List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Jeremias]

Setterfield would’ve played a role on Thursday, but the VFL won their practise match anyway.

He wouldn’t have played seniors.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Setterfield and Stocker would have been playing with Dow this weekend. No doubt, because we didn’t rate them.
Good game s by both this week. We’ll find out who the fools are soon enough, especially trading for no return value.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Setterfield is a capable 4th-5th mid at a lower club and a great depth mid at a stronger club.

Performed very well against Melbourne and Collingwood last year and put up similar numbers today.

Tipping he is eventually overtaken at Essendon as Hobbs/Caldwell/Tsatas improve but he is a good get for where they’re at now and if contracts weren’t a thing we certainly would’ve retained him over Dow.

Carroll has greater upside, better ball use and composure, a more well rounded game. Hopefully he can continue to improve as he is now next up.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Setterfield and Stocker would have been playing with Dow this weekend. No doubt, because we didn’t rate them.
Good game s by both this week. We’ll find out who the fools are soon enough, especially trading for no return value.

Setters got offered more money and a longer term at Essendon so he did what most would do and took it. We had other priorities so offered him less and were ok to let him go. If we are going to lose players due to cap tightness I’d rather lose someone like Setters than someone really important.

Stocker has been a bizarre story for our club. We rated him absurdly high initially and then we started finding out all he had all manner of question marks attached to him. I’m sure we tested the market before we delisted him so I’d say other clubs saw his only value was as a delisted free agent.

 

[Jeremias]

Setterfield and Stocker would have been playing with Dow this weekend. No doubt, because we didn’t rate them.
Good game s by both this week. We’ll find out who the fools are soon enough, especially trading for no return value.

Think we wanted to keep Setterfield, but he was not and I’d not in our best side, and was OOC.

As is his right he found a place where he’d play more and be paid for it

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I personally was thrilled with the debuts of Hollands, Cowan (and Acres) on Thursday Night, even on a small sample size, they seem to fit into our team and coaching staff a lot better then Setters and Stocker.

Sometimes footy is like that, Lemmey should get some games later in the season too, I honestly reckon we had a fantastic national draft last year and no need for hindsight grizzling (esp as Setterfield was often a whipping boy anyway)

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

Possibly and I would have preferred keeping him, but that simply wasn't possible, given what he was offered

Although, I wouldn't solely judge him on his outing today, Hawks are cemented to being bottom 2

No one has a crystal ball!

 

[Stamos]

Do you think they are going to overcome their current and historic injuries, then become durable players for us?

I think they are definitely worth the risk of the contracts they got.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Think we wanted to keep Setterfield, but he was not and I’d not in our best side, and was OOC.

As is his right he found a place where he’d play more and be paid for it

My problem with Setters trade, is that we played him out of position, even before we traded for Hewett and Cerra or even given Kennedy the games. That is the mistake. The guy was never going to hang around after we traded in other inside mids.

 

[Aphrodite]

If TDK leaves we want Ben McKay

Says who.

They are his words.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

You reckon Setters was on or wanted big bucks? We were lucky to get a 4th rounder

We choose to trim.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Reckon he would have played a role for us on Thursday night?

I'm sure he would have mate (if selected). Not sure what you're hoping to achieve after round 1

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Anyone who is banging on about Setterfield...

It says more about the * midfield by him being their best than actually what it does about ours.

 

[thylacine60]

Anyone who is banging on about Setterfield...

It says more about the * midfield by him being their best than actually what it does about ours.

flake

 

[Magical_EddieBetts]

Says who.

They are his words.

Okay I’m sure he made it up

 

[Benaly28]

Setterfield was up against one of the most inexperienced and youngest midfields in the comp.

Cmon people seriously.


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[thylacine60]

the saddler was a deadset bust.........got nothing we need.............

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Would be surprised if Setters plays more than 100 games for * Ditto Stocker and.

Maybe we need some fortune tellers/clairvoyants in our recruitment department.

Our ins during last year's draft/trade/list management significantly outweigh our outs.

Assuming they are not cursed with injuries, Hollands and Cowans will be significant and impactful 200 plus game players for us.
Our list management and talent scout staff, whilst not perfect, I have had more faith in at our club than any time since probably the 90s . I remember the constant complaining about Shane O'Sullivan in the 90s/early 00s (You had to be there fam)

Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

(a pickup I was very sceptical of initally) has proved to be a diamond in the rough recruit, much like George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

.

I have the utmost faith in our A-Team (Austin and Agresta)

 

[HereComesJuddy]

flake

And a minimum chips please

 

[true blue19]

We have a great spine but we are lacking a 3rd tall forward and 3rd tall defender. We need either McGovern or Marchbank and Martin or JSOS to step up in those positions. The rest of the list is in a good position other than a A grade ruckman.

I think trading TDK will be a bold move to set up our list. If we can get a similar return to what Melbourne received for Jackson we will have to take it. It will give us the draft pick to bring in what we need either via the draft or trade period.

 

[RAPPA]

Setterfield was up against one of the most inexperienced and youngest midfields in the comp.

Cmon people seriously.


