List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[bird_man]

What does Finn bring, who does he replace etc? I know nothing about him.

He is a father son, even his father was a father son

Can’t see him going anywhere

 

[ScrappyDo]

of course you don't.

tell me what Gags did?

the reality is Pelchen, Ameet, Trout, Libba and Gags are all no longer at the club for a reason.

So Ameet landing the Head of Footy Dpt role at the Kennel has what to do with Toce?
Is it because Toce currently occupies a role at StKilda, and that by association validates your opinion on Gags?
Is that it??

 

[StCicatriz]

So Ameet landing the Head of Footy Dpt role at the Kennel has what to do with Toce?
Is it because Toce currently occupies a role at StKilda, and that by association validates your opinion on Gags?
Is that it??

i like the part where you didnt answer the question but proceeded to deflect with 3 other questions

 

[bird_man]

Let’s not get carried away

Toce has been in charge of one draft

That’s 4 players on our main list, one that has played senior footy

We’d only be guessing on how much say he had prior to that when Libba was in charge

 

[bird_man]

of course you don't.

tell me what Gags did?

the reality is Pelchen, Ameet, Trout, Libba and Gags are all no longer at the club for a reason.

A few of our best performers this year came in during the Gallagher era

Wood, Crouch, Higgins, Butler to name a few

Doubt we win Saturday night without them

 

[The_Steadier]

A few of our best performers this year came in during the Gallagher era

Wood, Crouch, Higgins, Butler to name a few

Doubt we win Saturday night without them

He also offered hunter clark to norf for the equivalent of pick 25.

I think ratts (and the players themselves of course) actually deserves the credit for butler and wood.

Im no huge ratts fan- but credit where it's due, he took them both to new levels

 

[ScrappyDo]

i like the part where you didnt answer the question but proceeded to deflect with 3 other questions

I don't need to answer your loaded questions, 2girls did that with the OP and Birdy has already has given the phucks for me.


So since you're the authority, how bout you address the OP and tell us all why Toce should get the credit for Ross Lyon's winning team that Gags assembled over the last 5 years? Then tell birdy he's wrong too.

 

[bird_man]

He also offered hunter clark to norf for the equivalent of pick 25.

I think ratts (and the players themselves of course) actually deserves the credit for butler and wood.

Im no huge ratts fan- but credit where it's due, he took them both to new levels

So the people that brought them in deserve zero credit?

Or could it be possible that they both get credit?

Rats wouldn’t have done much of a job if they weren’t on a list and they seem to be going alright under Lyon

Not sure about pick 25, if you are going off draft picks it’s really not a great way to judge when you are talking about top end picks

He also did knock back a 2nd a 3rd rounder for him did he not?

By the way, I would have been devastated if had traded Clark. I’m not pretending Gags was God, but to pretend he played no part in the list and it all came down to a bloke that has been in charge of one draft makes no sense to me

 

[gringo2011]

Said it before, will say it again. Amartey would be an ideal fit, but we'll have to pay up given his recent form. Otherwise, Keeler could fill the hole.

Preaching to the converted but think they want him for post Buddy. Had a huge VFL year last year and opened his AFL account this year very well.

 

[The_Steadier]

So the people that brought them in deserve zero credit?

Or could it be possible that they both get credit?

Rats wouldn’t have done much of a job if they weren’t on a list and they seem to be going alright under Lyon

Not sure about pick 25, if you are going off draft picks it’s really not a great way to judge when you are talking about top end picks

He also did knock back a 2nd a 3rd rounder for him did he not?

By the way, I would have been devastated if had traded Clark. I’m not pretending Gags was God, but to pretend he played no part in the list and it all came down to a bloke that has been in charge of one draft makes no sense to me

Gags did ok early days but screwed up bigtime last year:
1. not finding a way to be at least at the bridesmaids table with the bombers and hawks in the bowes/pick 7 deal.

2. Flirting with offloading hill

3. As discussed- trying desperately to offload a contracted clark for absolute peanuts. Only to be saved by lolnorf being even dumber.

Did alright early- but cracked under pressure.

Overall did ok- but needed to go just as badly as ratts did at the end

 

[gringo2011]

It’s not entirely up-to-date (see NAS), but have at it gang…

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2024

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2024.

www.footywire.com

I’d be circling Finn Maginness like motherf#*ing Jaws.

