List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

I was asking the same question yesterday, but they also avoid paying a pick for Gresham (let’s say their second rd) and probably get something back (maybe our second).

So we give up Gresham and a second rounder to get 13 instead of 18? Seems like a terrible deal. I reckon that second rounder is nearly as likely to get a decent player as the pick 18 in this draft. Pick up a Moir or George Stephens type with those picks.

 

[MordySaint]

I’m tipping 90% of players in the comp are better kicks than Gresham!!!

Greshams kicking reminds me a bit of Jack Stevens kicking action.

He's always running at full tilt and never seems balanced enough to hit targets at a consistent rate.

Having said that I think his strengths outweigh his weaknesses.

 

[gringo2011]

Write up makes him sound like what we want billings to be as that hff

I think the last bit sums up his AFL form too. He's eye catching at times but can go missing completely.

 

[gringo2011]

Considering fitting Parish in seemed to be an issue all year I don’t think you have the salary cap space you think. Not to mention the fact that you can pay 95% and load up for the next year when there are a heap of tall forwards out of contract. Shaking a high price mid you don’t need out of the tree makes more sense than paying an an average key back who barely plays $800K through FA

The AFL media have been reporting that Essendon have $2 million to play with in their cap. They seem to have contracted well recently. McKay apparently has a knee issue picked up in his medical so won't cost as much as well.

 

[saintmike65]

13 in a s**t draft is unlikely to reap a player as good as Gresham and probably takes 5 years to work out. Guys like Sinclair will be finishing up by the time these kids come on. I reckon we are having a bet each way between full rebuild and playing for now and not really clear on a path.

We'll need to import a bunch of guys Gresham's age and will cost more than pick 13 if we want to find good ones if we aren't looking at another rebuild.

Pick 13 on it’s own not great but packaged with pick 12 we may get pick 4 from gold coast…that gets you a potential gun 200 game player

 

[snails13]

It will depend on how early he goes and what it costs to get that pick. My guess is that it would cost too much to trade up to pick 4 to make it worthwhile. Could be that they wait until trade night and live trade if he gets to 7 or 8.

So we give up Gresham and a second rounder to get 13 instead of 18? Seems like a terrible deal. I reckon that second rounder is nearly as likely to get a decent player as the pick 18 in this draft. Pick up a Moir or George Stephens type with those picks.

Chasing pick 4 with 12&13 is a better option than 12 &18.

 

[stavro#4]

His best year ever has been 35 goals and across his career he's a 1 goal/game small forward. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Gresham as a player and he's probably our best small forward next year but he's not really worth band 1 money. He's probably worth band 2 money since we have the cap space that we do but that would still be a better pick than you'd get from us in a trade.

I get why you want pick 13 for him. But it doesn't make sense for us to overpay for no material benefit.

The material benefit is ensuring you don’t have to trade with us.

Just like you didn’t want to trade for McKay.

We value Gresham as a first round pick.

You only have pick 8 and pick 27.

irrespective of how you as a supporter feel about Gresham. Your club wants him and doesn’t wish to have to spend its draft capital acquiring him.

The articles benefit for you is that we then take on Shiels salary and give you a draft pick (not pick 13) for doing so and you triggering band 1.

So the net gain is saving further in your cap + Gresham + another draft pick. Your net loss is Dylan Shiel, a player who might not see himself as Essendon “depth”.

What you plan to do with your cap space isn’t mentioned and doesn’t make this discussion between the clubs bs. It just means you only have this part of the jigsaw available to you.

 

[stavro#4]

Pick 13 on it’s own not great but packaged with pick 12 we may get pick 4 from gold coast…that gets you a potential gun 200 game player

People have been moaning that the “best” we will get for Gresham is a pick in the 20s type of compensation.

If we end up with 13. It’s an unreal outcome.

Irrespective of potentially turning our picks into a better one.

 

[Ricmel]

Pick 13 on it’s own not great but packaged with pick 12 we may get pick 4 from gold coast…that gets you a potential gun 200 game player

Yeah, I think you have to expect the club is thinking a bit more strategically than pick 13 gets us pick 13 in the draft. Having 12 and 13 would be a strong hand. Could even trade forward if there is a target they have in mind next year.

 

[#1_pigeonracer]

Gresham the winner here. Just can't get my head around a club paying a person say 200 large more to trigger B1 for another club. Can't see how it passes the pub test and costs clubs in the 5 or so picks after.

 

[eth-dog]

The material benefit is ensuring you don’t have to trade with us.

Just like you didn’t want to trade for McKay.

We value Gresham as a first round pick.

You only have pick 8 and pick 27.

irrespective of how you as a supporter feel about Gresham. Your club wants him and doesn’t wish to have to spend its draft capital acquiring him.

The articles benefit for you is that we then take on Shiels salary and give you a draft pick (not pick 13) for doing so and you triggering band 1.

So the net gain is saving further in your cap + Gresham + another draft pick. Your net loss is Dylan Shiel, a player who might not see himself as Essendon “depth”.

What you plan to do with your cap space isn’t mentioned and doesn’t make this discussion between the clubs bs. It just means you only have this part of the jigsaw available to you.

Our current offer is probably around the band 2 mark. If you match and trade for band 2 when you won't get a better pick in the trade it really makes no sense, unless you're matching to keep him.

We also don't need the cap relief. Shiel has one more year on his deal and we have shitloads of room for next year.

You can quote what the article says all you like but we receive no benefit from it. The only way it makes sense for us is if we get pick 13 as part of it. Which means it wouldn't make sense for you.

 

[stavro#4]

Gresham the winner here. Just can't get my head around a club paying a person say 200 large more to trigger B1 for another club. Can't see how it passes the pub test and costs clubs in the 5 or so picks after.

