List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Worm4]

I would offer west coast McGovern , fisher and Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

for the number 1 pick to start with
They need experienced players , not a newbie who won't hang around for more than 2 years.

 

[FRUMPY]

I would offer west coast McGovern , fisher and Jack Martin for the number 1 pick to start with
They need experienced players , not a newbie who won't hang around for more than 2 years.

You can offer that but no-one is going to take it. That is a terrible deal for any other team. i mean, seriously.....

 

[Beyond Blue]

I would offer west coast McGovern , fisher and Jack Martin for the number 1 pick to start with
They need experienced players , not a newbie who won't hang around for more than 2 years.

Any deal for West Coasts first would have to involve as a minimum Cripps and two first round picks (our first from this year and next year), and probably Motlop too.

What you’ve proposed above would be lucky get us their third round pick let alone their first pick, which is likely to be the first pick overall.

 

[FRUMPY]

Any deal for West Coasts first would have to involve as a minimum Cripps and two first round picks (our first from this year and next year), and probably Motlop too.

What you’ve proposed above would be lucky get us their third round pick let alone their first pick, which is likely to be the first pick overall.

What was proposed should include us giving them our first round draft pick and getting nothing in return - only way we get rid of those players

Cripps is an intersting one - he is 28 and will be 29 at years end. I dont see him getting any better and will only start to decline (if it hasnt begun already). I fear in a year or two it could be a sharp decline. He is signed to 2027 (i said at the time it was too long a contract).

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I would offer west coast McGovern , fisher and Jack Martin for the number 1 pick to start with
They need experienced players , not a newbie who won't hang around for more than 2 years.

They will get offers of multiple first round picks and better players.

No one wants our scraps and especially not on inflated contracts.

Our 2 first round picks and whatever we get for TDK might get us halfway there. Reid is unfortunately a pipe dream.

 

[Broadside]

I’d have little confidence at the moment we could make Reid a better player. We don’t develop our talent well at all. Reminds me of Melbourne circa 2010 when high draft picks withered on the vine.

 

[HarryFlashman]

What was proposed should include us giving them our first round draft pick and getting nothing in return - only way we get rid of those players

Cripps is an intersting one - he is 28 and will be 29 at years end. I dont see him getting any better and will only start to decline (if it hasnt begun already). I fear in a year or two it could be a sharp decline. He is signed to 2027 (i said at the time it was too long a contract).

That’s a big problem, this season is close to shot, next season we won’t be top 4 & the season after it’s odds on he’s injured for a decent part of it - (not unreasonable to assume a 30-31yr old who’s been carrying massive loads his entire career will have some injury concerns calf/hammy is most likely).
We need him fit and firing late this season & then it’s not unreasonable to explore being absolutely ruthless & see if anyone will give us 2 1st round picks.
Not saying do it, however 2 1st rounders get us top line kid & a good ruckman or small forward, it’s at least a thought to explore.

 

[FRUMPY]

I’d have little confidence at the moment we could make Reid a better player. We don’t develop our talent well at all. Reminds me of Melbourne circa 2010 when high draft picks withered on the vine.

Well we at carlton know a no.1 draft pick doesnt do shit - we had 3 in a row ffs and could barely make finals at any stage of their careers.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Just get us a mid and a forward who are great runners.
It’s interesting looking at players like Hill, Elliott and McCreery who don’t win the ball and hardly kick goals this year playing a role because they have the pace/running power to do so. They are leaving an actual goal kicker in Ginivan out for the extra run and pressure they can apply.

 

[DangerousD]

Zac Fisher for Sam Flanders

Who says no ?

Fisher probably says no for a start.

 

[sweethoney]

Well we at carlton know a no.1 draft pick doesnt do s**t - we had 3 in a row ffs and could barely make finals at any stage of their careers.

To be honest number 1 pick does jack s**t towards individual and team success. One Brownlow medallist and only 4 premiership players.
Better off trying to get picks 2-10

 

[The Flying Doormat]

To be honest number 1 pick does jack s**t towards individual and team success. One Brownlow medallist and only 4 premiership players.
Better off trying to get picks 2-10

Get creative and take a leaf out of the Power play book where they managed to land Butters, Duursma and Rozee in the same draft.

 

[AB_Blue]

I would offer west coast McGovern , fisher and Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

for the number 1 pick to start with
They need experienced players , not a newbie who won't hang around for more than 2 years.

Martin Gov and Fish for a second and 3rd rounder….I would take and run for the hills


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sweethoney]

Get creative and take a leaf out of the Power play book where they managed to land Butters, Duursma and Rozee in the same draft.

I think that’s what we need to do try and get 3 picks 2 in the top 15 and another one in the top 25. Going to be hard with no 2nd or 3rd rounder this year atm

 

[FRUMPY]

Martin Gov and Fish for a second and 3rd rounder….I would take and run for the hills


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would trade Martin and Gov for a packet of twisties - dont even have to be chicken ones (the best flavour)

 

[AB_Blue]

I would trade Martin and Gov for a packet of twisties - dont even have to be chicken ones (the best flavour)

Oh no chicken is shite…..Cheese all the way!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BlueVision]

I think part of our list concerns centre around the number of players who are injury prone, players such as:

• Marchbank
• Martin
• Cuningham
• Philip
• McGovern
• Williams
• Fogarty

The above have missed a lot of time over the past 2 seasons, this puts pressure on the healthy players as we can't "manage" these players through the regular season as well as we could.

