List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[Mowman]

TDK left out of the Carlton side again

4th round pick $450k a year

 

[SteeleSaints]

TDK left out of the Carlton side again

4th round pick $450k a year

Perhaps they already know he is leaving...?

 

[austinnn]

I'm really excited to follow the development of Adams, Keeler and Heath. We haven't really developed tall key backs or rucks apart from Marshall for the last 20 years and it's probably right now our most pressing need. If we can get all of those guys into our seniors at some stage this year and start pumping experience into them, we'll see how urgent our need for players like TDK or BMcKay are. Fingers crossed our boys make the jump soon because players like TDK don't excite me at all. I really want to develop our own rather than hunt guys like him or Georgiadis or Parish or whoever.

 

[Mowman]

Perhaps they already know he is leaving...?

He was pretty ordinary this year in the games he did play

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Apparently they are struggling to meet the demands of both Redman and Parish. Both are being talked about as requesting 750 each if not more.

I agree though it’s unlikely Parish leaves. It would need to be a deliberate salary dump to let him walk like Grundy and to a lesser degree Acres at Freo.

I completely agree with the majority saying we need to focus on the draft. That doesn’t mean we can’t also hit FA that doesn’t cost draft capital.

I have been curious about Essendon's SC situation.
They would surely have quite a few players on decent coin.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

I'm really excited to follow the development of Adams, Keeler and Heath. We haven't really developed tall key backs or rucks apart from Marshall for the last 20 years and it's probably right now our most pressing need. If we can get all of those guys into our seniors at some stage this year and start pumping experience into them, we'll see how urgent our need for players like TDK or BMcKay are. Fingers crossed they make the jump soon.

Ben McEvoy says hello.
J Battle and C Wilke too.

 

[austinnn]

Ben McEvoy says hello.

Hi Ben, how was your long and fruitful career at St Kilda? Hawthorn?

 

[Mowman]

Apparently they are struggling to meet the demands of both Redman and Parish. Both are being talked about as requesting 750 each if not more.

I agree though it’s unlikely Parish leaves. It would need to be a deliberate salary dump to let him walk like Grundy and to a lesser degree Acres at Freo.

I completely agree with the majority saying we need to focus on the draft. That doesn’t mean we can’t also hit FA that doesn’t cost draft capital.

I think its more they are not to fussed with those 2

They have a BUCKET load of SC room

 

[SteeleSaints]

He was pretty ordinary this year in the games he did play

Yep hence my concern re paying overs for a 23 yo on potential alone.

 

[DougalHoward]

Perhaps they already know he is leaving...?

So they're lowering his trade value

 

[Diehard Saint]

What a lucky miss. probably would have still taken Phillipou and given away Clark.

North saved us from ourselves and for that we should be eternally grateful.

 

[bird_man]

TDK left out of the Carlton side again

4th round pick $450k a year

Not surprising

The good news is that if we did chase him now Carlton can't expect a lot for him

I see him as a Tom Campbell replacement behind Marshall in the ruck

 

[gringo2011]

Not surprising

The good news is that if we did chase him now Carlton can't expect a lot for him

I see him as a Tom Campbell replacement behind Marshall in the ruck

I still think he's got potential and would be happy to take him but only for a lower trade cost and dollar value. Nothing about him suggests that he should be on big money yet.

 

[bird_man]

I still think he's got potential and would be happy to take him but only for a lower trade cost and dollar value. Nothing about him suggests that he should be on big money yet.

If you can get him for a basic wage and a pick around 30 odd you'd do it

 

[Mowman]

If you can get him for a basic wage and a pick around 30 odd you'd do it

He wants a lot more then the basic wage, wants to be paid on his potential

 

[gringo2011]

If you can get him for a basic wage and a pick around 30 odd you'd do it

I reckon you'd have to give up more than that but yeah, a second round pick and $450k or something. He's not moving for minimum chips and if he was on minimum wages they could afford to keep him.

 

[bird_man]

He wants a lot more then the basic wage, wants to be paid on his potential

Then someone else can pay it

Can't ask for the big bucks if you aren't even good enough to cement a spot in the side

Once you hit 24 years old I'm not sure you can keep banging on about potential, you need to start getting a few runs on the board

 

[gringo2011]

Then someone else can pay it

Can't ask for the big bucks if you aren't even good enough to cement a spot in the side

Once you hit 24 years old I'm not sure you can keep banging on about potential, you need to start getting a few runs on the board

Most rucks don't hit peak form until their late 20s. He's gone backwards this year but he is high potential still. He hasn't played 50 games yet.

 

[bird_man]

Most rucks don't hit peak form until their late 20s. He's gone backwards this year but he is high potential still. He hasn't played 50 games yet.

