Autopsy 2023 Rd 5 Blues get smashed by Crows

[4flagsin5yrs]

Our midfielders so far in 2023.

Cripps 6.5/10
Hewett 4/10
Kennedy - see Hewett - 4/10.
Cerra - 6.5/10
Ed C - 5.5/10
Fish 2.5/10

Rucks:

Pitto 4.5/10
TDK 4/10

 

[passmark]

I feel the opposite about Durdin, at least this season so far.

I've seen him several times now get the ball with multiple options just freeze and hold onto it. Last week in particular he burned 2 golden opportunities for goals (or at least good shots at goal) because he couldn't pull the trigger quick enough. One he had 2 options inside 50 about 20 metres clear and he froze and passed it sideways because he took so long that the options got covered.

Yeah, can't say that's how I've seen it but fmd we need something other than mules in the midfield.

 

[passmark]

As much as this is true with a lot of SOS’ draft picks, it’s the current list managements job to get rid of the lemons on this list (SOS has been gone since 2020). There is no reason to still have JSOS, Dow, LOB, Honey, Ed Curnow, Fisher at the club. I would be genuinely shocked if any of them are at the club next year and all of them (apart from Dow and Honey) seem to be entrenched in the 22. There is also no reason to still have Owies, McGovern and Martin on the list next year. Our top end talent is as good as any clubs in the competition. Our bottom half is as bad as any clubs in the competition.

If this club can get rid of those types that I listed and replace them well, this club is a flag contender. They aren’t with multiple plodders getting games all at the same time.

Contracts and hope have kept most of those people on the list.

I get hoping that players will get over their fitness issues but that must be running out.

 

[luke livingston seagull]

Nobody else went forward for him. Simple as that. He tried, he looked for the inboard option, there was nothing, so he had to just take a low percentage shot. He had an ordinary night but that play wasn't on him.

True in that he had no option but to have a shot once he was pinned in the pocket, but quality small forwards find a way of finishing those goals when they get out the back. Either they have the pace to burn off the defender or they have the smarts to turn them inside out. Fish cooked that play.

 

[gadj1976]

Nobody else went forward for him. Simple as that. He tried, he looked for the inboard option, there was nothing, so he had to just take a low percentage shot. He had an ordinary night but that play wasn't on him.

I was there. They were streaming into the corridor.

 

[Blueballs38]

Not feeling any better today … I’m a blue blue.

I know we are not premiership ready this year but believe our window opens next year BUT we need some speed and penetrating kicks in the 23 and some ****ing luck with injuries! Oh and some smart pills!

 

[RPCB]

Contracts and hope have kept most of those people on the list.

Yeah, you’d be right. Probably easier at the end of this year to move a few players on.

I get hoping that players will get over their fitness issues but that must be running out.

It’s definitely wearing thin. Our injury record for years is basically what West Coast’s Covid outs record was and that was massive.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Yes poor us, had to go interstate to play a game of football. Top spot on the line and did not give a yelp.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

No excuses here, give credit where it's due they were good.
How can it be "poor us" when we got the opportunity to view which players handle finals like pressure and which ones don't?

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

As much as this is true with a lot of SOS’ draft picks, it’s the current list managements job to get rid of the lemons on this list (SOS has been gone since 2020). There is no reason to still have JSOS, Dow, LOB, Honey, Ed Curnow, Fisher at the club. I would be genuinely shocked if any of them are at the club next year and all of them (apart from Dow and Honey) seem to be entrenched in the 22. There is also no reason to still have Owies, McGovern and Martin on the list next year. Our top end talent is as good as any clubs in the competition. Our bottom half is as bad as any clubs in the competition.

If this club can get rid of those types that I listed and replace them well, this club is a flag contender. They aren’t with multiple plodders getting games all at the same time.

I think SOS and Fisher are well worth their spots on the list.

SOS a great third tall that pinch hits in the ruck. Invaluable.

Fisher showed last year he has what it takes, has not had any midfield time this year as opposed to last year. Speak to any player/coach they'll tell you HFF is that most difficult position to play. At worst he's great depth but I see him as well and truly in our best 22.

Im not an Owies fan either but he has kicked quite a few goals this year already. Would've helped last night for sure.

I dont think you can understimate how important Doc is as well. Our defence looked awful without him.

Plowman a huuuuuge downgrade on Mclovin.

 

[Accidental genius]

As much as this is true with a lot of SOS’ draft picks, it’s the current list managements job to get rid of the lemons on this list (SOS has been gone since 2020). There is no reason to still have JSOS, Dow, LOB, Honey, Ed Curnow, Fisher at the club. I would be genuinely shocked if any of them are at the club next year and all of them (apart from Dow and Honey) seem to be entrenched in the 22. There is also no reason to still have Owies, McGovern and Martin on the list next year. Our top end talent is as good as any clubs in the competition. Our bottom half is as bad as any clubs in the competition.