Other names to think about:

• Max Ramsden
• Xavier O’Halloran
• Sam Flanders
• Lachie Ash
• Nick Bryan
• Harry Himmelberg
• Ben Hobbs
• Arlo Draper
• Tom Fullarton
• Brodie Kemp
• Mitch Georgiades
• Deven Robertson
• Sam Philp
• Darcy Parish
• Liam Henry
• Laitham Vandermeer
• Shannon Neale
• Ned Long
• Ben McKay
• Miles Bergman
• Joel Amartey
• Rhyan Mansell
• Hugo Hall-Kahan
• Jack Petruccelle

They range from probable spuds, to 98% ungettable, but it never hurts to explore the options…

Got heaps of them on my watch list. Vandermeer is probably ungettable. Dogs rate him. Ginnivan can't get back in since Bobby hill turned up. He'd be a good target.

Hall-Kahan would be a bit of karma.

 

[gringo2011]

What does Finn bring, who does he replace etc? I know nothing about him.

He's a mid being played as a tagger. Was a FS to the Hawks but looks a bit underwhelming so far.

 

[gringo2011]

He is a father son, even his father was a father son

Can’t see him going anywhere

So was Kennedy.

 

[bird_man]

So was Kennedy.

I knew someone would bring up Kennedy

Kennedy couldn’t get a game in a great side and left for opportunity

No reason for this dude to leave other than the fact Hawthorn are complete shit

 

[gringo2011]

A few of our best performers this year came in during the Gallagher era

Wood, Crouch, Higgins, Butler to name a few

Doubt we win Saturday night without them

Gags was list manager. Libba was the head recruiter, Toce talent spotter. List management is mostly contracts, list make up, profile and design. Moving talent out to bring in new talent, access to the draft and working out where in the cycle they are and trading in needs. I'd say his architecture was a bit asymmetrical.

We seemed to be in full top up mode and did a U-turn when we saw how good Owens and Windhager were compared to older recycled talent.

I doubt we win if it wasn't for Owens, Caminiti, Clark, Gresham and a whole lot of others as well. Topping up makes you competitive for sure but it also lowers the ceiling on internal growth.

 

[gringo2011]

I knew someone would bring up Kennedy

Kennedy couldn’t get a game in a great side and left for opportunity

No reason for this dude to leave other than the fact Hawthorn are complete s**t

That would be a reason to leave. Knowing you are up for 4 years playing in a VFL quality side. Kids these days have gold fish attention spans. That said not that keen anyway.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Todays post on Saintsational re Isaac Keeler by Tony74 who works (as a trainer I believe) at the club. Tony has a very good reputation with the info he releases on the site.

"Obviously a lot of noise happening with our new boys playing at the moment. Isaac obviously hasn’t been front and centre due to the fact we haven’t seen him this year. The kid has the potential to be as good or not better than Pou, Owens etc. we will see him very soon, perhaps in a fortnight. The coaches are putting a lot of time into him, as well as the fitness staff. 2024 we may see a future champion of the club. Just my opinion".

How good would that be if he is right and he was over looked by the Crows!

 

[gringo2011]

So the people that brought them in deserve zero credit?

Or could it be possible that they both get credit?

Rats wouldn’t have done much of a job if they weren’t on a list and they seem to be going alright under Lyon

Not sure about pick 25, if you are going off draft picks it’s really not a great way to judge when you are talking about top end picks

He also did knock back a 2nd a 3rd rounder for him did he not?

By the way, I would have been devastated if had traded Clark. I’m not pretending Gags was God, but to pretend he played no part in the list and it all came down to a bloke that has been in charge of one draft makes no sense to me

Well he gets credit because for what ever reason the list is holding up. Really a list is like a patchwork quilt. Every bit makes up the whole and taking pieces out can change the whole course of where you end up. I just want to enjoy not being shit at the moment. I'm happy to enjoy the ride and not rehash it any more, we haven't had many good times in the last 10 years, we might as well spend the good bits not arguing. We are where we are and this footy department doesn't have any obvious deficiencies. Bassat has given them everything that they could ask for and we are in a good place.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Isaac Keeler
How good would that be if he is right and he was over looked by the Crows!

Please god make it so.
Just a little more ammo to sink the boots in to the chardonnay sippers

Overlooked wilks
Crouch for cheap
Nas signs
Pou signs (soon)
Keeler dominates and is better than all

 

[Joffaboy]

Seems like the form and depth of our list over the beginning of the season has put a few well worn theories on drafting and recruiting into some serious doubt and there is a bit of revisionism and scrambling to defend the ever more indefensible fan theories.
Pass the

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[StCicatriz]

I don't need to answer your loaded questions, 2girls did that with the OP and Birdy has already has given the phucks for me.


