2024 Draft Thread.

[Joffaboy]

How do you know that it all works out perfectly in this alternative world?

Apparently it is better than reality. The trade we got Clark and Collard we selected Michael Long 3 picks before Shai Bolton.

To think we would have selected Will Day, Serong and Pickett is laughable, because apparently Gallagher was no good. The same people who think we get the above are relying on someone they still critisise two years after he has gone to pick them. Lol.

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[ScrappyDo]

2019?
With our original pick we could have got Serong.
If we stopped at the GWS trade we could have potentially got Sam Day and someone else...who probably would have been crap.
We passed up Bigoa to get Leo. Bigoa is still on a list.

We also could have taken Fischer McAsey believing that Steele, Dunny, Acres, Coff, Clark, Hanners and Bytel were gonna come good.

The revisionism that assumes Serong would have been a Saint is just such BS, and now Henry (pick 9 in 2019) is on our list at zero cost which means the final tally on what both Hill and Doogs actually cost us is............

Acres, and a second round pick (p40) in a terrible draft.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Have to agree. Drafting in retrospect is not how the draft would have played out

 

[Diehard Saint]

That’s exactly what they did. We apparently had a chance to get Bing back as well and gags said no

Not sure about that.
GC (the AFL) paid Ben a sh*t load to be an AFL “ambassador” up there for 3 years I think.
Story was that Lethlean advised him and his family to take it. We were not in a position at that time to pay what GC would have demanded.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

2019?
With our original pick we could have got Serong.
If we stopped at the GWS trade we could have potentially got Sam Day and someone else...who probably would have been crap.
We passed up Bigoa to get Leo. Bigoa is still on a list.

As someone else posted earlier, we could have also taken McAsey or any number of other kids who’s careers are now done.

My simple point was that we traded out of one draft & some act like we did it consistently for years & that is why we are still in the same pile of poo 5 years later.


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[austinnn]

The only Reid we will be getting would be Murphy

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That is true! SOS was about to sign up these guys until Ross heard about their preference for just walking everywhere.

 

[austinnn]

Not happening but you get a couple of 2nd round picks back and it would be fine. Reid has the potential to be the best player of the modern era.

Yet, if that 1 player suffers a season-ending injury, what happens to the team? Invest in the many not the few.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Interesting to see Jagga will be playing for Richmond's VFL side over the next month.

 

[gringo2011]

How do you know that it all works out perfectly in this alternative world?

Nothing works out perfectly but if you drop down and draft hard you usually find at least one star quality kid.

Freo is probably the model for a side that dropped away as we were topping up. They let Hill go and took picks to the draft. They stayed down for a few seasons but now have reloaded. They are equal 4th on the ladder now while we are still rebuilding and probably have a massive drop off in 3 to 4 years as we lose old guys and have very few behind them currently over 22.

Hill cost us pick 10 (Kosi Pickett), a future 2nd round pick (Max Holmes) and future 4th round pick (Sampson Ryan) and Acres.

With our original pick Adelaide blew it on McAsey but Hayden Young, Serong, Henry, Tom Green, Flanders, Pickett and Day were the players straight after him.

Freo also chose to step back to load up on Jackson and probably delayed a surge up the ladder because of it after letting go of guys like Lobb, Acres and Schultz.

I don't mind doing that but losing Battle to get into the top end of a draft that players in the 20s don't look noticeably worse than guys at the front end seems a less solid decision. Not all drafts are equal.

I can't believe you guys are still trying to justify it. It's exactly the model to make yourself stay in a long slow rebuild. Make yourself good enough to sit around mid table and not be bad enough to get into the good picks but not good enough to bridge the gap.

We have done extremely well the last 2 years and taken genuinely top end talent from a pretty ordinary position and finding a few late picks that look likely. It's still not the model any other side would follow thinking it was a blueprint.

 

[gringo2011]

Apparently it is better than reality. The trade we got Clark and Collard we selected Michael Long 3 picks before Shai Bolton.

To think we would have selected Will Day, Serong and Pickett is laughable, because apparently Gallagher was no good. The same people who think we get the above are relying on someone they still critisise two years after he has gone to pick them. Lol.

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You are such a sycophant and you'd rather stand in your shit pile telling the world how jealous they are than see reality. Gallagher was a list manager not the recruiter.

