List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[Warwick]

He is.

But I can’t think of any other delisted free agents that might still have some upside or growth left in their game, that we could pick up on rookie contract.

I’m looking for solid depth squad players, who will be behind the likes of Robertson and Tunstill, particularly if Mathieson moves on this offseason, and Lyons next offseason.

Yeah I agree we need some mature depth to plug a hole if we get hit by injuries in a premiership window.

Just don’t think Hately is it.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah I agree we need some mature depth to plug a hole if we get hit by injuries in a premiership window.

Just don’t think Hately is it.

Open to discussing other options.

We definitely need another tall forward for depth, other than a fresh faced draftee, or Gunston.

Speaking of which. I wonder if Gunston is prepared to spend a season running out for the reserves?

 

[T Rick]

Seeing the annual merry-go-round of rucks and back up rucks unfold across the League, full kudos to our list management team for locking away Oscar and Darcy before the end of the season.

 

[CarterS]

 

[dlanod]

They said "could" just so they can say anything.

 

[iBeng]

They said "could" just so they can say anything.

Just means we are days away from the Neale to Freo experts again!

 

[pod17]

Yeah I agree we need some mature depth to plug a hole if we get hit by injuries in a premiership window.

Just don’t think Hately is it.

I haven’t watched him closely enough to know if he’s got a good defensive game, but if he does he’d be worth looking at given his age and form in 2022 at AFL level. Looked to have a strong SANFL season this year too.

The Crows have a few inside midfield types which pushed him down the order a bit in terms of selection.

Bonner looks most suited off a half back flank which is obviously an area we have ample coverage so he’d be a better fit for another club.

 

[BangyBangy]

A player who may be looking for some more midfield minutes, especially now that Dev Robertson has re-signed.

FMD. How do you say I know nothing about the Brisbane Lions without saying I know nothing about the Brisbane Lions.

 

[Thomasno]

Love how 19 game players are nominating clubs these days…

He would have been delisted anyway imo.

Generally when someone nominates a club it’s because there’s actual interest and a mutual agreement, I think we’re largely past players going “I wanna go HERE” and the club in question laughing in their face

 

[Warwick]

Controversial opinion….

If someone comes hot for Berry, I’d explore it.

If we managed to turn his trade into a genuine winger we’d be a better team. I think his shoulders are just going to hold him back. And I think we can cover him.

However it could be devastating to team morale especially as Hugh, Cam, and Bez are so close.

 

[Sproj]

Generally when someone nominates a club it’s because there’s actual interest and a mutual agreement, I think we’re largely past players going “I wanna go HERE” and the club in question laughing in their face

Yeah the only time I can remember this not working was with Cedric Cox.

 

[BangyBangy]

Controversial opinion….

If someone comes hot for Berry, I’d explore it.

If we managed to turn his trade into a genuine winger we’d be a better team. I think his shoulders are just going to hold him back. And I think we can cover him.

However it could be devastating to team morale especially as Hugh, Cam, and Bez are so close.

 

[BuntonRules]

Controversial opinion….

If someone comes hot for Berry, I’d explore it.

If we managed to turn his trade into a genuine winger we’d be a better team. I think his shoulders are just going to hold him back. And I think we can cover him.

However it could be devastating to team morale especially as Hugh, Cam, and Bez are so close.

If he did go, it would be on his terms. I would imagine these 3 would have a bit of an idea what was going on.

 

[briztoon]

Generally when someone nominates a club it’s because there’s actual interest and a mutual agreement, I think we’re largely past players going “I wanna go HERE” and the club in question laughing in their face

Usually when a player nominates a team, that team has made a commitment to get the deal done.

Noble has spoken about the process before, so to many player agents.

Sometimes, especially for players still contracted, the players current team sets a very high asking price that the new team can not, or will not pay.

 

[Tom14]

Controversial opinion….

If someone comes hot for Berry, I’d explore it.