If this club can get rid of those types that I listed and replace them well, this club is a flag contender. They aren’t with multiple plodders getting games all at the same time.

getting rid of players like owies is not wise imo. He ain’t the most skilled but perfect depth role player to cover a senior small forward when needed.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

I feel the opposite about Durdin, at least this season so far.

I've seen him several times now get the ball with multiple options just freeze and hold onto it. Last week in particular he burned 2 golden opportunities for goals (or at least good shots at goal) because he couldn't pull the trigger quick enough. One he had 2 options inside 50 about 20 metres clear and he froze and passed it sideways because he took so long that the options got covered.

100%. I think hes mentally scarred from the pass that almost cost us the game vs Sydney last year. Also the game vs Collingwood where he simply had to move it quickly but held on and ended up passing to the opposition. Durdin great depth and has the potential to become a good player but he's certainly not our answer in the midfield.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

100%. I think hes mentally scarred from the pass that almsot cost us the game vs Sydney last year. Also the game vs Collingwood where he simply had to move it quickly but held on and ended up passing to the opposition. Durdin grat depth and has the potnetial to become a good player but he's certainly not our answer in the midfield.

we'll never know unless we try it....

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Two of the quickest and smartest we have are Durdin and Motlop.

I realise they're not mids but boy, I would have like to have seen them get a run through the middle. Both have better than average skills and hard to tackle

Watching our usual mids running up and down on the spot got very tiresome.

I noted in the preseaon time trials Motlop was always running in the top group, i just wonder if perhaps he does have the tank to play some footy through the middle.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Two of the quickest and smartest we have are Durdin and Motlop.

I realise they're not mids but boy, I would have like to have seen them get a run through the middle. Both have better than average skills and hard to tackle

Watching our usual mids running up and down on the spot got very tiresome.

Same reason the Crows don't play M.Crouch but at a guess if he was on our list we'd find a way of getting him in the side. He gets lots of possessions so he must be good, 'cause stats is the only thing this game is about.

 

[blueboy25]

We haven't been playing well for 4 quarters all season and we got found out today. 13 of their 18 goals were in Q1 and Q4 otherwise we matched them on the scoreboard in the other two quarters.

We can't expect to win every game, remember Geelong lost to Hawthorn last year. It's how we go away over the next week and regroup and play next is what matters.

I like the idea of Gather Round but 2 teams have a big advantage (Adelaide and Port) and 2 teams have a big disadvantage (Carlton and Footscray). The other 14 teams are all square. Do you think North would rather play Brisbane in the Adelaide Hills or at the Gabba? Unfortunately us and the dogs miss out this year.

Also sounds like Gather Round will be back in SA next year, what's the bet we get Port Adelaide next year.

 

[RPCB]

I think SOS and Fisher are well worth their spots on the list.

SOS a great third tall that pinch hits in the ruck. Invaluable.

Fisher showed last year he has what it takes, has not had any midfield time this year as opposed to last year. Speak to any player/coach they'll tell you HFF is that most difficult position to play. At worst he's great depth but I see him as well and truly in our best 22.

It’s the consistently with both that kills it for me. JSOS takes lots of big marks and puts in some good games but he is very hit or miss from week to week. Same with Fisher.

Im not an Owies fan either but he has kicked quite a few goals this year already. Would've helped last night for sure.

I like Durdin a lot more than I like Owies. I do agree than Owies can find the goal but another one I find hit or miss.

I dont think you can understimate how important Doc is as well. Our defence looked awful without him.

I almost fell off my seat thinking I accidentally wrote Doc. Dow is who I wrote.

Plowman a huuuuuge downgrade on Mclovin.

Definitely. It’s more McGovern’s injury record as the reason he can’t be at this club. Should try to move away from injury prone players as much as possible, even if they are talented players. There are plenty of equally talented players around the competition that would give 20+ games on a consistent basic.

All in all, we have lots of inconsistent players that can put in good games but we need it on a weekly basis. Mitch’s big issue is with injury, not performance.

 

[Thrawn]

I hate Gather Round.

**** Gather Round.

 

[Coops93]

We haven't been playing well for 4 quarters all season and we got found out today. 13 of their 18 goals were in Q1 and Q4 otherwise we matched them on the scoreboard in the other two quarters.

We can't expect to win every game, remember Geelong lost to Hawthorn last year. It's how we go away over the next week and regroup and play next is what matters.

