List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[mpal6]

Which team did Mcclugage get traded to?

Let him sign the next extension and then I'll update my 3 year projection

 

[mpal6]

I don’t get it, either from the player or club point of view, but Brodie McLaughlin is being linked to the Bulldogs as a delisted free agent.

Western Bulldogs - depth key forwards career graveyard

 

[irel]

Which team did Mcclugage get traded to?

Not traded, moved to replace Andrews at CHB.

 

[Warwick]

Without sounding overly pessimistic, most contending teams feel like they will naturally evolve and continue to contend after their stars retire or get phased out. It rarely happens. The role players look good when surrounded by stars.

The reality is we need to win one in the next 2 years while we’ve still got Neale, Cameron and Daniher at their peak. We aren’t replacing them in an hurry. And a full Gabba to play in front of.

I don’t feel we’ll hit the depths of post 2004 by any means, and we should hopefully still be in and around the finals for a little while, but to be a genuine contender you need those superstars.

 

[Quigley]

Without sounding overly pessimistic, most contending teams feel like they will naturally evolve and continue to contend after their stars retire or get phased out. It rarely happens. The role players look good when surrounded by stars.

The reality is we need to win one in the next 2 years while we’ve still got Neale, Cameron and Daniher at their peak. We aren’t replacing them in an hurry. And a full Gabba to play in front of.

I don’t feel we’ll hit the depths of post 2004 by any means, and we should hopefully still be in and around the finals for a little while, but to be a genuine contender you need those superstars.

You can stay at the top if you keep the quality in the midfield which is what Geelong did. You can plug in players around them if you have have one of the best midfields in the competition. The Ashcroft boys are a godsend in this regard and should allow us to stay at the top for a while.

 

[briztoon]

Looked at Gold Coast’s draft points situation last night, doing some math (not a strong point of mine), projections where the bids might come, and how we can benefit.

They will still need to trade in some extra points.

Any later picks they trade in, will move up two or four spots in the draft order, depending on if they are used before or after the bid on GC’s second academy kid, and increase in their points value.

And there’s not a lot of teams in a position to trade later picks in this year’s draft, giving GC a significant points upgrade.

Two teams that are;

Essendon, if they want to trade 31, 35 & 61 to move up to pick 24. Essendon are paying a hefty price to essentially move up 5 spots in the draft though, and they’re moving pick 35 to the very back of the draft.

Fremantle, could potentially trade 34, 46, 60 & 64 to move up to pick 24. Their 3rd & 4th picks are already towards the back end of the draft, so they’re essentially trading out pick 46 to move up 8 spots in the draft, and shuffling their back end picks only a little further back.

Either trade gets GC a points upgrade, but still in a position of taking a minor points deficit on their future first round pick when a bid comes in for the third of their academy kids. And they’ll take a second round deficit when the bid comes in for the fourth of their academy kids.


I have two possible trades for us with Gold Coast, provided we have the 4 list spots available to take picks 30, 39, 51 & 54 to the draft.

Both are based acquiring the two future second round picks Gold Coast hold.

We can trade out of the second round of the draft, 30 and 39 for Gold Coasts two future second round picks. We keep 51 & 54, which are going to potentially move up 10 spots after GC, Bulldogs and Hawthorn use the 17 second and third round picks to match on 6 father son and academy kids.

Or we trade 39, 51 & 54 plus our future third round pick, for the two future second round picks from Gold Coast. We keep pick 30, which likely moves back a couple of spots in the draft order, and then our second pick is at the back end of the draft.

I’m guessing even though we take 4 picks to the draft, we only use 2, use a third to upgrade a rookie player, and push the fourth pick in to rookie draft, or keep it to sign a player during the SSP.

 

[twhowler]

I th

You can stay at the top if you keep the quality in the midfield which is what Geelong did. You can plug in players around them if you have have one of the best midfields in the competition. The Ashcroft boys are a godsend in this regard and should allow us to stay at the top for a while.

Yeah i can see this too.

We have Clugga and Dunkley good for several more years, both very good players.

Will Ashcroft a gun, just needs to come back well from knee. Pick 2.