Gold Coast literally paid Geelong to eat Bowes contract in the way of pick 7 last year.

 

[gringo2011]

Pick 13 on it’s own not great but packaged with pick 12 we may get pick 4 from gold coast…that gets you a potential gun 200 game player

I reckon GC will get better offers on 4. From what Stavro said I reckon to make sense for Essendon, that we give them our two firsts for pick 8 and Shiel. Hope that Sanders is still there. Otherwise we end up probably taking a player we would at 13 anyway.

 

[stavro#4]

Our current offer is probably around the band 2 mark. If you match and trade for band 2 when you won't get a better pick in the trade it really makes no sense, unless you're matching to keep him.

We also don't need the cap relief. Shiel has one more year on his deal and we have shitloads of room for next year.

You can quote what the article says all you like but we receive no benefit from it. The only way it makes sense for us is if we get pick 13 as part of it. Which means it wouldn't make sense for you.

It makes no sense to you guys now. It’s generally a precursor to another deal where you then take on some salary or target another player.

Either way. That’s an Essendon thing not a stkilda thing. We are paying you a pick to take Shiel.

Will it happen? Who knows.
I know that it’s genuine as far as we had an interest in Shiel as of Monday.

 

[L_W_P]

Our current offer is probably around the band 2 mark. If you match and trade for band 2 when you won't get a better pick in the trade it really makes no sense, unless you're matching to keep him.

We also don't need the cap relief. Shiel has one more year on his deal and we have shitloads of room for next year.

You can quote what the article says all you like but we receive no benefit from it. The only way it makes sense for us is if we get pick 13 as part of it. Which means it wouldn't make sense for you.

By doing this deal you are essentially swapping Shiel for Gresham + a late pick. That's a win for Essendon.

By doing this deal we get pick 13 instead of a pick in the mid-late 20s. That's a win for St Kilda.

If Band 2 compo is the best Essendon offer then St Kilda will match and keep Gresham. This is why we haven't made a formal offer yet, we don't want to "set the market" as it were.

 

[BrutThough]

we give them our two firsts for pick 8 and Shiel

Is a 30 year old Shiel and a 4 pick upgrade worth two first round teen picks?

If we want to go to the draft and add more talent, that deal doesn't make sense for us either.

 

[stavro#4]

I reckon GC will get better offers on 4. From what Stavro said I reckon to make sense for Essendon, that we give them our two firsts for pick 8 and Shiel. Hope that Sanders is still there. Otherwise we end up probably taking a player we would at 13 anyway.

Just to help you stop wetting the bed abit about what’s happening.

The value in us grabbing Shiel is that it potentially removes all of, or the majority of his salary from our books at the end of next year -(spitballing as I’m not certain as we could re-sign him or split his 1 year into 2 potentially)

So we in effect pay a pick to bring him in. His salary goes and we have the cap space for 2 free agents next year. Making us a huge player in the sweepstakes.

We could very well trade our first next year into this draft too - if we believe we will land players

 

[Sun Ra]

I'm not a big fan of Shiel and was relieved we missed him when he went to Essendon - we will need a bigger
mirror in the gym if he comes. That said, to get pick 13 compo - I think it's worth it. My only fear is that as
part of this arrangement we give Shiel a 2 or 3 year deal and later spread his year 1 salary across 2 or 3 years.

 

[gringo2011]

People have been moaning that the “best” we will get for Gresham is a pick in the 20s type of compensation.

If we end up with 13. It’s an unreal outcome.

Irrespective of potentially turning our picks into a better one.

He's literally worth what the market will pay him. That's how FA works. We are hoping that we can manipulate a bit more out of the deal by negotiating with Essendon to pay more.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Write up makes him sound like what we want billings to be as that hff

A write up from 2 years ago is not really relevant anymore , its more how he is tracking now.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Shiel won’t be depth he’ll walk into our midfield.

 

[snails13]

If this proposal for Gresham and Shiel has been bought up in the media does that mean that both St.Kilda and Essendon's list management are into discussions on this matter

 

[gringo2011]

Just to help you stop wetting the bed abit about what’s happening.

The value in us grabbing Shiel is that it potentially removes all of, or the majority of his salary from our books at the end of next year -(spitballing as I’m not certain as we could re-sign him or split his 1 year into 2 potentially)

So we in effect pay a pick to bring him in. His salary goes and we have the cap space for 2 free agents next year. Making us a huge player in the sweepstakes.

We could very well trade our first next year into this draft too - if we believe we will land players

How are we paying for Henry and Dow and potentially Ralphsmith? Also we have been unable to get a look at decent free agents so far. Crouch has been a good soldier but certainly not a game changer. Not many stars go in FA. If we end up paying up big for more guys around Gresham level we are just moving the furniture around to look busy.

 

[jimmytigs]

There arnt many more bonkers supporters than norf supporters.

yep stephens fisher spargo khamis also mentioned,seems theyve got 2 of the 6 will be interesting with the others

 

[BigMonty]

I would take Shiel and his salary for one year to get pick 13 compensation for trading Gresh.

We are attempting to move Gresh and Doogs if the price is right because they are not what we see as the future.

More concerned about Essendon typical solution make a play for players and tie them to big contracts like they did with Shiel in the first place.

Not sure that let's say min 4 years on big coin for an injury prone backman and a guy who cannot kick 45m is a high risk low reward outcome. Bit like what we have done in the past.

Any chance we do the same with GWS and Haynes for Doogs? Upgrade his pick as well for one year salary dump. GWS making it this far in finals may put some pressure on SC in upcoming contract negs.

Gives us more chips at the upcoming trade table.


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