I like the idea of Gather Round but 2 teams have a big advantage (Adelaide and Port) and 2 teams have a big disadvantage (Carlton and Footscray). The other 14 teams are all square. Do you think North would rather play Brisbane in the Adelaide Hills or at the Gabba? Unfortunately us and the dogs miss out this year.

Also sounds like Gather Round will be back in SA next year, what's the bet we get Port Adelaide next year.

Woe is the Victorian team that has to play an interstate game.

 

[jpfalvo]

Exactly. The worst part is the coaching seat was already vacant. They didn’t even need to do the dirty on the current coach like the saints did.

But they were too concerned with being the “new Carlton” who would never go out and headhunt the best coach.

Its funny how people here discuss the Ross Lyon recruitment. Claiming that he wouldnt interview, and the process overrides headhunting

Sayers offered him the job. Board decided via Patty Kinnersley he needed to break his non disclosure agreement on what happened at Freo and thus interview for it.

The issue didnt seem to bother STK.

Whats even funnier, is that no one had an issue Sayers headhunting Clarkson...

Was Clarkson going to be interviewed!? Hmm no


Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[RPCB]

getting rid of players like owies is not wise imo. He ain’t the most skilled but perfect depth role player to cover a senior small forward when needed.

Happy to be wrong about Owies. I can see lots of changes happening at the end of the year but hey, we are still in Round 5 so that is in half a year.

 

[kingkingston]

More goals from midfield and more goals from forwards not named Charlie or Harry.

If it weren't for those 2 we'd struggle to kick 40 points a game.

Motlop, Durdin, and Owies have kicked goals. Motlop and Owies have 6 goals. Durdin has 5

 

[btdg]

As much as this is true with a lot of SOS’ draft picks, it’s the current list managements job to get rid of the lemons on this list (SOS has been gone since 2020). There is no reason to still have JSOS, Dow, LOB, Honey, Ed Curnow, Fisher at the club. I would be genuinely shocked if any of them are at the club next year and all of them (apart from Dow and Honey) seem to be entrenched in the 22. There is also no reason to still have Owies, McGovern and Martin on the list next year. Our top end talent is as good as any clubs in the competition. Our bottom half is as bad as any clubs in the competition.

If this club can get rid of those types that I listed and replace them well, this club is a flag contender. They aren’t with multiple plodders getting games all at the same time.

Why is the solution always just delisting players and starting again? We have been in this cycle for two decades, and loaded up with more 'talent' than anyone. This time round, we've stacked up draft picks, then we spent the farm on free agents... still can't make the finals.

Perhaps instead we should be looking at player development and our structures. In particular, our coaches seem incapable of getting the best out of the role players on the list - guys like everyone listed above. Our stars are firing - Cripps won the Brownlow, both our forwards won Coleman medals, half the backline has made All-Australian - but year after year we seem incapable of getting average players to contribute, grow, and become good.

Case in point - J-SOS. You can argue he is the victim of both poor development AND poor structures.

Development: J-SOS still, after 8 years at the club, has poor field kicking technique and almost non-existent weak side. His goal kicking technique is particularly poor for a forward. Even his biomechanics and running look 'off' to me - he's not as fast off the mark as he should be, and slow to change direction. Other than just getting bigger, what is he demonstrably better at since he came to the club? His stats have essentially plateued in every area since 2019 (when he was 22) - basically, he got big enough to compete properly, but hasn't developed at all beyond that.

STructure: One thing should be clear at this point - J-SOS is not a forward. In 103 games he has never kicked 4 goals in a match, and he has never averaged a goal per game for a season. He is a bad shot at goal, not a particularly good contested or leading mark, and not good enough on the ground. He DOES have some real strengths - he is good at competing in the air and then tackling/pressuring on teh ground, keeps his feet well, able to match up with big or small opponents, etc. and often plays his best footy when he leads and presents as a target up on the wing. His skillset would suggest to me that he is really a defender... like many failed forwards (including his father). He's 194cm (1cm taller than Steven May, who was AA last year, 3cm taller than both Mitch McGovern and Lachie Plowman); he's as quick as most defenders, and his disposal can be patched better in the back half of the ground. Alternatively, let's just consider him what he is (currently) - an undersized ruckman - and develop him into a specialist in that role (perhaps as a complement to TDK pinch hitting forward?).