Fletcher also looks very promising. Pick 12.

Levi is the biggest question mark but looks a very likely top 10.

Other clubs have to bottom-out to have 2 top 12 picks in their midfield. We get it from father sons in 3 drafts.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Without sounding overly pessimistic, most contending teams feel like they will naturally evolve and continue to contend after their stars retire or get phased out. It rarely happens. The role players look good when surrounded by stars.

The reality is we need to win one in the next 2 years while we’ve still got Neale, Cameron and Daniher at their peak. We aren’t replacing them in an hurry. And a full Gabba to play in front of.

I don’t feel we’ll hit the depths of post 2004 by any means, and we should hopefully still be in and around the finals for a little while, but to be a genuine contender you need those superstars.

Absolutely agree. It is now or never over the next few seasons for this group. I'd think being ultra agressive in Free Agency in the 2025-2026 years could be important to keep us in the top 4

 

[Happy_Neale]

Well he finished 3rd the year before

True it’s all relative I suppose

 

[lionshine]

McCluggage, Dunkley, Ashcroft brothers, Fletcher, potentially Marshall plus guns around the flanks like Bailey, Kiddy and Wilmot. The critical one will be having a splash at recruiting a gun key forward to replace Joe. If we can do that I think we can stay in the top 4 post the Neale, Cameron and Daniher era. Noting we will still have Hipwood, Andrews and Payne around.

 

[mpal6]

McCluggage, Dunkley, Ashcroft brothers, Fletcher, potentially Marshall plus guns around the flanks like Bailey, Kiddy and Wilmot. The critical one will be having a splash at recruiting a gun key forward to replace Joe. If we can do that I think we can stay in the top 4 post the Neale, Cameron and Daniher era. Noting we will still have Hipwood, Andrews and Payne around.

Hoping we find a bargain tall forward late pick who emerges like Larkey did for North. Struggle is to find one and hope they're available at our pick. I'm on the Weatherill bandwagon for now.

 

[p4p1]

We need a midfield refresh as well with Neale getting to 31 next May. If Rayner doesn't step up to that role, I think Wilmot has the highest potential to adapt to it. We have Shadeau Brain getting some good reviews playing HBF in VFL. Prior is another hybrid utility who can play in defense as well as higher up the ground. We should take advantage of where there is excess wealth and see if we can spend it elsewhere. Out of McKenna, Kiddy, Wilmot - I see Wilmot as the one capable of moving into our future midfield/wing role.

3 years from now:
Wilmot Dunkley Fletcher
RR: Big O(32), WAshcroft, LAshcroft/Tunstill/Robertson

From listening to Hugh and Rayner speak on the podcast both are big fans of Fletch and thing he will be on the inside sometime in the future. 3 years is a long time.

 

[p4p1]

See the Bulldogs have to copy my idea to play 23 full-forwards in one side

If one great FF can get you 65-70 goals a season, it makes sense that a 23 of them would get you, on a conservative estimate 1100 goals per season. 1100 x 6 = 6600 point for, without taking into account points. Collingwood only had 2142 points for this year. It's genius really. As they say the best form of defence is a great offence.

 

[mpal6]

Looked at Gold Coast’s draft points situation last night, doing some math (not a strong point of mine), projections where the bids might come, and how we can benefit.

They will still need to trade in some extra points.

Any later picks they trade in, will move up two or four spots in the draft order, depending on if they are used before or after the bid on GC’s second academy kid, and increase in their points value.

And there’s not a lot of teams in a position to trade later picks in this year’s draft, giving GC a significant points upgrade.

Two teams that are;

Essendon, if they want to trade 31, 35 & 61 to move up to pick 24. Essendon are paying a hefty price to essentially move up 5 spots in the draft though, and they’re moving pick 35 to the very back of the draft.

Fremantle, could potentially trade 34, 46, 60 & 64 to move up to pick 24. Their 3rd & 4th picks are already towards the back end of the draft, so they’re essentially trading out pick 46 to move up 8 spots in the draft, and shuffling their back end picks only a little further back.

