if he re-signs will do so on much reduced salary terms.

 

[Taylor]

Maybe but all reports from journalists indicate that GWS continue to sail close to the salary cap. I know all we got from Hogan was a third round pick but we had his salary removed and GWS re-signed on a new lower pa contract but one that was still reasonably substantial. We also have Hawks paying large portion of JOM (not sure if that ends this year or next) and Fyfe out of contract and if he re-signs will do so on much reduced salary terms.

O'Meara's deal being paid from Hawks is strictly 2023, the remaining term of his previous deal with Hawthorn.

 

[Docker82]

I think everyone would agree with you on preferring Naughton, JVR, Georgiades.

As far as list management goes, we would be stepping out of the 2022 draft, the 2023 and 2024 draft to bring in one of those players on top of where we currently sit.

If the choice is between a player like Himmelberg offering a tall target forward and cover for key defender positions for three to four years plus a being able to dip into the 2023 and 2024 drafts I think our overall position could be better.

The value in Himmelberg to me is that he can play AFL football, offering a tall marking target who can play beside Amiss and then become more effective as Amiss takes the #1 opposition defender and all it would cost is salary cap.

We will have a player who can play forward and back as required without having to buy them with more draft picks, in the age range to fill that 2015 draft of which I think we have no players on our list remaining. We needed one of the tall forwards we drafted between 2013 and 2020 to be playing at AFL level each week and that hasn't worked out.

We've been burning ourselves trying to fill that void with trades, some very expensive, and now we have a nineteen year old key forward leading our attack.

The biggest issues I have with Himmelberg is that should we draft a key forward with some speed and a contested mark, he would have his position at risk forward. I don't know what his professionalism is like off the field and I wouldn't want to lose a 2nd round draft pick in free agency compensation should we lose a player end of the year because we brought in a free agent of our own, not when we are trading picks for Pickett.

I just don’t think he’s good enough as a KPF to play in a premiership forward line. Improvement for the sake of improvement doesn’t mean sh**e if we’re getting no closer to a flag imo.

I’d rather trade decent assets or go to draft to find a forward that may win us a flag rather than get Himmelberg just because he won’t cost us any draft picks.

 

[Docker82]

I think GWS will match whatever the price is but damnnn Himmelberg would be a great get

Would he? I’d want a better forward if we want to challenge for a flag tbh.

If we didn’t already have Jackson I wouldn’t mind the idea but we need a spearhead that can average 2+ goals a game. Himmelberg isn’t that. He’s a B Grader at best.

 

[Taylor]

I just don’t think he’s good enough as a KPF to play in a premiership forward line. Improvement for the sake of improvement doesn’t mean sh**e if we’re getting no closer to a flag imo.

I’d rather trade decent assets or go to draft to find a forward that may win us a flag rather than get Himmelberg just because he won’t cost us any draft picks.

In my opinion Himmelberg only needs to be better than our next available option for that role, either front or back, to change the outcomes of game significantly.

Fremantle is in the best group in the league for getting the ball inside fifty, we are just nearly the worst at turning that into scores. If we can play a tall who strictly never took a mark and instead brought it to ground to the advantage of the smalls resulting in a shot at goal - we are potentially a six goals a game better side and that player has kicked none of them.

Is Himmelberg a better player than Treacy in 2024? Maybe. And there's your value comparison. Himmelberg has more runs on the board, Treacy is significantly cheaper.

Who would you rather take over from Taberner 2024 onwards?

 

[Swiggy]

Wanted him instead of JOM last year tbh.

Haven’t watched Hawthorn this year tbh and probably won’t until they play us but JOM has been a disaster so far. Almost would’ve preferred trading Meek for their future fourth (in hindsight that pick become pick 45 which isn’t bad for Meek).

JOM been a disaster??? How? he went at 88% ball use Friday night. He hasn’t set the world on fire but saying it’s a disaster is a massive overreaction

 

[Docker82]

In my opinion Himmelberg only needs to be better than our next available option for that role, either front or back, to change the outcomes of game significantly.

Fremantle is in the best group in the league for getting the ball inside fifty, we are just nearly the worst at turning that into scores. If we can play a tall who strictly never took a mark and instead brought it to ground to the advantage of the smalls resulting in a shot at goal - we are potentially six goals a game better a side and that player has kicked none of them.

Is Himmelberg a better player than Treacy in 2024? Maybe. And there's your value comparison. Himmelberg has more runs on the board, Treacy is significantly cheaper.

Who would you rather take over from Taberner 2024 onwards?

Himmelberg averages one more score involvement per game this year than Taberner and I haven’t seen Taberner play this bad since around 2016.

We’d be no closer to a flag by recruiting Himmelberg. He’s no hack but he wouldn’t improve the team enough. I’m not interested in being slightly better if we’re still eliminated in the first two weeks of finals. That’s the best we’ll do unless we recruit an actual A Grade forward.

 

[Swiggy]

Himmelberg averages one more score involvement per game this year than Taberner and I haven’t seen Taberner play this bad since around 2016.

We’d be no closer to a flag by recruiting Himmelberg. He’s no hack but he wouldn’t improve the team enough. I’m not interested in being slightly better if we’re still eliminated in the first two weeks of finals. That’s the best we’ll do unless we recruit an actual A Grade forward.

Agree think the only thing that makes him a target is because he doesn’t cost any picks

 

[Taylor]

Himmelberg averages one more score involvement per game this year than Taberner and I haven’t seen Taberner play this bad since around 2016.

We’d be no closer to a flag by recruiting Himmelberg. He’s no hack but he wouldn’t improve the team enough. I’m not interested in being slightly better if we’re still eliminated in the first two weeks of finals. That’s the best we’ll do unless we recruit an actual A Grade forward.

I put it to you that the difference between making the finals at all and not is a regular B grade tall forward who also has the ability to cover the defensive posts - which we are in real trouble with right at the moment.

I don't think we need a match winner tall forward, we produce enough opportunity. We just need someone at the drop of the ball to compete.

And it isn't like we have a 25 year old Lance Franklin we are looking past to pick up Himmleberg who was kicking 38 goals in a grand final year. Of course we would prefer Naughton or a young Tom Hawkins, one of the Kings but that isn't discussing viable options. Adding Himmelberg to the roster is adding a player to the top portion of the stack. It's replacing Rory Lobb as a forward with just money, not missing out on first round picks for three years in a row.

Rory Lobb kicked 36 in his best season for us, Himmelberg has done that or better twice. Taberner's best season was 37 goals.

I see him as the player that plays in the shadow of Amiss in a couple of years but will protect us from having to play an untried rookie as a key defender.

 

[Jezzitizle]

In my opinion Himmelberg only needs to be better than our next available option for that role, either front or back, to change the outcomes of game significantly.

Fremantle is in the best group in the league for getting the ball inside fifty, we are just nearly the worst at turning that into scores. If we can play a tall who strictly never took a mark and instead brought it to ground to the advantage of the smalls resulting in a shot at goal - we are potentially a six goals a game better side and that player has kicked none of them.

Is Himmelberg a better player than Treacy in 2024? Maybe. And there's your value comparison. Himmelberg has more runs on the board, Treacy is significantly cheaper.

Who would you rather take over from Taberner 2024 onwards?

A tall forward who doesn’t take marks?

Sounds like our scouting brief alright!

Where does the 6 goals come from?