If we managed to turn his trade into a genuine winger we’d be a better team. I think his shoulders are just going to hold him back. And I think we can cover him.

However it could be devastating to team morale especially as Hugh, Cam, and Bez are so close.

Who is available out there this off-season that is a guaranteed better bet than him as a winger? I'm not opposed to holding off on re-signing Bez as he's out the end of next year and exploring alternatives, but I think it's too late now to organise something.

Generally nothing good happens when you make a late decision in trade period to make a significant move out of a best 22 player.

 

[Tom14]

Also, I know Bez made some shocking decisions in the GF but he's by far our best winger still. Jaspa probably goes past him at some stage in the next few years.

Some will say just move Clug back to the wing, but he's actually bloody effective as an inside mid, and with Ashcroft out until mid year we lack depth inside (good depth, not warm bodies). Its not a shock to me that his form improved the more inside mid minutes he got later in the year, just as his best ever streak of form was when Neale was injured in 2021.

 

[twhowler]

Also, I know Bez made some shocking decisions in the GF but he's by far our best winger still. Jaspa probably goes past him at some stage in the next few years.

Some will say just move Clug back to the wing, but he's actually bloody effective as an inside mid, and with Ashcroft out until mid year we lack depth inside (good depth, not warm bodies). Its not a shock to me that his form improved the more inside mid minutes he got later in the year, just as his best ever streak of form was when Neale was injured in 2021.

I thought he had quite a good prelim. Rough to get called too far. Had composure and hit some targets. Was our leading possession winner.

Also one of our best v the saints in a must-win game in round 24 in which a lot of players were down

 

[Tom14]

I thought he had quite a good prelim. Rough to get called too far. Had composure and hit some targets. Was our leading possession winner.

Also one of our best v the saints in a must-win game in round 24 in which a lot of players were down

If nothing else as well, if there is any chance that moving him on would make clug hesitate on re-signing its not worth it.

 

[missfinland]

Absolutely zero chance Bez goes anywhere. He is a lion and I reckon his old man has now moved up to Brisbane town now aswell.

 

[PTizzle]

Yeah I can see the argument for looking to get some value out of Berry on paper but from a culture/role POV I think we'd be nuts to trade him out at the moment. Big proponent of keeping this group's longer-term first team members together (within reason) while we push for a flag.

 

[Chezz]

Sure culture is important but Berry is by far our biggest liability in the 22 and it’s a street to second imo. If he’s considered the best winger we have it’s only because he’s the only one that gets full games there.

He plays a couple of decent games a season at best, but always gets a free pass. No doubt his bung shoulders have cost him playing a more suited inside role but as it stands he’s clearly the teams worst tackler, his disposal is poor and gives away bad free kicks in good positions all the time. The grand final wasn’t a one off. Hill won the medal, but Sidebottom absolutely destroyed us in GF and the wings is where it was won for the pies.

For us to take the next step we need to give guys like Fletcher full games there and long term I have no doubt will make us a better side.

With his shoulder issues I’d highly doubt he’d have any trade value at all tbh, so I can’t see any moves happening while contracted.

 

[AFLQLD]

We armchair experts often play the “ruthless to get success” card at this time of year but there is far more subtlety and nuance in managing a list than deciding that anyone is up for trade for a good offer. Trading a player on a whim has the potential to result in a terrible hit to the culture of the group. The retirements, requested trades and delistings are hard enough to take, even though it is understood to be part of the process - some of these guys are losing close friends, mentors, confidantes. It has to happen, but the place feels different afterwards. In particular in a sport like AFL the team is everything - no single player can shift the needle enough on their own to get success. So the management of people is also the management and sustaining of culture.

Losing a teammate unexpectedly, through a forced or begrudging trade has to be managed with far more sensitivity and avoided as much as possible. It makes people feel vulnerable and suspicious, whispers and rumours take hold and unity is affected. Culture resides in the people, not the club itself. Culture built on mistrust and whatever-it-takes becomes quickly toxic. The notion that a club should do anything to their people to get success, regardless of the effect on the people, is a recipe for the worst cultural traits to rise to the surface very quickly.

