List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[LIONS08]

I agree. We should be open to trading Berry. We should also look at moving Rayner on. He has just finished his sixth season, played 113 games and he is still to demonstrate any consistency as a player, as he continues to simply disappear during games. After more than six years in the system, we shouldn’t be ‘hoping’ Rayner has a big preseason which will magically improve his ability to run games out. If Rayner hasn’t built his running capacity to what is required at the elite level by now, he never will.

I’m of the firm opinion you don’t trade players that are the fabric of your club. These blokes are vital. Huge on and off the field for the lions and in my personally opinion should and will be one club players. Entering their prime years from now. They are the future.

 

[martinson]

I agree. We should be open to trading Berry. We should also look at moving Rayner on. He has just finished his sixth season, played 113 games and he is still to demonstrate any consistency as a player, as he continues to simply disappear during games. After more than six years in the system, we shouldn’t be ‘hoping’ Rayner has a big preseason which will magically improve his ability to run games out. If Rayner hasn’t built his running capacity to what is required at the elite level by now, he never will.

I wouldn't have the guts to say it so I'll let you suffer the feedback but his attitude in those dying minutes of the first and second had me jumping out of my seat . And a few hardnuts I was with had better expletives than me.

That has sort of swung my feelings about him. Just no awareness of what he should do at key moments .

 

[3KZ is Football]

I nearly mentioned Cam as well in that post you quoted, I still (maybe naively) have hope Cam will breakout.

Do you worry about the affect it could have on the playing group like I do 3KZ?

Berry and Rayner are very close to the hub of the wheel that is our "culture/vibe" IMO.

Not really. If Berry and Rayner are close to the hub of our culture and vibe, that might be part of the issue.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I wouldn't have the guts to say it so I'll let you suffer the feedback but his attitude in those dying minutes of the first and second had me jumping out of my seat . And a few hardnuts I was with had better expletives than me.

That has sort of swung my feelings about him. Just no awareness of what he should do at key moments .

Chicken

After six seasons you would expect more.

 

[Tom14]

Berry is off contract next year isn’t he? I wonder if we get the same output from him next year the club starts to consider moving on themselves, although as you say I guess club culture needs to be weighed up in that scenario.

Not sure we will have a better option in the short term. Certainly I don't expect that his next contract would be top of the market.

Considering that we have 2 seasons left at the Gabba before we are homeless we probably should be thinking more short-term to maximise our window in the next 2 seasons, no guarantee that we have a perfect replacement home ground solution.

The more the Qld government dither the more I worry that we'll be left with a combination of games against low-support opposition at Springfield with some temporary stands, some games at metripong against the bigger clubs so their fans can come up to the gold coast for a holiday, and selling some home games interstate to make some $.

 

[M Malice]

Not really. If Berry and Rayner are close to the hub of our culture and vibe, that might be part of the issue.

I'm not in that ball park 3KZ, yesterday was hard to take but we were despite being below our best* still in the game until 20 seconds to go.

*Collingwood would of had a lot to do with this, it makes me dry retch to even post it but they were the better team by a fair way.

 

[martinson]

Not sure we will have a better option in the short term. Certainly I don't expect that his next contract would be top of the market.

Considering that we have 2 seasons left at the Gabba before we are homeless we probably should be thinking more short-term to maximise our window in the next 2 seasons, no guarantee that we have a perfect replacement home ground solution.

The more the Qld government dither the more I worry that we'll be left with a combination of games against low-support opposition at Springfield with some temporary stands, some games at metripong against the bigger clubs so their fans can come up to the gold coast for a holiday, and selling some home games interstate to make some $.

Perfect summation that you can see unfolding. I've also heard a whisper that the Far North might get a game or two.

We need to go really hard the next 2 years. This is it for us imo.

 

[Dodongo]

I wouldn't have the guts to say it so I'll let you suffer the feedback but his attitude in those dying minutes of the first and second had me jumping out of my seat . And a few hardnuts I was with had better expletives than me.

That has sort of swung my feelings about him. Just no awareness of what he should do at key moments .

Dodongo thinks Rayner's only position is deep forward. Keep him there. He will never have the capacity to play anywhere else around the ground permanently. Play him where he is good.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I'm not in that ball park 3KZ, yesterday was hard to take but we were despite being below our best* still in the game until 20 seconds to go.

*Collingwood would have had a lot to do with this, it makes me dry retch to even post it but they were the better team by a fair way.

That’s true. They were a better team.

 

[twhowler]

Fort should be given a go as second ruck and third key forward. Has played well there before.

Just means our small forwards need to work harder.

Pies played 2 rucks and still had 40 more possessions. They ran harder to cover our options and present their own.

We had 1/5 in top players in terms of distance covered

1/5 in distance at high speed

1/5 total sprints

1/5 repeat sprints

Mids and wings just worked harder even with an extra ruck

Need to do some proper running over summer

 

[Tom14]

Perfect summation that you can see unfolding. I've also heard a whisper that the Far North might get a game or two.

We need to go really hard the next 2 years. This is it for us imo.

Kinda makes sense with the age profile of our forward line. We'll be reaching the late stages of Joe and Charlie's careers in 2 seasons, Lachie will be 33 at the start of the 2026 season. You'd expect us to be reaching a point of requiring a mini-rebuild.

Thankfully father sons will re-stock the midfield for us, but up forward we will need to draft and develop well with later picks for a few years. I don't think we'll have the money or picks to bring in a significant player in 2024 with the need to re-sign clug and a few others, but would be great to pick off a replacement for Joe in 2025/6.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Does free agency start Friday?

 

[Squizz89]

Does free agency start Friday?

Yep & trades tomorrow week.

