List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[Viceregal]

You know when it comes to draft and trade I never get tired of winning

 

[rye]

Noice. Look out Linc

i know hes the most likely player to be squeezed out for lohmann, but i think mccarthy has had a deceptively good season that is not fully reflected in the stats sheet and it will take quite a bit for lohmann to move past him

going into this year the coaches were all stating that the focus for our team in the preseason was to improve our team defence and have everyone in the team buy into this - the switch of murray and adcock was said specifically in media somewhere to be a part of bringing a more defensive edge to the forward line.

mccarthy has really epitomised this for me as one who has bought in absolutely to team defence. very rarely see him flying high for marks and using his aerial skills this year, but his forward pressure has really lifted and been a significant part of our forward half game.

 

[iBeng]

More than happy to keep him, in a few years he'll be a solid small forward!

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

I honestly never had any doubt Kai and Deven will re-sign.

 

[Dalions]

So glad he hasn’t picked the Bulldogs

 

[T Rick]

Just gonna wait until he officially resigns with the club before feeling relieved about it all but that’s quite the U-turn in this whole situation, which I wasn’t really expecting in the slightest given the constant rumours all year round.

Does make me wonder though if someone like Robertson is moving back home to WA now and / or Fullerton moving to VIC for greater opportunities given our current salary and needing to resign crucial players next year like McCluggage and Berry unless we are absolute geniuses with how we operate our salary cap.

I don't get the sense that we "overpay" players to counter any supposed "go home factor" these days, although in Kai's case, he would have had a clear sense of his market value.
What would he have been worth?

 

[T Rick]

So glad he hasn’t picked the Bulldogs

So is he!

 

[Viceregal]

So glad he hasn’t picked the Bulldogs

So is he!

Especially since they had already on-traded him ... talk about being 'just a number'!

 

[Viceregal]

I honestly never had any doubt Kai and Deven will re-sign.

I see by your avatar that you have lost a fair bit of weight there - well done

Might need a new username!

 

[3KZ is Football]

Unsure on the no to Chol chat here. I’d take him in a heartbeat. He would be a nightmare to match up on as a third tall. Super athletic, good grab and a very reliable shot at goal. Has been a bit soft this year though and has lacked effort. But if he can overcome this form slump it would be a very interesting forward line we’d bring in next year. Would be very exciting. Daniher, Hipwood and Chol. No opposition is stopping all three and would suit our bomb it long to a contest style of game.

Haven’t we established that we work better with a forward line consisting of Hipwood, Daniher, Cameron, Rayner, McCarthy and Bailey? If we picked Chol up, he would be playing a lot of footy in the Reserves, I would have thought.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Fagan will be going back to it at the first available opportunity.

If Gunston didn't have that injury we would've played 3 talls all through the season and in first final as well. Our coach is comfortable with 3 tall structure and the game plan built around it.

Which is a problem, because we have played significantly better with two “talls” and an open forward line.

 

[Viceregal]

Fagan will be going back to it at the first available opportunity.

If Gunston didn't have that injury we would've played 3 talls all through the season and in first final as well. Our coach is comfortable with 3 tall structure and the game plan built around it.

Which is a problem, because we have played significantly better with two “talls” and an open forward line.

The problem might have already been solved and we would all be picking which of the four remaining teams were were barracking for (since we weren't playing) and the board space being used by the game threads would be used in this and the draft threads instead.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Tom Doedee would play a valuable role in our defence, if we were to get him. He is 187cm but plays taller than his height, is a good hybrid defender who can play on different types. Is good one on one, but importantly he would add a lot of intercept power.

In his last 2 full seasons, in 2021 Doedee had 8.29 intercepts per game, and 7.65 intercepts per game in 2022. This would have placed him #6 this year for 2021 (behind only Sam Taylor, James Sicily, Darcy Moore, Tom Stewart and Jake Lever), and #13 for 2022. In those 2 years Doedee had total of 16.6 and 16.1 possessions per game, meaning about half of his possessions are intercepts. This would be very valuable to us, considering this year we only had Harris Andrews (7.54 intercepts, AFL #15) and Ryan Lester (6.0 intercepts, AFL #46) in top 100 for AFL. We did have Wilmot & Payne (#103, 4.96 intercepts), Starcevich (#107, 4.92 intercepts) and Coleman ($116, 4.67 intercepts) outside the top 100 though.

Intercepting defenders are amongst the most valuable assets in the modern game. In years past we used to be clearance/forward half team. This year we've found better balance by having more intercepting ability and scoring heavily on turnover. Having Doedee will only add to that. As to whose place he would take - harder to say, as our defensive 7 looks fairly settled (Andrews, Payne, Lester, Starcevich, Coleman, McKenna and Wilmot). He may take over from Lester (sorry 3KZ) or fit in if say Wilmot moves further up the ground. I'm sure our list management team wouldn't just go grab a player unless we see a clear role for him in our team.

We already had interest in Doedee prior to his ACL, and now with his injury, it allows us to buy this stock while its value is at its lowest. 5 years for decent money would be smart use of the salary cap which will only go up in time. He is currently 26, so would be 31-32 when he comes to end of the contract. These decent but not high coin, longer term contracts are now the way to go, as they allow you to lock in players longer term, ability to smooth salary cap over years and maintain some leverage if players want to break contract early and be traded away. Free agent too so no loss in draft capital.

