List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

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Ben King looks like he’s either checked out or couldn’t give a ****. I reckon he’s committed to another side already.
 
Another question, if we end up with another Billings situation with Gresham where he vastly overrates his value and ends up signing a peanuts deal with us just to stay on an AFL list do we keep him and maybe leave him to sit in the forward pocket where he once looked promising?

I never want to see him butchering a ball from 60+ metres out again
 

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Murraj1966 said:
Another question, if we end up with another Billings situation with Gresham where he vastly overrates his value and ends up signing a peanuts deal with us just to stay on an AFL list do we keep him and maybe leave him to sit in the forward pocket where he once looked promising?

I never want to see him butchering a ball from 60+ metres out again
Click to expand...
Unless he gets back to his form from pre injuries he's a liability.

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Gresham is a forward pocket type. Great around goals. He played some great footy there at the beginning of his career and he would be an upgrade on Butler. Why persist so long in the midfield? It looks like he has checked out now, so the point is moot.

I think Bytels papers were stamped after the North game. Selection will be interesting this week and will give us a clue.
 
Saintos The ITK said:
Ben King looks like he’s either checked out or couldn’t give a *. I reckon he’s committed to another side already.
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Considering Jed Walter is coming in, King is now disposable. Could take him as a salary dump.
 
Coconut_twirl said:
Gresham is a forward pocket type. Great around goals. He played some great footy there at the beginning of his career and he would be an upgrade on Butler. Why persist so long in the midfield? It looks like he has checked out now, so the point is moot.

I think Bytels papers were stamped after the North game. Selection will be interesting this week and will give us a clue.
Click to expand...

He’s lost all kicking ability. Can’t kick 30m or accurately enough to be useful in the forward pocket. Doesn’t defend or tackle either.
 
crasha301 said:
Bytel is basically Curren without the ability to burst.

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Love what Jack is in theory but he's not going to fit RTBs plan for us to run and run and run.

Hope he makes it somewhere else. Rekon a team like West Coast would love him TBH.
 
Hi folks,
Assuming Footywire is up to date, Jack Bytel is out of contract end of 2023. Has this been updated, or do you think he'll get another contract?
Cheers.
 

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bird_man said:
Jed Walter is going to take a few years though. I think if he leaves it will be when his contract ends, not this year.
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I think Walters has the capacity to be the exception with tall forwards, he is already a big very competitive lad and his defensive efforts are elite for a kid his size.

I think the King boys are pretty loyal lads and Dew getting the sack may have stung Ben? Perhaps something is in the making, but Dew leaving is more likely the reason for his form slump than whats happening next year. Although it would be nice to have both King boys at the Saints, from a list balance perspective we need elite midfielders/ruckman & a monster key defender more than another key forward. I think with Max King, Membrey (if he ever gets back), Caminiti, Hayes and Keeler when ready we have the makings of a really functional key forward line. Would Ben King make us better absolutely but spending 800k or more on another key forward when we have other significant list holes would be a mistake IMO.

If we ever get our tall forwards back, Owens can go into the middle and play midfield. Phillipou will continue his development but is a little away before he will have the body to become a permanent midfielder. Hotton may come on next year and play some minutes, but we still need elite midfielders and ruckman as a premium.

Hopefully Oli Hotton and Max Heath get a taste at AFL level before years end, so we can see what they have to offer.
 
how do we get more mids, or more footballers that can football?

what was that, someone said trade king? crazy

King would be huge in a great team with a great midfield that can move the ball and deliver, but I don't know if he's a generational forward otherwise. He's not a riewoldt, he doesn't lead or if he does his leading patterns are pretty rubbish. Personally I like forwards that can lead idk. We're so predictable when he's parked in the 50 trynna play jack in the pack. I think we'd be a better side if we turned the asset that is king into an A grade mid and another first round pick. Or something similar.

Who that is I don't know.

If we can produce an A grade midfield ourselves then of course keep him.

anyway come@me i wanna hear your foolish opinions
 
MOLTEN GANGLANDS said:
how do we get more mids, or more footballers that can football?

what was that, someone said trade king? crazy

King would be huge in a great team with a great midfield that can move the ball and deliver, but I don't know if he's a generational forward otherwise. He's not a riewoldt, he doesn't lead or if he does his leading patterns are pretty rubbish. Personally I like forwards that can lead idk. We're so predictable when he's parked in the 50 trynna play jack in the pack. I think we'd be a better side if we turned the asset that is king into an A grade mid and another first round pick. Or something similar.

Who that is I don't know.

If we can produce an A grade midfield ourselves then of course keep him.

anyway come@me i wanna hear your foolish opinions
Click to expand...
I disagree that King can't be a generational forward.

Yes, he needs to work on his game, improve his leading etc. But that is what we are paying coaches for.

He's had a pretty tough year, but we seem quick to forget that as a 22 year old in an average side he was able to kick 50 plus goals. Recent history suggests if you can do that you are likely to go on and have a pretty special career.