 

[pod17]

Sure culture is important but Berry is by far our biggest liability in the 22 and it’s a street to second imo. If he’s considered the best winger we have it’s only because he’s the only one that gets full games there.

He plays a couple of decent games a season at best, but always gets a free pass. No doubt his bung shoulders have cost him playing a more suited inside role but as it stands he’s clearly the teams worst tackler, his disposal is poor and gives away bad free kicks in good positions all the time. The grand final wasn’t a one off. Hill won the medal, but Sidebottom absolutely destroyed us in GF and the wings is where it was won for the pies.

For us to take the next step we need to give guys like Fletcher full games there and long term I have no doubt will make us a better side.

With his shoulder issues I’d highly doubt he’d have any trade value at all tbh, so I can’t see any moves happening while contracted.

Delivered like a sledgehammer, but there’s some truth to your post. However, like you said he is an integral part of the fabric and, maybe optimistically, I can see some of his flaws being worked through. For a start - in finals learning that he must lower the eyes and take the first option.

I posted on another thread expectations around his ability should be tempered. He will always be mid tier. But he can play a role - maybe a summer where he focuses on modelling more of Dunkley traits so we have another defensive midfield option is his best go. Like you, I see Fletcher going past him at some point soon, and would like to see a Prior or Starc (Answerth going back to the lockdown role) trialled in his wing position.

Certainly a big pre season coming up for him, but I think he can work hard and get himself back to being a valuable role player.

 

[Berrygood]

We armchair experts often play the “ruthless to get success” card at this time of year but there is far more subtlety and nuance in managing a list than deciding that anyone is up for trade for a good offer. Trading a player on a whim has the potential to result in a terrible hit to the culture of the group. The retirements, requested trades and delistings are hard enough to take, even though it is understood to be part of the process - some of these guys are losing close friends, mentors, confidantes. It has to happen, but the place feels different afterwards. In particular in a sport like AFL the team is everything - no single player can shift the needle enough on their own to get success. So the management of people is also the management and sustaining of culture.

Losing a teammate unexpectedly, through a forced or begrudging trade has to be managed with far more sensitivity and avoided as much as possible. It makes people feel vulnerable and suspicious, whispers and rumours take hold and unity is affected. Culture resides in the people, not the club itself. Culture built on mistrust and whatever-it-takes becomes quickly toxic. The notion that a club should do anything to their people to get success, regardless of the effect on the people, is a recipe for the worst cultural traits to rise to the surface very quickly.

Wonderfully said.

 

[briztoon]

We armchair experts often play the “ruthless to get success” card at this time of year but there is far more subtlety and nuance in managing a list than deciding that anyone is up for trade for a good offer. Trading a player on a whim has the potential to result in a terrible hit to the culture of the group. The retirements, requested trades and delistings are hard enough to take, even though it is understood to be part of the process - some of these guys are losing close friends, mentors, confidantes. It has to happen, but the place feels different afterwards. In particular in a sport like AFL the team is everything - no single player can shift the needle enough on their own to get success. So the management of people is also the management and sustaining of culture.

Losing a teammate unexpectedly, through a forced or begrudging trade has to be managed with far more sensitivity and avoided as much as possible. It makes people feel vulnerable and suspicious, whispers and rumours take hold and unity is affected. Culture resides in the people, not the club itself. Culture built on mistrust and whatever-it-takes becomes quickly toxic. The notion that a club should do anything to their people to get success, regardless of the effect on the people, is a recipe for the worst cultural traits to rise to the surface very quickly.

Exhibit A. Collingwood’s 2020 trade period, and subsequent 2021 season.

And I’m not sure any of Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips and Bosenavulagi were the culture guys were making Bez out to be.