 

[Mayestro]

I’m of the firm opinion you don’t trade players that are the fabric of your club. These blokes are vital. Huge on and off the field for the lions and in my personally opinion should and will be one club players. Entering their prime years from now. They are the future.

We’ve spent years improving our player culture to the point where players want to come here. To trade on two heart and soul players would ruin all that. It would be Rischitelli/Bradshaw trade level of ineptitude. In any event Fagan‘s mantra is backing people and players to improve so there would be no chance of moving them on against their will. And I think they have improvement in them, especially Rayner.

 

[dlanod]

Anyone calling for Rayner, Hipwood or anyone best 22 to be traded are short sighted. If we are to truly improve we need to focus on improving the team to the point where your whipping boy of choice is no longer best 22, then let them go.

If we let them go with no replacement lined up, we'll be starting Joe B. Listclogger that we took with pick 57 and be demonstrably worse the following year.

 

[Thomasno]

I nearly mentioned Cam as well in that post you quoted, I still (maybe naively) have hope Cam will breakout.

Do you worry about the affect it could have on the playing group like I do 3KZ?

Berry and Rayner are very close to the hub of the wheel that is our "culture/vibe" IMO.

Cam especially quite literally seems to be the heart and soul of the club. I worry if we tried to move him on it would be like Bradshaw and then everything just falls apart around us.

Tbh I like you still have hope for him though. I really do think that his inconsistency is not entirely his fault, given he doesn’t really seem to have a defined role. Doesn’t help that all preseason and early on in the year he was earmarked in defence lol. Need to give him an actually useful role going into next year and hopefully he finds some purpose

 

[Thomasno]

Not sure we will have a better option in the short term. Certainly I don't expect that his next contract would be top of the market.

Considering that we have 2 seasons left at the Gabba before we are homeless we probably should be thinking more short-term to maximise our window in the next 2 seasons, no guarantee that we have a perfect replacement home ground solution.

The more the Qld government dither the more I worry that we'll be left with a combination of games against low-support opposition at Springfield with some temporary stands, some games at metripong against the bigger clubs so their fans can come up to the gold coast for a holiday, and selling some home games interstate to make some $.

I thought Metricon and Springfield had been ruled out? Down to RNA/QSAC

Pretty sure Dom Fay said he ran into someone at the QF who would definitely know, and essentially told him what the plan was and that a decision had been more or less made. Expect an announcement soon

 

[Saintsone]

Not really. If Berry and Rayner are close to the hub of our culture and vibe, that might be part of the issue.

What issue ,grand final was lost by a kick,

 

[Macca225]

I nearly mentioned Cam as well in that post you quoted, I still (maybe naively) have hope Cam will breakout.

Do you worry about the affect it could have on the playing group like I do 3KZ?

Berry and Rayner are very close to the hub of the wheel that is our "culture/vibe" IMO.

Dusty didn't really have a break out year until his 4th year. Rayner is 1 year behind with his knee, I think there's still time for him. I would like to see him maybe have a big running preseason and lose some muscle/weight to improve his tank, he'll always be a powerful player.

 

[Tom14]

I thought Metricon and Springfield had been ruled out? Down to RNA/QSAC

Pretty sure Dom Fay said he ran into someone at the QF who would definitely know, and essentially told him what the plan was and that a decision had been more or less made. Expect an announcement soon

Greg Swann was quoted in the Australian a few days ago saying that the options were an expansion of Springfield or the RNA showgrounds. Suggestion from the Australian was that the government was still considering Metricon and QSAC. I can't get past the paywall but this podcast has an interview with the reporter talking through the story:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/the-lions-long-goodbye-to-the-gabba/audio/cdfa2697b123358306eedca1f135a409

 

[cotter101]

Fort is not the answer. Chol has some appeal with the lack of our tall options. I know the club rate Smith, but he isn’t ready.

Interested to see what player we target in the draft.

 

[3KZ is Football]

What issue ,grand final was lost by a kick,

That we lost the Grand Final by a kick is an issue. Rayner not getting a single possession in the last quarter is an issue and having two disposals for the second half is an issue.

 

[eaglevision]

Pardon the interruption and commiserations, a great season under Chris Fagan. Split opinions on our board about getting Dev Robertson over. F3 (pick 37 based on this year) seems consensus, any genuine mail on which way he’s leaning? Would have thought with 2 Ashcrofts inbound next year (one later in the season obviously) there isn’t too much room in the Lions midfield for him?

 

[JasRulz63]

Pardon the interruption and commiserations, a great season under Chris Fagan. Split opinions on our board about getting Dev Robertson over. F3 (pick 37 based on this year) seems consensus, any genuine mail on which way he’s leaning? Would have thought with 2 Ashcrofts inbound next year (one later in the season obviously) there isn’t too much room in the Lions midfield for him?

WAshcroft doesn't return from his ACL until late next season and LAshcroft is draft eligible next year so won't play until at least 2025. If he stays, he's still got a year to break into the midfield rotation; I personally think we would be a more balanced side if we had someone like Robertson spending more time in the middle.

This is the closest we have in terms of genuine mail:

Dev will stay which is a positive.

Apparently he’s told someone at the function tonight that he’s already put pen to paper.

 

[briztoon]

Pardon the interruption and commiserations, a great season under Chris Fagan. Split opinions on our board about getting Dev Robertson over. F3 (pick 37 based on this year) seems consensus, any genuine mail on which way he’s leaning? Would have thought with 2 Ashcrofts inbound next year (one later in the season obviously) there isn’t too much room in the Lions midfield for him?

Realistically, if Dev was to request a trade, a mid 30’s pick would be his trade value.