Either trade gets GC a points upgrade, but still in a position of taking a minor points deficit on their future first round pick when a bid comes in for the third of their academy kids. And they’ll take a second round deficit when the bid comes in for the fourth of their academy kids.


I have two possible trades for us with Gold Coast, provided we have the 4 list spots available to take picks 30, 39, 51 & 54 to the draft.

Both are based acquiring the two future second round picks Gold Coast hold.

We can trade out of the second round of the draft, 30 and 39 for Gold Coasts two future second round picks. We keep 51 & 54, which are going to potentially move up 10 spots after GC, Bulldogs and Hawthorn use the 17 second and third round picks to match on 6 father son and academy kids.

Or we trade 39, 51 & 54 plus our future third round pick, for the two future second round picks from Gold Coast. We keep pick 30, which likely moves back a couple of spots in the draft order, and then our second pick is at the back end of the draft.

I’m guessing even though we take 4 picks to the draft, we only use 2, use a third to upgrade a rookie player, and push the fourth pick in to rookie draft, or keep it to sign a player during the SSP.

Even 30 is a gamble anyway. I like your option of trading our best 2 picks for future ones. Everyone will be trying to move up and we are going the other way, so the chances of this happening is easier and we'll have less competition hopefully.

Let's take the gamble with the later picks regardless of where it is.

 

[peasantbruh69]

We need a midfield refresh as well with Neale getting to 31 next May. If Rayner doesn't step up to that role, I think Wilmot has the highest potential to adapt to it. We have Shadeau Brain getting some good reviews playing HBF in VFL. Prior is another hybrid utility who can play in defense as well as higher up the ground. We should take advantage of where there is excess wealth and see if we can spend it elsewhere. Out of McKenna, Kiddy, Wilmot - I see Wilmot as the one capable of moving into our future midfield/wing role.

3 years from now:
Wilmot Dunkley Fletcher
RR: Big O(32), WAshcroft, LAshcroft/Tunstill/Robertson

I've always wondered about the possibility of Starcevich getting some midfield minutes. Strong, fast, defensively minded, potential to shut down a degoey if required (don't think Dunkley can keep up on the spread). Gardiner/Prior/Wilmot can share lockdown duties.

I also think Prior should've been best 22 all year, will be an important addition next season wherever he can fit in.

Also is Madden still on the list?

 

[CarterS]

Re-sign Hugh McCluggage

6

Hugh Mccluggage

Age

26

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.3

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

D

19.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

and Coleman yesterday please!! I hope both get massive pay rises!

 

[lionshine]

I've always wondered about the possibility of Starcevich getting some midfield minutes. Strong, fast, defensively minded, potential to shut down a degoey if required (don't think Dunkley can keep up on the spread). Gardiner/Prior/Wilmot can share lockdown duties.

I also think Prior should've been best 22 all year, will be an important addition next season wherever he can fit in.

Also is Madden still on the list?

Yeah Madden got a 1 year extension for 2024

 

[Shinboner1]

 

[Mighty Lions]

Re-sign Hugh McCluggage and Coleman yesterday please!! I hope both get massive pay rises!

I hope they dont but i do hope they get what is fair & reasonable. If we pay big $ for a few our list suffers further down. If we want them to all stay together, we need to manage the cap responsibly and in a way we hold all players at the club.

 

[AFLQLD]

The best player managers would understand the long term benefits of working well with a club at re-signing negotiations.

Players and good managers generally aren’t trying to ruthlessly squeeze every last cent out of their club. Their managers might test their value in the marketplace but if the player is happy with the conditions and the club’s future, very few will move just for a few extra dollars. A huge amount of dollars, maybe, but even then…

I think once the club offer falls within the window of what is considered fair and reasonable, a happy player is much more likely to re-sign than not.

The movements of established players are likely to get more opportunity, a different role, a longer contract or a nicer workplace. A good manager wants a happy appropriately-compensated player because they are easiest to manage and build the manager’s reputation with clubs and future players.

I’m sure there are nightmare managers but most would want the best deal that keeps their player happy. Plenty of players would accept a fair bit less if they got a better shot at a flag. And that is also probably better for the manager in the long term.