You were the biggest cheer leader for their misguided plan and can't let go.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Have to agree. Drafting in retrospect is not how the draft would have played out

Not to mention the flow on effect on who we could pick in the drafts that followed.

Yeah we get Serong in 2019 & it pushes us up a rung or two & we miss on out on Nas & Pou.

 

[BrutThough]

Not to mention the flow on effect on who we could pick in the drafts that followed.

Yeah we get Serong in 2019 & it pushes us up a rung or two & we miss on out on Nas & Pou.

Or we draft Nas but we dont add mature players like Hill and Wood so he leaves because he doesn't have the same support and environment around him.

 

[BrutThough]

Nothing works out perfectly but if you drop down and draft hard you usually find at least one star quality kid.

Freo is probably the model for a side that dropped away as we were topping up. They let Hill go and took picks to the draft. They stayed down for a few seasons but now have reloaded. They are equal 4th on the ladder now while we are still rebuilding and probably have a massive drop off in 3 to 4 years as we lose old guys and have very few behind them currently over 22.

Hill cost us pick 10 (Kosi Pickett), a future 2nd round pick (Max Holmes) and future 4th round pick (Sampson Ryan) and Acres.

With our original pick Adelaide blew it on McAsey but Hayden Young, Serong, Henry, Tom Green, Flanders, Pickett and Day were the players straight after him.

Freo also chose to step back to load up on Jackson and probably delayed a surge up the ladder because of it after letting go of guys like Lobb, Acres and Schultz.

I don't mind doing that but losing Battle to get into the top end of a draft that players in the 20s don't look noticeably worse than guys at the front end seems a less solid decision. Not all drafts are equal.

I can't believe you guys are still trying to justify it. It's exactly the model to make yourself stay in a long slow rebuild. Make yourself good enough to sit around mid table and not be bad enough to get into the good picks but not good enough to bridge the gap.

We have done extremely well the last 2 years and taken genuinely top end talent from a pretty ordinary position and finding a few late picks that look likely. It's still not the model any other side would follow thinking it was a blueprint.

Most of us cant believe you are still so hung up on the 2019 trade period and the 1 good draft pick we lost while bringing in 5 players, including 3 who are still best 22.

 

[botts]

I was watching highlights of trainor the other day. They look so similar to a young rooey when we first drafted him. Same height and position. Wonder if he would become a gun forward?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yet, if that 1 player suffers a season-ending injury, what happens to the team? Invest in the many not the few.

Out of say 25 top 5 picks you might get 2 proper star players.
A player like Reid comes along every 50-100 top 5 picks so you just get him if you possibly can.

 

[boulders]

Interesting to see Jagga will be playing for Richmond's VFL side over the next month.

Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon etc seem to do this a lot with prospective draftees. Get a first hand look at them playing in their VFL side.

Can't ever recall Sandringham doing the same. Probably says a lot about our alignment and it's shortcomings.

 

[Yabadoo22]

I read somewhere that jagga finished year 12 last year. I wonder what he is doing this year? I worry about kids who are developed early, with no room for improvement. If he is doing nothing but training, and hitting the gym, gaining advantage over his peers, he might get caught up to quick.

 

[BigMonty]

Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon etc seem to do this a lot with prospective draftees. Get a first hand look at them playing in their VFL side.

Can't ever recall Sandringham doing the same. Probably says a lot about our alignment and it's shortcomings.

Same but different. We had McLean under our noses at Sandy, he was raw hard nut competed hard took pack marks and was a goer. Saw him a few times in games and thought here's a likely type.

Exposed form.....yeah nah let's get Clavarino unexposed 18 year old burn a pick but he was the right pick at the right time...as a recruiting department we are blameless we did our job everyone agrees.

Result blameless unaccountable selection he was in the draft.....stupid he was the next best pick...look and see our spreadsheet. As distinct from McLean, with no spreadsheet data but any person who understands football could see he had something that is not in a spreadsheet analysis but just can football ffs.

Cannot understand why we didn't take him and then Sydney goes bang and the rest is history.

Just the player we are crying out for now and most likely pay over the odds to get....

Dunb dumb dumb.. that's why we have Sandy so we can try out players under our eyes as potential picks for later in the draft rather than the next best untried 18 year old.

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[CursingFijian]

Have we figured out who is driving Battle down to Dingley?

