Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[KeeperLeaguer]

Do we plan on taking him KL?

He's in the mix. Definitely one we'll be considering.

 

[Colloquy]

You have to be in it to win!

This or next year to our knowledge the Hawks have been the BEST offer to date. The closest to the eagles demands!

All we can do is make the offer

If we got the number 1 pick with this years for and next years first.

How do we then get Smith if we really want him we can only get one or the other.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

If we got the number 1 pick with this years for and next years first.

How do we then get Smith if we really want him we can only get one or the other.

Who’s to say we’re still into Smith after we have good Reid ?

 

[hawkmang]

Guess you will just have to settle for Bonar / Hardwick

A Hardwick Bonar is more than likely to get us into trouble with the masseuse team

 

[DrAbs]

He's in the mix. Definitely one we'll be considering.

Is it possible that we don't select Calsher Dear in the national draft and pick him up as a rookie?

And after the McCabe bid is sorted, do you think we'd be any chance to trade up to a top 30-32 pick using one of our 40s and something else? Idk how many future assets we're able to trade out but I'd love for us to be aggressive and move up the board after our first pick and McCabe, like we did for Weddle last year.

Sam Mitchell said there's no speed limit to what we can achieve. From a draft perspective, I personally think it would huge for us to keep trying to trade future assets for picks in the current draft because it speeds up the process we're on. Having said that, idk if we're able to given limited list spots and limited assets as well, but if we could it would be massive!

 

[Mojo]

Is it possible that we don't select Calsher Dear in the national draft and pick him up as a rookie?

And after the McCabe bid is sorted, do you think we'd be any chance to trade up to a top 30-32 pick using one of our 40s and something else? Idk how many future assets we're able to trade out but I'd love for us to be aggressive and move up the board after our first pick and McCabe, like we did for Weddle last year.

Sam Mitchell said there's no speed limit to what we can achieve. From a draft perspective, I personally think it would huge for us to keep trying to trade future assets for picks in the current draft because it speeds up the process we're on. Having said that, idk if we're able to given limited list spots and limited assets as well, but if we could it would be massive!

Dear is more likely to fall to the Rookie Draft. His last month of Coates footy piqued the interest of several clubs, though.

He's like a lump of clay - very raw but he has AFL potential.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

A Hardwick Bonar is more than likely to get us into trouble with the masseuse team

You can add Blanck into the mix too. I'm sure there's a joke to be had there.

 

[Bugs1977]

Other than Reid, I don't know much about the the draftees. It's all a speculative pick anyway until they pull up a jumper for a senior AFL game and keep that form for the majority of the year.

But if was a choice between Watson or Duursma- I would take the bigger, taller player everytime (unless he was Cyril, a generational player)

That you Bevo?

 

[Bugs1977]

To be fair KeeperLeaguer was spot on with most he had said.

Agreed. If anything I think KeeperLeaguer has been way too generous with his info. For what it's worth all our ITK's go through the same cr@p every year KL. Just let it be know that your info is well appreciated.

 

[Dewnior]

two high single digit picks THIS year is what is wanted. forget future picks they are worth less (even ours).

Future picks can be traded for 2023 picks up until the end of the draft. If Eagles dodo in fact only want 2023 picks, then I'm sure they have already started asking clubs what they would give for our F1.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

Is it possible that we don't select Calsher Dear in the national draft and pick him up as a rookie?

And after the McCabe bid is sorted, do you think we'd be any chance to trade up to a top 30-32 pick using one of our 40s and something else? Idk how many future assets we're able to trade out but I'd love for us to be aggressive and move up the board after our first pick and McCabe, like we did for Weddle last year.

Sam Mitchell said there's no speed limit to what we can achieve. From a draft perspective, I personally think it would huge for us to keep trying to trade future assets for picks in the current draft because it speeds up the process we're on. Having said that, idk if we're able to given limited list spots and limited assets as well, but if we could it would be massive!

Dear really came on a bit in the latter stages and as Mojo said he's gathered some interest so we don't really think he'll still be there as a rookie. Personally I'd say zero chance he slips to the rookie draft. There's no guarantee we'll take him however as there's two players in the 30-40 range that we also like as speculative picks.
A lot of people have said we'd leave one list spot open for the MSD considering our recent successes but that's not the current thinking. We're pretty happy with where we are at the moment and if the players we might want at the latter stages are there we might have a full list by the end of the draft.

It's WAY too early right now. Last year for example we were a 50-50 split on Mackenzie & Phillipou right till the end. Early days it was mostly Phillipou. Matter of fact, the day before the draft it looked like we were going with Phillipou.

Just goes to show it worked out pretty well though. Made the right choice. We wanted Phillipou not so much for his forward craft but because we wanted a big-bodied mid who could bullock the opposition and we weren't convinced Nash would continue on his form in 2022.
Now, I've no doubt Phillipou wil become a very good footballer but Nashy has gone from strength to strength and has become irreplaceable. Conor is one of my favourites right now.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

Agreed. If anything I think KeeperLeaguer has been way too generous with his info. For what it's worth all our ITK's go through the same cr@p every year KL. Just let it be know that your info is well appreciated.