 

[BuntonRules]

As an aside, love the total amateurs that love the game so much they put out stuff like this.

 

[Section 5]

Shaun Mannagh a forward/midfielder was pretty good in the VFL this year and looks like he may go into the draft.
Our club should have had a good look at him in round 1 and again in the final we lost to Werribee.
We could do worse than give him a chance unless someone else picks him up.

Mannagh 175cm and 80kg. Similar size to Zorko 175cm 82kg and McCarthy 178cm and 82kg
Would play 11 months of 2024 as a 26-year-old. So still 5 years left in him if he makes the transition to AFL.

Looking at the below highlights clip he moves a lot like Zorko.
Knows how to kick a goal with 83 goals 58 behinds in only 47 games.
Averages over the 47 games: Disposals 22, Tackles 5.4, Marks 4.

Clubs 'significantly interested' in standout Werribee duo

Departing Werribee coach Michael Barlow says Shaun Mannagh and Sam Clohesy deserve to be on an AFL list after standout seasons at VFL level

www.afl.com.au

- Shaun Mannagh

vfl.aflmstats.com

 

[Mighty Lions]

The best player managers would understand the long term benefits of working well with a club at re-signing negotiations.

Players and good managers generally aren’t trying to ruthlessly squeeze every last cent out of their club. Their managers might test their value in the marketplace but if the player is happy with the conditions and the club’s future, very few will move just for a few extra dollars. A huge amount of dollars, maybe, but even then…

I think once the club offer falls within the window of what is considered fair and reasonable, a happy player is much more likely to re-sign than not.

The movements of established players are likely to get more opportunity, a different role, a longer contract or a nicer workplace. A good manager wants a happy appropriately-compensated player because they are easiest to manage and build the manager’s reputation with clubs and future players.

I’m sure there are nightmare managers but most would want the best deal that keeps their player happy. Plenty of players would accept a fair bit less if they got a better shot at a flag. And that is also probably better for the manager in the long term.

One of the biggest and allegedly the better managers doesnt care about anything you mention above....takes all kinds in this world....especially at this time.

 

[Berrygood]

McCluggage and Coleman, you'd think the club would be offering 5yr deals for both. There wouldn't be too many to disagree with that. Would anyone consider a longer deal for either? I'd also think 800k a yr is a fair starting point. If they're happy, they can obviously see where the club is situated. Sponser their outside interests, hell build a school high in Nepal for Clugg. He can get some high altitude training in while he's there. Sweeten the pot in any way you can. Get the numbers right and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't re-sign.

I do wonder tho, if the Gabba shut down will be playing a part in any long term contract deals. I'd rather see money spent on upgrading Springfield to a 15-25,000 seat ground than spend it on the showgrounds. I reckon with some ANZ stadium type bench seating grandstands. The cheap seats. Put them along the wings at Springfield, bump the numbers up to 20,000 and youd have an intimidating little home ground. Anyway I'm sure there's another thread for that.

 

[Dalions]

McCluggage and Coleman, you'd think the club would be offering 5yr deals for both. There wouldn't be too many to disagree with that. Would anyone consider a longer deal for either? I'd also think 800k a yr is a fair starting point. If they're happy, they can obviously see where the club is situated. Sponser their outside interests, hell build a school high in Nepal for Clugg. He can get some high altitude training in while he's there. Sweeten the pot in any way you can. Get the numbers right and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't re-sign.

I do wonder tho, if the Gabba shut down will be playing a part in any long term contract deals. I'd rather see money spent on upgrading Springfield to a 15-25,000 seat ground than spend it on the showgrounds. I reckon with some ANZ stadium type bench seating grandstands. The cheap seats. Put them along the wings at Springfield, bump the numbers up to 20,000 and youd have an intimidating little home ground. Anyway I'm sure there's another thread for that.

Not sure off hand how long Coleman has been on the list but I could see him taking a contract through to Free Agency and then re-assess after that.
But could see Clugga getting a 7yr deal with the way things sit currently in the AFL system.