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Not to mention walking into a midfield that was crying out for bigger body types. If Essendon had comparable mids like Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett to choose from, then Setters would not have been playing today.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Setterfield was up against one of the most inexperienced and youngest midfields in the comp.

Cmon people seriously.


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He also did a great job for us against Melbourne and Collingwood last year when called upon. You’re allowed to give credit where it’s due.

Good on him for chasing the opportunity and so far making the most of it. Our best 22 has moved past him and Essendon are no direct threat as it stands so it’s no massive loss.

 

[Jimmae]

And unfortunately, having Vossy as coach while good is only a small part of the answer. There's only so much that the coach can do sitting on the sidelines. The rest is up to the on field leadership and communication of the playing group.

Oh so he can't figure out specific skill issues to target and associated game sense, do video reviews with players and devise drills that target this? What exactly does he do for 50 hours of his week then?

Further to this, if Voss cannot point out some semblence of overdone bean counting that appears to be happening within the organisation that stifles the playing group - hell, the entire football department - then I don't think he's any part of the answer. He doesn't need to provide a perfect message, but surely he can articulate some concerns.

So far I'm just seeing too much of the Voss that got ejected from Brisbane. Really hoping he doesn't continue the tradition of us getting fooled by rhetoric until we're completely bled for cash.

I know it sucks eggs to say out loud... But we need a Shai bloody Bolton.

He'd fit right in with our snap from 15m out crew too.

We picked Fisher instead. Personally I was keen on Joe Atley leading in (and SOS was looking at Hayward and Drew), but I wasn't as familiar with Bolton's work at the time and noted him as an astute pick in the aftermath. Guessing we did our usual thing of shitting our pants at anyone that seemed remotely edgy instead of figuring out how to provide a sound environment for professionals to grow as players and as people. Yay!

And to further throw myself in for the Harry Hindsight award as per Wickzki and Beyond Blue's exchange:

I would have picked Scrimshaw instead of SPS (trading down for Simpkin was my next move), and LDU instead of Dow (Bonar or Fogarty instead of O'Brien, or trading 10 to pick two in the 15-25 range)... right now I'm looking a fair way ahead.

I've been happy to be creative, and invest in the ability for coaches to be able to impart an appropriate game style, but it seems we can't recognise talent in a variety of areas of our football operations. Really hope I'm wrong and we start to get ahead of the pack for a change.

We genuinely do not know how to model for players that make differences in games, particularly in finals, or finals-like pressure. It's a shame, because in the 80s we clearly knew when someone had the knack, now we seem to run in the other direction for the human equivalent of blue chip stocks. You need a balance.

People are overestimating the quality needed across the 22 (-30) needed to win a flag.
Geelong were dominant last year. Rhys Stanley was their ruck FFS.
And in round 5 last year they lost to Hawthorn.

What's important is to play as a team, everybody doing their role, and confidence within that. We've got the talent.
There's also the growth that occurs across the 23 games of the season.

It's about having the right system for enough of your best talent, and surrounding them with players that fill the gaps that appear in terms of strengths and weaknesses in the best way possible.

We fail at step one, because we're obsessed grading players based on specific tasks we want completed on a football field, and the rest be damned. I don't think there's anyone in the AFL that rates Kennedy and Newman as highly as we do, and by a fair margin. It's terrifyingly out of touch.

Fisher is 1 guy I would have traded back to a rebuilding west coast or freo.

Seeing him go wouldn't have hurt us.

We would have got a second back or swapped for another need.

Salary cap point is valid. However any comment on that has been rubbished in this group has media alarmism. So can't have it both ways.

The boys from the Prendercast have pointed that we should have gone hard for Goldstein. That I agree.

TDK i would have placed on the table and if you get a juicy offer, why not. I cant see us matching Sydney's 8yrs or $$ offer.


Point was, it was clear to me we had gaps. Austin did excellent in drafting, but he could have got creative. We dont need more superstars- so high dollars, picks etc - just role players in key defiency areas.

What else did Austin do at trade week. Moved on setterfield for a packet of chips. When it turns out according to reports, we wanted to keep him, but couldnt afford it.

We needed a Ruck, small fwd and winger. We got the winger not the other 2

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I'm no fan of that podcast, and I'm also no fan of their ruck choice given there were names like Flynn, Grundy, and Briggs floating about, but the fundamental decision is sound: we need a better starting ruck option than Pittonet.

I personally would have seen him out of contract last year or the year before, and moved on from him. He's not part of any finals team IMO.

Fisher is someone I've put forward for trade for 2 or 3 years, and everybody's getting on board that wagon about now, when he has no bloody value any more. We seem to get too enamoured about the idea of certain things from certain players without looking at the genuine chance of that predicted peak every happening.

I can 100% guarantee you that whatever player peformance modelling we're doing is missing a healthy dose of reality.

There's been lots of great small forward options for years in various drafts at various price and capital points, and we've talked ourselves out of way too many of them because we want metronomes rather than flair.

Our new coaching and list management team have thankfully identified our weaknesses and gone to work...but it'll take a bit of time.