For the record, I don't consider myself an ITK. I don't break stories like RnL. I don't like the label , but I've made no secret where I am and am happy to pass on what I know (up to a point).

 

[stillahawk]

That you Bevo?

Nice one, I know what you're getting at.

I can name only 2 players in the AFL right now with Watson's stature that are better than average. Caleb Daniel and Kozzy Pickett.

Two players within the entire AFL populous that are the exception rather than the rule.

My point is a player like DGB may be a gun half back flanker/ CHB as a junior but put in AFL system may struggle.but because of his height, he can be tried out as a forward and all is not lost.

If Watson's attributes like speed is nullified because players in the AFL are bigger and quicker, it would harder to find another position for him in other parts of the ground and would be a waste of a high pick if his skills fail to translate in senior level AFL

 

[spudmaster]

Ignore the spuds, thoroughly enjoying your input KL, especially with RnL MIA

Come at me bro!

 

[Bugs1977]

Nice one, I know what you're getting at.

I can name only 2 players in the AFL right now with Watson's stature that are better than average. Caleb Daniel and Kozzy Pickett.

Two players within the entire AFL populous that are the exception rather than the rule.

My point is a player like DGB may be a gun half back flanker/ CHB as a junior but put in AFL system may struggle.but because of his height, he can be tried out as a forward and all is not lost.

If Watson's attributes like speed is nullified because players in the AFL are bigger and quicker, it would harder to find another position for him in other parts of the ground and would be a waste of a high pick if his skills fail to translate in senior level AFL

So let me get this straight your first comment on this topic was and I quote…

Other than Reid, I don't know much about the the draftees. It's all a speculative pick anyway until they pull up a jumper for a senior AFL game and keep that form for the majority of the year.

But if was a choice between Watson or Duursma- I would take the bigger, taller player everytime (unless he was Cyril, a generational player)

What I would like to know is how the f@ck can you properly asses Watson if you don't know much about him??? The talent he has which is to hunt down the ball and kick goals is something that will still be there no matter what level of football he is playing. Throw in on top of this that he can jump on your head like Poppy used to and you have a freaking highlight machine with x-factor that we haven't had since a certain #33 played for the Hawks. Goal kickers are born not taught!

 

[Bugs1977]

For the record, I don't consider myself an ITK. I don't break stories like RnL. I don't like the label , but I've made no secret where I am and am happy to pass on what I know (up to a point).

Totally understandable. ITK is up there with words like 'cringe' so I feel you. Either way the intel you lay on us is appreciated.

 

[LegendLewis]

Anybody have an update or read on where Clay Tucker is in his development?

 

[stillahawk]

So let me get this straight your first comment on this topic was and I quote…


What I would like to know is how the f@ck can you properly asses Watson if you don't know much about him??? The talent he has which is to hunt down the ball and kick goals is something that will still be there no matter what level of football he is playing. Throw in on top of this that he can jump on your head like Poppy used to and you have a freaking highlight machine with x-factor that we haven't had since a certain #33 played for the Hawks. Goal kickers are born not taught!

Ease up fella, there's no need to get worked up.

All I'm saying is that it's a bigger risk to take when using up a top 5 pick on a small forward. These types could be picked up in the late teens or further down.in the draft.

It's merely an opinion and I'm entitled to express mine without copping abuse.

 

[The Chad and I]

I love Cyril like few players I have had the pleasure of watching.

Cyril, Dunstall, Buddy... probably my all-time favourites.

Even so, if his draft was done over again today, I think the consensus among club recruiters would be something like:

1. Patrick Dangerfield
2. Alex Rance

Alex Rance

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

226.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.0

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.6

5star

3. Harry Taylor
4. Cyril Rioli
5. Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

34

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

6. Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

7. Ben McEvoy

7

Ben Mcevoy

Age

35

Ht

200cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

4.7

2star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

8.5

2star

K

3.9

1star

HB

4.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.8

3star

G

0.4

3star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

That's in hindsight and one of the BEST EVER small forwards, in one of the WORST drafts for top-end talent - still only pick 4.

You wanna take the risk that Watson is going to be as good as Cyril in a draft that has an exceptionally good top 8 or so players.
OK - that's a risk-weighted pick of around 7-9.
Watson is not worth a pick 4 when you have better risk-weighted options.

Again, this is all subjective.
Everybody is entitled to their view.
I will not be disappointed if we take him at 4 bc I have faith in MM to make the right call.