Yesterday also nailed it for me that as much as I love the passions that JSOS brings to the team, he should not be getting a game ahead of TDK for the rest of the year.

How we play 3 small forwards ahead of Dow is hard to fathom, Owies is the least talented out of him, Motlop & Durdin, but hits the scoreboard more.
Combined yesterday, these 3 players did not contribute 30 disposals, I know disposals are not the main measurement for small forwards, but when 2 of the 3 did not kick a goal yesterday and none of the 3 are averaging more than 1 goal for the season we need to re-think the make up of our team.

I would like to see Durdin get some time at the centre bounces if we persist with the 3 small forwards, seems to have a good footy brain & skills.

 

[Michael Jezz]

We don't require a 1 or 2 "A" graders.
We don't want fringe players.
We need 10 'B & C graders who to quote Paul Bastiani "do the basics well"-kick, tackle, run hard both ways. Give me Cottrel and Owies types. Players who will bleed for you-real goers
And we need them in 1 draft.
We could take 5 draftees, 3 trades and 2 from the VFL.
If we want to fix this the above should be our aspirational goal

 

[Markyd]

A fit and firing Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

is exactly the type of player we are missing. Can mark the ball above his head, leg speed, strong tackler, good on the ground and a lovely set shot. This type of player needs to be identified in the Draft or trade period.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I don't think most Carlton supporters objectively look at our list. Coloured by the reputation of a handful of stars at the top.
By contrast, Collingwood have even depth acros the board...with fewer "stars". I think the difference between Carlton and Collingwood is best represented in the difference between Harry Mckay and Brodie Mihocek. Harry is the star. Brodie is the value. I'd trade star for dependable.
McGovern, Martin, Williams...flashy, but not dependable. We need a moneyball approach to the team.

Quality post

Successful sides are built on good role players who do their job week after week allowing the stars to shine. Richmond had them in their premiership years, Collingwood currently have plenty, Geelong have had them for years.

I'd be looking to bring in 2 or 3 of these each year....those players from other sides who have been starved of opportunity for some reason, or have been squeezed out of the starting 22/23 because their side is loaded with similar types. The types of players who are given another chance, and desperate to give everything they have because they realise their next step would be playing country footy. As you say, 'dependable'.

Also, when you look at state league footy, there are players out there even in their early 20's who are quality at this level - and likely missed being drafted for some reason, but have matured and developed to become AFL quality. Just look at players like Stewart and Lambert who went on to play important roles in premiership teams. Wouldn't we love to have an Ash Johnson or Brodie Mihocek right now.

I reckon we forget about bringing in more 'star' players. Trade or recruit 2 or 3 of these types each year to complement our list requirements, and continue to hit the draft hard.

 

[FRUMPY]

A fit and firing Jack Martin is exactly the type of player we are missing. Can mark the ball above his head, leg speed, strong tackler, good on the ground and a lovely set shot. This type of player needs to be identified in the Draft or trade period.

Who is this Jack Martin you speak of? The Jack Martin on our list does none of those, well, he might do it for 5 mins but thats about it.

 

[Brackets]

Regardless of his down form at periods, what an incredible waste of talent it will be should Cripps end his career without ever playing a final.

Probably already is given his impact will probably be more akin to Dangerfield premiership season than Dusty premiership seasons should we make it in the next few years.

Hopefully Charlie doesn't end up in the same boat in the years to come.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Looks like this thread is going to be more interesting than our on field play once again in 2023.

Not really given we don’t even have cap space anymore to chase after a rabbit or two

 

[CJMB]

Not really given we don’t even have cap space anymore to chase after a rabbit or two

...Until we jettison a few players and replace them with draftees.

What's Plow on? Think he re-signed just after another top-10 b&f finish. Surely that's at least 300? So there's upwards of 180 in the bank if we replace him with a kid from the national draft.

Ed? Senior player, great servant of the club, etc. Can't be on nearly as much as he was back in the day but we're still putting 100-200 in tha bank with a ND replacement.

If Gov stays, he's getting waaaay less than he was on. There's 400-650 (re-sign vs draft replacement).

Dow's meant to be on surprisingly big money, some 450-500, hence no suitors last year. I imagine Fogarty didn't come across on a rookie wage (not saying big bucks or even close to that, but he's not going to be on 120).

Hard to judge Marchy & DC. CM would have come across on reasonable money, no idea what he's on now. Also no idea how the club saw Richie & how they rewarded him. Philp had the '1st round +2 extension' which probably wasn't heaps above his rookie rate, but could have been an extra 100 for year 3+4. Honey wouldn't be on much, but would be more than a rookie drafted player.

It's not inconceivable that we re-sign TDK & Gov then draft 4-5 players, yet still end up with upwards of $1.5M 'change' left at the end.

 

[Markyd]

Who is this Jack Martin you speak of? The Jack Martin on our list does none of those, well, he might do it for 5 mins but thats about it.

I did say fit and firing…
Martin has all those attributes but his body has let him down badly.