The main risk is obviously if he does not come back as well post injury. Once OK'ed by our medical people, it would just be known risk when acquiring an injured player. The main advantage is that even if he loses some speed or agility, he would still play a valuable role as interceptor, as you thrive there due to smart reading of the play, good anticipation and a well set up defensive press to obtain intercepts - more than rely on pure athleticism.

Great post. All good things must come to an end, although Ryan has picked up another year. The thing I like about your post is that it highlights something people either don’t notice or wilfully ignore, Ryan Lester’s intercept marking has been a real asset this year. Lester plays tall and he plays smart and he has taken some clutch intercept marks this season. Behind Andrews, he is clearly our second best intercept mark and this, combined with his rebound, elite disposal efficiency and leadership will make him hard to dislodge from the senior side if he is fit.

 

[martinson]

Great post. All good things must come to an end, although Ryan has picked up another year. The thing I like about your post is that it highlights something people either don’t notice or wilfully ignore, Ryan Lester’s intercept marking has been a real asset this year. Lester plays tall and he plays smart and he has taken some clutch intercept marks this season. Behind Andrews, he is clearly our second best intercept mark and this, combined with his rebound, elite disposal efficiency and leadership will make him hard to dislodge from the senior side if he is fit.

Honestly I've been astounded by what Lester has been able to do since he got his opportunity.

Particularly his capacity to know when to take the chance to create some run upfield and execute on it. But all aspects of his game are better than I'd imagined they could be.

I had him placed in a box of being the great clubman thing and break glass in emergency type of player whom you brought in to plug a hole and not stuff up.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary some people still have him in that box . He gets a big shout out on the rare occasions his supposed deficiencies are exposed during the game

 

[Tom14]

Officially official (and a Motty extension too!):

Young guns Lohmann, Wilmot extend stay at Lions den

The Brisbane Lions have completed an impressive double signing to have young guns Darcy Wilmot and Kai Lohmann extend their time with the Club.

www.lions.com.au

 

[LIONS08]

Officially official (and a Motty extension too!):

Young guns Lohmann, Wilmot extend stay at Lions den

The Brisbane Lions have completed an impressive double signing to have young guns Darcy Wilmot and Kai Lohmann extend their time with the Club.

www.lions.com.au

Massive news!! So stoked for Motty! Great news before the weekend!

 

[acuguy]

I expect Lohmann to run through the midfield next year- starting in the 2s

 

[Tom14]

Never thought he'd be a concern but am as excited about extending motty as keeping Kai. Ascending player who is getting better every game.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Really got lucky with Motty slipping to 16. A perfect selection

Just need to start drafting some good, non-academy talls now

 

[Warwick]

What a tremendous surprise re Lohmann. Thought he was definitely out.

 

[Squizz89]

Never thought he'd be a concern but am as excited about extending motty as keeping Kai. Ascending player who is getting better every game.

Been a bloody great week of re-signings with these 2 and Conor earlier in the week. Now go and top it off and get the win this weekend.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Been a bloody great week of re-signings with these 2 and Conor earlier in the week. Now go and top it off and get the win this weekend.

Great vote of confidence in the club.

 

[Elixuh]

I love the smell of fresh contract extensions in the morning. You’d think in 2025 Kai will be a permanent fixture in the side.

 

[p4p1]

Which is a problem, because we have played significantly better with two “talls” and an open forward line.

I do understand the worry we have with 2 forwards but Gunston is clearly not the answer either. If Joe or O went down, we could have real issues. Because of how athletic Joe and Hippy are for such big men, IMO a 3rd tall forward could work but he needs to be just as athletic if not more so than Joe and Hippy but have a bigger focus than both on the defensive side. But how many big men are going to want to play 3rd fiddle to Joe and Hippy when they could potentially be the main target and on bigger money at another team ala McStay? Cam can play as a psuedo 3rd tall and I think it works well for both us and him.
We had a 3 tall forward line in our threepeat team but it was a different game back then, I don't think Lynchy had to leave forward 50 all game. So the loss of run wasn't the same issue. I wonder if that is why we are also seeing a quite a few younger coaches (though admiteddly that could be because coaches have stayed the same age while I have gotten older). Fages, as much as I love the guy has definitely had a hardon for a 3 tall forward line. In years gone by it would have stretched defences to breaking point every week, it serves as insurance incase one of your talls or the ruckman goes down. Now footy is more about how hard and fast you can run and for how long. I'm not saying Fages is stuck in the dark ages because clearly he isn't but it is hard to move past something that has worked since you were a kid and embrace and perhaps even change the new way that things are being done. If anything it a compliment to the man when you consider many of the football people of his era are still spouting off things that haven't worked for the last 15+ years or making insane predictions. I don't think it is because they a stupid or uninformed but perhaps their years of elite experience works against them in this case.

 

[rye]

wouldnt be surprised if wilmot is an all-australian by the time his next contract extension is announced now