How we improve our midfield is a great question. The draft doesn't look overly helpful this year.

Firstly, we need to be picking the eyes out of other clubs youth. We need to try to land a Flanders or someone similar that has a couple of seasons under their belt but hasn't quite hit their straps yet.

Outside of that we need to improve the way we develop our own. Phillipou, Windhager, Owens, Hotton and NWM is a pretty good starting point.
 
Even if our midfield doesn’t improve, hypothetically, having two kings is still such an asset.

Every team no matter how bad, still gets the flow of play at some point, and two kings would spread most defences pretty thin, it wouldn’t take much for it to be a major structural advantage, and that’s before factoring in Ben and Max’s talent when fit and firing both in the air and at ground level.

I’m still firmly in the ‘mids are more important camp’, but I would still grab Ben whenever the opportunity presented regardless of where we’re at.
 
Mowman said:
Looks like a country footballer
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I remember people wetting themselves about him and how he can make time stand still , the only thing that stands still is himself.
I understand he has had injuries but not many of them have stopped him from doing some extra work to get fit , he looked shocking on the weekend
 
The two definite 'move ons' that have some kind of trade value are Clark and Gresh. I know Clark has had a terrible injury run, etc. but he just looks like he'll stay an ok but ultimately fringe player. Gresh is overrated in the general footy world imo and we'll get something ok for him in trade I think. Maybe later second rounders for both in terms of trade / compo which hopefully we could package and trade up into a single late first and take the best mid at that spot.

We need to free up mid spots, assuming Coff has a decent run next year then Coff needs to be a mid or bust; Wilkie has the third / intercepting tall defender spot locked up to the end of his career so Coff needs a new role. Clark out of mids, Coff in.

Delist Jones and Bytel; I hope Bytel gets a home somewhere else. Jones looks very limited, only seems to use his speed getting forward of the ball, is injured all the time and will be 29 before the start of the regular season.

I would hang on to Billings, I think he's far more valuable as a GOP (but definitely AFL level) depth player than anything we'd get in trade for him.
 
I think we should try to get the Gold Coast pick in the draft , even if it costs us our second rounder to do the first round pick.
Draft the best mid we can. ( Sanders? Caddy? )


Do what we can to get a free agent. Even if it costs us our Gresham compensation.
Parish would be very good ( but probably unlikely ) and i agree with Gringo i think, Matheoson or M Crouch are an upgrade on Bytel. ( Though Matheoson is 3 years older and Crouch is 5 years older ).
It may also be easy to get Constable out of GC cheap, he's not getting a game there. But he's probably an upgrade on Seb Ross.

Next year : ( out of contract in bold ).
Key/Tall Defenders : Cordy ( 27) , Howard ( 28) , Adams ( 20) , Van Es ( 19). / Wilkie (27), Highmore (25), Coffield ( tall not key/ 24).
Rucks. Marshall ( 28), Campbell ( 32 ), Heath ( 21), Keeler (22).
Mids. Ross (31), Crouch (30), Steele (28) Byrnes( 23) Windhager (21 ) Alleged Mids: Jones (29) , Gresham( 26), Clark ( 25)
Wannabe mids Bytel (24 ). Potential mids : Owens(20) , Phillipou (19) , Stocker? ( 24).
Outside mids Hill(31) , Wanganeen-Milera (21) , Billings (28) , Wood ( 30 ) .( Coffield onto the wing eventually?)

Tall Forwards: Cordy ( 27) , King, Sharman, Caminiti, Keeler(22),
Small Forwards : Butler (28), Higgins( 25), Peris ( 20)

Other : McKenzie( 28) , Webster (31), Connolly ( 22)

I'd be giving something a year or 2 to Adams, Highmore, Coffield and Webster.
another year to Campbell. I think we are light on, and probably unlikely to find a suitable candidate in between Heath(21 ) and Roma ( 28). Try to rookie someone i guess.
Byrnes has probably earned a couple of years, they'll no doubt give him 3.
Wood at his age, gets a year.
Peris gets a promotion off the rookie list.
Stocker has probably earned at least another year.

That leaves
Jones : Aging and injury prone, and failing to impact well in the midfield.
Gresham : probably going of his own accord.
McKenzie : getting older and hardly available.
Bytel : Still has time on his side, but its not working for him.
Clark : talented , but failing to impact in our side. Can't play like Sinclair or WM in our backline, not working in the midfield.
Connolly: Still young, but not really making inroads. Defensive enough as a back flanker? Working out as a mid?

If we trade our second round draft pick to upgrade our first.
1: First round draftee / Jones.
Free agent : Gresham.
Traded player ( 4th round ) : McKenzie.
3rd round draft pick : Bytel
Peris upgrade : Connolly or Clark?

Rookie pick?
 
Saintos The ITK said:
Ben King looks like he’s either checked out or couldn’t give a *. I reckon he’s committed to another side already.
Click to expand...

He’d fit in well in our pile of disinterested lazy campaigners.
 
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