 

[hawkinoz]

Dear really came on a bit in the latter stages and as Mojo said he's gathered some interest so we don't really think he'll still be there as a rookie. Personally I'd say zero chance he slips to the rookie draft. There's no guarantee we'll take him however as there's two players in the 30-40 range that we also like as speculative picks.
A lot of people have said we'd leave one list spot open for the MSD considering our recent successes but that's not the current thinking. We're pretty happy with where we are at the moment and if the players we might want at the latter stages are there we might have a full list by the end of the draft.

It's WAY too early right now. Last year for example we were a 50-50 split on Mackenzie & Phillipou right till the end. Early days it was mostly Phillipou. Matter of fact, the day before the draft it looked like we were going with Phillipou.

Just goes to show it worked out pretty well though. Made the right choice. We wanted Phillipou not so much for his forward craft but because we wanted a big-bodied mid who could bullock the opposition and we weren't convinced Nash would continue on his form in 2022.
Now, I've no doubt Phillipou wil become a very good footballer but Nashy has gone from strength to strength and has become irreplaceable. Conor is one of my favourites right now.

Would you be able to shed light on the avenues for us picking these 2 players in the 30-40 draft range.

Our picks in 40's will get eaten on when McCabe gets bid on, say at pick 19( going by Cal's draft), that means we need around 780 points to match. We would likely have around 1350 points at that stage( after Suns bids move our picks higher). Our 3 40's pick will get used up for McCabe bid and we would likely to be left with 3 late 50's pick by then.

We only have F2 pies and not sure if any of the below clubs(excluding Suns) with the picks are going to trade do the trade. If we had a F3, we would have had better chance.

Is there a chance of asking for a friendly club to help us. Say Sydney take our pick 44 for their F3 before McCabe bid and then trade their 45 for F2(pies). The 45 should be around pick 42 then.

30	Brisbane (tied to Geelong)
31	Essendon
32	Gold Coast (tied to Adelaide)
33	Collingwood (received from Hawthorn in Jack Ginnivan trade, tied to Western Bulldogs)
34	Fremantle (received from Collingwood in Lachie Schultz trade; Collingwood received from Sydney in Taylor Adams trade)
35	Essendon (received from St Kilda in four-club trade)
36	Gold Coast (received from Melbourne in pick swap)
37	West Coast (tied to Port Adelaide)
38	Gold Coast (tied to Greater Western Sydney)
39	Brisbane (received from Hawthorn in Jack-Gunston-Brandon Ryan trade, Haw received from Coll in Jack Ginnivan trade, tied to Carlton)
40	St Kilda (received from Western Bulldogs in four-club trade, tied to Brisbane)
41	Richmond (received from Port Adelaide in Ivan Soldo trade, tied to Collingwood)
42	Melbourne (James Jordon compensation pick)
43	Greater Western Sydney (Matt Flynn compensation pick)

ROUND THREE​
44	Hawthorn (received from West Coast in Tyler Brockman trade)

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cool, a success story of a player picked up as a FA.
Remember picking up FA Ty Vickery?

Our need is not for half back flankers with our current squad depth in that area, especially with CJ missing this whole year almost. In 2017, we just lost Brad Hill and needed wing and ultimately half back depth (due to injury) desperately. It made sense to get Henderson.

This is a horrible argument.

We had no fit ruckman on the list apart from McEvoy who had back issues and a 20yr old Pittonett. Ceglar ACL. Rough cancer.

Henderson came to us as a halfback, a delisted one at that. We played him in position we thought he would excel at, and he did.

 

[Colloquy]

Who’s to say we’re still into Smith after we have good Reid ?

True but I feel Smith to Mitchell was Wingard to Clarko.

 

[The Chad and I]

boohooo someone didn't alleviate your anxiety during trade week and tell you EXACTLY what would happen ahead of time!!!

Noooo, you don't understand....they're getting CREDIT for being ITK and this is a grave injustice, I must voice my anger CONSTANTLY forevermore!!!! You shouldn't be called ITK if you are not ITK, this is a sacred title that must be earned. No I am not angry or stressed, bro what do you mean go outside, I have a life, I don't just post on Bigfooty you knw... i also post on reddit, 4chan...where i repeat previously popular and witty comments other people made...they love me there

FFS listen to yourselves.
We're all just here to chat sh!t and pass the time.
Chill out man.

 

[spudmaster]

boohooo someone didn't alleviate your anxiety during trade week and tell you EXACTLY what would happen ahead of time!!!

Noooo, you don't understand....they're getting CREDIT for being ITK and this is a grave injustice, I must voice my anger CONSTANTLY forevermore!!!! You shouldn't be called ITK if you are not ITK, this is a sacred title that must be earned. No I am not angry or stressed, bro what do you mean go outside, I have a life, I don't just post on Bigfooty you knw... i also post on reddit, 4chan...where i repeat previously popular and witty comments other people made...they love me there

FFS listen to yourselves.
We're all just here to chat sh!t and pass the time.
Chill out man.

You good bruv?

 

[The Chad and I]

You good bruv?

Life is good.
Thanks for asking bruv.
you?