So since you're the authority, how bout you address the OP and tell us all why Toce should get the credit for Ross Lyon's winning team that Gags assembled over the last 5 years? Then tell birdy he's wrong too.

i was told by <someone> at the club that trout was no good. specifically didnt offer enough to attract players, offered overs to what we already had. also said we had issues in recruitment because and i quote "we havent drafted enough good kicks". he wasn't good on the contractual side, more an oppositional coach turned recruiter who got promoted above where he should have been and somehow ended up list boss.

pelchen laid down the framework and strategy for the list build in 2012. ameet was list boss and trout was head recruiter. pelchen was sacked. ameet and trout continued on, before ameet was made COO with TPP responsibilities, trout was made list boss and then libba head recruiter. libba was in emma quayles book providing heavy input into recruitment.

make no mistake all 4 are no longer at the club in a list or recruitment capacity because they were no good. i don't see how you could argue that in anyway.

Toce is now head recruiter because he has runs on the board. the south australian lads were his calls. his responsibilities grew. i mean you can see that with how he's nailed the draft with very little picks plus the ones he has had have been good so far in Pou and Nas. I mean compare those two, to the likes of Billings, Clark etc.

Gags IMO failed. his main responsibility was developing the list strategy to move the club fwd. it involved targeting ready made talent over the draft. last year we conceded that list strategy was flawed and it had to be re-worked. it's like ratten stating he'll playing finals in 3 years, only to then say he needs a longer term rebuild of another 3. you just dont get those opportunities or re-setting of the goal posts.

if you have a look at the nucleus of the side it pre-dates gags. you'd have a stronger argument to suggest trout had done it. for example: Steele, Marshall, King, Membrey, Gresham, Battle all pre-dated Gags. Or the fringe/older players such as Webster, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Billings, Dmac etc. thats before you look at Stocker and Hammer. Or what are draft calls such as Wilkie, Pou, Owens, Windhager, NAS.

you can put Hill, Crouch, Ryder (gone), Jones, Butler, Howard down to gags if you want.

if Gags was any good he'd still be at the club.

look i've been critical of the club, but there's is absolutely no way i think they've moved on guys who have been good. i think they've taken the view of stability and then moved them on when there's been no way to continue with them in their position. all of them just didn't cut it. unless you're suggesting the club got it wrong here?

 

[StCicatriz]

Gags did ok early days but screwed up bigtime last year:
1. not finding a way to be at least at the bridesmaids table with the bombers and hawks in the bowes/pick 7 deal.

2. Flirting with offloading hill

3. As discussed- trying desperately to offload a contracted clark for absolute peanuts. Only to be saved by lolnorf being even dumber.

Did alright early- but cracked under pressure.

Overall did ok- but needed to go just as badly as ratts did at the end

IMO i think Gags got it wrong with the overall strategy that was too reliant on trading talent in over drafting and developing it. which was amplified by Gags offering overs to get a deal done to bring players in but also taking unders when moving players on.

it just wasn't sustainable.

our improvement seems to have come from reworking the professionalism and coaching inside the club... but also having a list manager and head recruiter that's been able to identify the likes of hammer, stocker, pou, nas.

side note: the matthew allison selection probably shows where libba was at.

 

[StCicatriz]

no one wants to link the hanners deal to Gags hey

 

[StCicatriz]

A few of our best performers this year came in during the Gallagher era

Wood, Crouch, Higgins, Butler to name a few

Doubt we win Saturday night without them

i dont think those 4 are going to be nucleus of a flag or a finals tilt tbh.

you're just not going to get anywhere turning your back to the draft to daisy chain a bunch of deals to grab support players

our future isnt in two forward pockets, wood and crouch, who are both getting on. nor is it jones, hanners, hill tbh

it's in Windy, Owens, Hammer, Stocker, Pou, Nas, Gresham, Marshall, Steele, Battle, King, Clark, Coffield, Bytel etc.

the top up rebuild aint it.

 

[pebblesofsand]

i dont think those 4 are going to be nucleus of a flag or a finals tilt tbh.

you're just not going to get anywhere turning your back to the draft to daisy chain a bunch of deals to grab support players

our future isnt in two forward pockets, wood and crouch, who are both getting on. nor is it jones, hanners, hill tbh

it's in Windy, Owens, Hammer, Stocker, Pou, Nas, Gresham, Marshall, Steele, Battle, King, Clark, Coffield, Bytel etc.

the top up rebuild aint it.

@ 5 draftees a year it takes 9 years to fill a list.

EVERY club utilises trading.