There's many ways to go, but we cannot continue forever blaming our list management. At the end of the day every team and list has strengths and weaknesses. Richmond in 2017 lost their second best key forward to injury... Hardwick adjusted, built a structure based around unheralded small forwards like Jason Castagna, Dan Butler (21yo and yet to play a game at that point), Josh Caddy (a failed midfielder at his 3rd club, reinvigorated with a position change), etc. Collingwood lost Brodie Grundy for the season last year and were tipped to be bottom 4... they built a structure based around Daicos running of half back, doubled down on their strengths, and now they're premiership favourites. Geelong were too old, too slow... so they built a game plan based around their strengths in defence and won a premiership. You can go on and on, but what all of those teams avoided doing was blaming the bottom 6 on their list, shuffling the deckchairs and pretending everything would be fine once they completed their rebuild in 5-6 years time...

 

[kingkingston]

Happy to be wrong about Owies. I can see lots of changes happening at the end of the year but hey, we are still in Round 5 so that is in half a year.

Owies has 6 goals in 3 games. We need 2 goal a game forwards. he started the season nicely.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

It’s the consistently with both that kills it for me. JSOS takes lots of big marks and puts in some good games but he is very hit or miss from week to week. Same with Fisher.


I like Durdin a lot more than I like Owies. I do agree than Owies can find the goal but another one I find hit or miss.


I almost fell off my seat thinking I accidentally wrote Doc. Dow is who I wrote.



Definitely. It’s more McGovern’s injury record as the reason he can’t be at this club. Should try to move away from injury prone players as much as possible, even if they are talented players. There are plenty of equally talented players around the competition that would give 20+ games on a consistent basic.

All in all, we have lots of inconsistent players that can put in good games but we need it on a weekly basis. Mitch’s big issue is with injury, not performance.

Haha no I randomly went off tangent with Doc lol.

Agree re SOS, needs to improve consistency.

Not an Owies fan at all but he's done ok I guess. Durdin's biggest issue is his height (not his fault) gets outmarked nearly every time.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Why is the solution always just delisting players and starting again? We have been in this cycle for two decades, and loaded up with more 'talent' than anyone. This time round, we've stacked up draft picks, then we spent the farm on free agents... still can't make the finals.

Perhaps instead we should be looking at player development and our structures. In particular, our coaches seem incapable of getting the best out of the role players on the list - guys like everyone listed above. Our stars are firing - Cripps won the Brownlow, both our forwards won Coleman medals, half the backline has made All-Australian - but year after year we seem incapable of getting average players to contribute, grow, and become good.

Case in point - J-SOS. You can argue he is the victim of both poor development AND poor structures.

Development: J-SOS still, after 8 years at the club, has poor field kicking technique and almost non-existent weak side. His goal kicking technique is particularly poor for a forward. Even his biomechanics and running look 'off' to me - he's not as fast off the mark as he should be, and slow to change direction. Other than just getting bigger, what is he demonstrably better at since he came to the club? His stats have essentially plateued in every area since 2019 (when he was 22) - basically, he got big enough to compete properly, but hasn't developed at all beyond that.

STructure: One thing should be clear at this point - J-SOS is not a forward. In 103 games he has never kicked 4 goals in a match, and he has never averaged a goal per game for a season. He is a bad shot at goal, not a particularly good contested or leading mark, and not good enough on the ground. He DOES have some real strengths - he is good at competing in the air and then tackling/pressuring on teh ground, keeps his feet well, able to match up with big or small opponents, etc. and often plays his best footy when he leads and presents as a target up on the wing. His skillset would suggest to me that he is really a defender... like many failed forwards (including his father). He's 194cm (1cm taller than Steven May, who was AA last year, 3cm taller than both Mitch McGovern and Lachie Plowman); he's as quick as most defenders, and his disposal can be patched better in the back half of the ground. Alternatively, let's just consider him what he is (currently) - an undersized ruckman - and develop him into a specialist in that role (perhaps as a complement to TDK pinch hitting forward?).

There's many ways to go, but we cannot continue forever blaming our list management. At the end of the day every team and list has strengths and weaknesses. Richmond in 2017 lost their second best key forward to injury... Hardwick adjusted, built a structure based around unheralded small forwards like Jason Castagna, Dan Butler (21yo and yet to play a game at that point), Josh Caddy (a failed midfielder at his 3rd club, reinvigorated with a position change), etc. Collingwood lost Brodie Grundy for the season last year and were tipped to be bottom 4... they built a structure based around Daicos running of half back, doubled down on their strengths, and now they're premiership favourites. Geelong were too old, too slow... so they built a game plan based around their strengths in defence and won a premiership. You can go on and on, but what all of those teams avoided doing was blaming the bottom 6 on their list, shuffling the deckchairs and pretending everything would be fine once they completed their rebuild in 5-6 years time...

I like what you're saying but I see SOS as one of the best field kicks in the team. Definitely like it in his hands going inside 50m. Awful shot at goal though I agree.