 

[gringo2011]

We also could have taken Fischer McAsey believing that Steele, Dunny, Acres, Coff, Clark, Hanners and Bytel were gonna come good.

The revisionism that assumes Serong would have been a Saint is just such BS, and now Henry (pick 9 in 2019) is on our list at zero cost which means the final tally on what both Hill and Doogs actually cost us is............

Acres, and a second round pick (p40) in a terrible draft.

Might as well just fold then if we have to only make terrible decisions and that's our fate.

 

[gringo2011]

Most of us cant believe you are still so hung up on the 2019 trade period and the 1 good draft pick we lost while bringing in 5 players, including 3 who are still best 22.

If you can't work out when you went wrong you can't learn. It's not just that either. It's 20 years of poor management.

You guys can't accept there were mistakes made so I feel the need to keep arguing with you. I should learn that there are a good percentage of people who are incapable of admitting that the club is ever wrong.

I should just be grateful that you guys aren't employed in list management.

 

[gringo2011]

Not to mention the flow on effect on who we could pick in the drafts that followed.

Yeah we get Serong in 2019 & it pushes us up a rung or two & we miss on out on Nas & Pou.

Serong would not have pushed us as high as quickly as the sugar hit players and yes it changes everything so can't really know who would be here now. The point is we topped up when we should have been in a drafting cycle. If you can't see that I won't waste my time arguing with you.

 

[True Believer]

Serong would not have pushed us as high as quickly as the sugar hit players and yes it changes everything so can't really know who would be here now. The point is we topped up when we should have been in a drafting cycle. If you can't see that I won't waste my time arguing with you.

I think the problem here is that perspective seems to be changed in hindsight - they weren't "topping up" at that time, they were trying to fix a glaring great hole in the list profile!
However, you are right in the regard that we have a 20 year history of drafting like we were using the wheel of fortune to make our selections for us. In light of that, I don't know how you can say one particular draft was the most pivotal, they were virtually all an indictment on our list management, some were just less incriminating evidence of that than others.....

 

[BrutThough]

If you can't work out when you went wrong you can't learn. It's not just that either. It's 20 years of poor management.

You guys can't accept there were mistakes made so I feel the need to keep arguing with you. I should learn that there are a good percentage of people who are incapable of admitting that the club is ever wrong.

I should just be grateful that you guys aren't employed in list management.

So because we dont think the 2019 trade period was a mistake, it means we dont think there weren't other mistakes made by the club? Why cant we look at different decisions and different trade periods as their own entity when criticising them?

Plenty of us has criticised the club for multiple things, including list management. But we are also capable of recognising that we did some things right along the way or at least, that some of the decisions we made were sensible at the time and the outcomes has also been a good years later.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the problem here is that perspective seems to be changed in hindsight - they weren't "topping up" at that time, they were trying to fix a glaring great hole in the list profile!
However, you are right in the regard that we have a 20 year history of drafting like we were using the wheel of fortune to make our selections for us. In light of that, I don't know how you can say one particular draft was the most pivotal, they were virtually all an indictment on our list management, some were just less incriminating evidence of that than others.....

Anyone outside of the club could see that when you are losing a substantial amount of your better players and had very little youth from taking gambles on recycled and mature players with picks that the structural work hadn't been done.

A list manager needs to know first and foremost where you sit in the cycle. We were not Hill, Howard, Butler and Ryder off a flag. I was telling people at the time along with Mowman and others.

Every successful rebuild has at it's core the bulk work done at the draft. You can be lucky and make a few really good calls and pick up players that slide but generally the further you fall the quicker the bulk drafting will be done.

Then you start to hone and work out who to put time and effort into. Cull the stragglers and the ones with less talent, poor attitude etc. Look at where your holes are for the next challenge and go cherry pick a few at other clubs to fill the holes.

That's a rough blueprint. Follow that and eventually you will get results. How well you draft and develop will dictate the time it takes to move forward.

It was pivotal because that was an expensive Lethlean review and appointments to suit to make those calls. He set us back 5 to 7 years. We'd now be starting to bear fruit if he'd done it right the first time.

Carlton did it for years too and eventually they started getting shit right and especially drafting and moved forward with momentum. Melbourne and Essendon did too. You don't ruin all your future prospects but you certainly make it a really long drawn out process.