Drafted Durdin and Motlop for our small forward weaknesses.
Drafted kids who can run like Hollands...too many of our early midfield picks under SOS don't have the running power required (Dow, SPS, Stocker, Fish etc).
Brought in Acres for a wing position on a cheap contract.

Motlop isn't truly a small forward... he's not going to tear down the field and score or set others up that way. He's agile, and built fairly strongly and is best served in midfield roles longer term. Endurance is building up to that point so we need to again seek a small forward prospect in the future, or at least rotate our midfield through the forward line on a more permanent basis.

If we cut them, what would we have traded for direct replacements?
We would have had a pick in the 60s and another in the 70s. Almost certainly we spend one of those on O'Keefe. So really just gives us an extra spot for an SSP replacement.

So... at the end of 2022, what is your alternative? People keep saying we can't keep injured players but give no real thought to the next step.

And trading for established replacements just wasn't an option.

So I was all set to reply to these, and then this popped up:

There were cheap options around.

Aaron Francis (equivalent of an early third rounder), Sam Weideman (equivalent of a late second rounder), Josh Schache (2023 fourth rounder), Lachie Hunter (2023 third rounder) were all cheap gets in the last off-season.

Delisting Marchy and replacing him with one of Francis/Weideman/Schache would have been viable.

Delisting Cunners and replacing him with Hunter would have been viable.

Can guarantee there would be other fringe players who didn't move clubs, but could have if we'd made an attempt.

They're not necessarily players who move the needle as such, but if they're on the park it's more helpful than a nice bloke in the rehab group.

Feel like this year will be the cleanout of the perpetually injured. Only so many years that the coaching group will suffer through the nightmare of only having 32 blokes to select from.

And unfortunately it misses a few key points, such as:

• Jye Menzie in the mid-season draft instead of Sam Durdin
• Not giving Newman and Plowman such long deals
• A raft of other draft options than Hollands at the pick

I would have only bothered with Weideman though, and that would have been after never picking Durdin. Griffin Logue and Darcy Tucker were obviously available as well for an even better price than what we secured Acres for. McStay was a free agent, but that would have nullified the Jones compensation... well worth it though.

Delisting March or Cunners doesn't get us any of those players. Trading the pick we used to get Lemmy might.
Also, none of those players provide something we need compared to the role and talent that Cunners and Marchy have.

See above, we had openings in the 22 if we wanted to make some small guarantees and show a little faith in people. That being said I would have retained Cuningham and Marchbank regardless.

I can categorically tell you we did hope to move Dow on. There were zero takers. So no, we couldn't move Dow on.

That's mostly because we fold like a deck of cards or devalue the player within a year. For reference, see most of the trades we've made since 2016.

Not sure how silvagni would have known Philp would be this injured , just unlucky for the young lad.
I also have no problem with our
List. I think we have a list that can contend with a bit of luck and luck I mean less injuries.
From an outside view I felt the club thought we were close so role the dice on the injured players… it hasn’t worked so far so I expect us to go the other way th is year.
Only issue I have is the contracts last year we gave out .. owies , cottrell and boyd got 2 years if I remember correctly why !!!

Silvagni would hopefully have known he was likely to have back and groin issues without appropriate management and work on his running, but perhaps that later revealed itself fully as him being made of chalk. It's clear there's a history of taking the wrong kinds of risks on players without sufficient medical advice.

That makes it sound like they're ignoring the doctors and testing services they consult, but I'm arguing that perhaps they just don't have access to good information, which is a far more consistent theme across the organisation.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

It's not naivety at all. Simply a response to the question of how we could have filled the list spots should we have cut a few injured blokes. You may not love the players, that's fine, I'm not arguing for them to become best 22 staples - simply showing that it wouldn't have cost much to bring in some passable mature depth.

That's the discussion, as I see it, and it will happen again at year's end - there must come a time when the permanent members of the rehab group are moved on for the sake of maintaining a list of 36-38 fit players for the majority of the season. They don't have to be 36-38 guys competing for a starting spot, but we need to have a predominantly healthy squad for the sake of senior performance and reserves development.

But you're presuming they didn't do this - which they would as a matter of course....

The powers that be must have decided it was worth rolling the dice on a few of these players (Guv, Marchy, Cuners) as all are potential first 22 players when fit. Their ceiling is undoubtedly high.

Sure, come year's end, if one of Marchy/Guv haven't stayed on the park - curtains for them.

But they must have decided rolling the dice on them was a better option than picking up a Schache or the like.

And we have Nigel as backup too.

Ditto Cuners if he fails the Marchy/Guv test.

Philp goneski, likely Paddy too (*kudos to his 4 goal effort on Thursday) unless he can win a senior spot and perform.

Fog too, goneski.

 

[Catfish blue]

Setterfield was up against one of the most inexperienced and youngest midfields in the comp.

Cmon people seriously.


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Had 21 uncontested possessions...if he is your outside mid you're in trouble. Seriously need to move on from Setterfield. Caroll and Hollands are much better prospect and he would not go past Cerra, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett, Cripps & Acres.