Most quality rucks show a lot more than what he has by 24, even if they don't reach their peak til much later

Marshall was runner up in our best and fairest at the same age and had never played as a first ruck previously to that

Even English who was a late bloomer was kicking a goal a game as a forward ruck

Compare his stats to the best rucks in the comp and he's a long way behind

 

[gringo2011]

Most quality rucks show a lot more than what he has by 24, even if they don't reach their peak til much later

Marshall was runner up in our best and fairest at the same age and had never played as a first ruck previously to that

Even English who was a late bloomer was kicking a goal a game as a forward ruck

Compare his stats to the best rucks in the comp and he's a long way behind

I've watched him play and he's definitely better on the eye than the stats sheet. His impact looks a lot better than it does on paper. He's not got much of a defined role at Carlton and hasn't come on as well as you'd expect. Looking at how well Will Setterfield is going and even Stocker you get the vibe that they have very poor development structures in place. It's a bad sign that two players move out and instantly hit the ground running and have their best years.

 

[bird_man]

I've watched him play and he's definitely better on the eye than the stats sheet. His impact looks a lot better than it does on paper. He's not got much of a defined role at Carlton and hasn't come on as well as you'd expect. Looking at how well Will Setterfield is going and even Stocker you get the vibe that they have very poor development structures in place. It's a bad sign that two players move out and instantly hit the ground running and have their best years.

I've watched a lot of him and I can't agree that his impact is any better than his stat sheet.

Most Carlton fans are starting to come around to the fact that he's very weak in the ruck and outside of the rare highlight he's having very little impact on the game.

Maybe you can put it down to development, but I'm not sure

 

[SteeleSaints]

Most quality rucks show a lot more than what he has by 24, even if they don't reach their peak til much later

Marshall was runner up in our best and fairest at the same age and had never played as a first ruck previously to that

Even English who was a late bloomer was kicking a goal a game as a forward ruck

Compare his stats to the best rucks in the comp and he's a long way behind

Agree bringing in someone like TDK (potential only) on big dollars just undermines the current players who remain loyal to the club on lessor coin. It can only create a toxic environment and its a completely different scenario to trading in an already elite player eg Brundy Grundy. If we are going to spend big dollars I would hope we target a player a lot more advanced than TDK?

Carlton will want a 1st round pick and he is not worth that, nor is his asking price whatever that may be. SOS may have recommended Stocker to us. But he has a strong bias of wanting to recruit players he originally drafted and over the course of time he has consistently got them wrong. In TDK's 5 year career he has averaged 10 disposals, less than 3 marks, 15 hitouts and has never kicked more than 2 goals in a game. He has been given plenty of opportunity to develop and show his wares, but he has shown very little to zip.

 

[TheOsprey]

Quick stat comparison of Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

2019 v TDK 2023 (same age).

Marshall being a Rookie pick up would suggest we could find better options elsewhere for cheaper.

 

[gubby88]

Pretty clear from reading that that if Clark had any problem with the club at all, of course it wasn't with the fans, the admin, the culture or the players, purely the coaching staff and possibly the leaders.

The best thing we could have done was change the coaches at the club, before they did any more damage. I'm loving that so many oppo fans are STILL talking dirt about Ross Lyon and still cannot see the truth about him:

EVEN IF our current scoreline was 1-5 and we were in the bottom 4 on the ladder, Ross Lyon STILL would not just be the BEST choice as senior coach in 2023. He would in fact be the ONLY decent choice.

He has given our club the benefit of his coaching wisdom and the authority to put players in the right headspace, without compromising fitness, selection integrity, development, or tactics. He is the real thing, we should never have lost him in the first place, but he's somehow come back a whole lot better; he's more relaxed, humble, he delegates, he nurtures his coaching team and youth players, he's more holistic but no less driven.

If we hadn't got him, and Clarkson was off the table, we'd be faced with the situation Suns and Blues are now looking at; maaaaybe Buckley or Roos, somehow dragging Matthews out of retirement a la Blighty in 2000, or taking a chance on another assistant after 3 failed attempts. Ross Lyon was headhunted by Essendon and Carlton and they both went in half-arsed and luckily Ross wasn't even that interested. Maybe in the back of his mind, he'd watched Richo and Ratten fumble around and thought to himself about the possibility of redemption with the Saints. Somehow it came off.

So if we'd lost every game of the season so far, what would really be different? There might be less confidence from the players, but ultimately the beauty of Ross's approach takes the focus off results anyway - he'd have the confidence to assure the players to believe in the process, with his assistants they would be fiercely scrutinising the game plan to see where the faults lay and tweaking where necessary. I'm certain the wins would have come eventually.

So many of us on this board said before the season started we weren't concerned about results this year. All the bottom four predictions didn't worry us, we knew that Ross and Geoff Walsh were being brought in to stop the rot and change the culture at the top. We may still miss finals if this year continues the same way that last year did (of course it won't with a real senior coach in charge, but hypothetically), but the mission that Lyon, Enright, Harvey, Hayes, Misson, Batchelor, Carroll, Goddard, Silvani and Allen continue on won't change. To build sustainably for the next decade and beyond. To change the narrative around the club.

Hunter Clark can see it. All the players can see it. Most Saints fans can see it. Soon the AFL world will see it, but probably after it's too late to stop it.

ALL IN.

Chills...

View attachment 1672108

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Quick stat comparison of Rowan Marshall 2019 v TDK 2023 (same age).

Marshall being a Rookie pick up would suggest we could find better options elsewhere for cheaper.

View attachment 1672065

Hard to hold up to each other when Marshall was probably our only ruck. TDK is like a forward pocket fill in ruck. Playing Cordy’s role.