List Mgmt. 2024 List management Discussion

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This is solely for list management discussion, Trades discussion goes in the trade thread, and Draft prospect discussion goes in it's relevant thread.

Free Agency - Friday, October 4 and will run until Friday, October 11.
Trade Period - Monday, October 7 and will run until Wednesday, October 16.
National Draft - Round One - Wednesday, November 20 followed by the remaining rounds of the
National Draft - The rest - Thursday, November 21.
Rookie and Pre-Season Draft - Friday, November 22.
 
Last edited:
L_W_P said:
4 way trade -

GC: Lose 12, get Noble
Pies: Lose Noble, Get Stringer
Bombers: Lose Stringer, Get Membrey
Saints: Lose Membrey, Get pick 12.

Based on all the 'speculation' from 'experts' this is a fair deal.
Click to expand...
You’d definitely take that and run 🏃‍♀️
 
A question that is not asked enough is - why don't the Saints have any old players?

The successful clubs constantly have guys who play until age 34/35. Look at the Pies with Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Howe all playing 33+. The Cats with Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Blicavs all 33+. The Swans with Rampe, Franklin, Parker all 33+. Heck, even Rhys Stanley is still playing at almost 34.

Why do all our players have their careers end so early?

Jack Steven is currently aged 34. David Armitage is currently 35. Josh Bruce is currently 32. Jack Newnes is currently 31. Seb Ross is currently 31.

Why does every other team have players that go on until their mid-30s and no one at St Kilda does? Were they all just rubbish players?

Brad Hill looks like the only guy who will play past age 33 for St Kilda since Joey retired 8 years ago (excl Ryder who was a late career trade from elsewhere). Hopefully we can buck the trend with another 4-5 years of good footy left in Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall and Steele.
 
Oh When the Saints said:
A question that is not asked enough is - why don't the Saints have any old players?

The successful clubs constantly have guys who play until age 34/35. Look at the Pies with Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Howe all playing 33+. The Cats with Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Blicavs all 33+. The Swans with Rampe, Franklin, Parker all 33+. Heck, even Rhys Stanley is still playing at almost 34.

Why do all our players have their careers end so early?

Jack Steven is currently aged 34. David Armitage is currently 35. Josh Bruce is currently 32. Jack Newnes is currently 31. Seb Ross is currently 31.

Why does every other team have players that go on until their mid-30s and no one at St Kilda does? Were they all just rubbish players?

Brad Hill looks like the only guy who will play past age 33 for St Kilda since Joey retired 8 years ago (excl Ryder who was a late career trade from elsewhere). Hopefully we can buck the trend with another 4-5 years of good footy left in Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall and Steele.
Click to expand...

Simple, none have been good enough to keep going after they have passed their prime.

Steven and Armo probably mitigating circumstances with injury and personal issues.
 

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The Punter said:
Also, almost all those older players played in premierships for those teams.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I think the answer is the players we had in the bracket just weren't stars. Wood is now contracted until 34, as is Hill. Hopefully Marshall, Steele, Sinclair and Wilkie (& Macrae if we get him) will go well past 30 also.
 
TheJackal said:
Exactly, I think the answer is the players we had in the bracket just weren't stars. Wood is now contracted until 34, as is Hill. Hopefully Marshall, Steele, Sinclair and Wilkie will go well past 30 also.
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Also, clubs are usually reluctant to kick premiership players out the door. Collingwood are certainly not making the hard call on a few.
 
Oh When the Saints said:
A question that is not asked enough is - why don't the Saints have any old players?

The successful clubs constantly have guys who play until age 34/35. Look at the Pies with Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Howe all playing 33+. The Cats with Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Blicavs all 33+. The Swans with Rampe, Franklin, Parker all 33+. Heck, even Rhys Stanley is still playing at almost 34.

Why do all our players have their careers end so early?

Jack Steven is currently aged 34. David Armitage is currently 35. Josh Bruce is currently 32. Jack Newnes is currently 31. Seb Ross is currently 31.

Why does every other team have players that go on until their mid-30s and no one at St Kilda does? Were they all just rubbish players?

Brad Hill looks like the only guy who will play past age 33 for St Kilda since Joey retired 8 years ago (excl Ryder who was a late career trade from elsewhere). Hopefully we can buck the trend with another 4-5 years of good footy left in Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall and Steele.
Click to expand...

One word = SUCCESS. It's a common theme when clubs havent reached the ultimate goal.

They are continually striving for success but lose sight of the value of the older players eg Seb Ross. He deserved another year just to play VFL and be a leader at Sandringham, but list spots are a premium particularly in a strong draft year.

The game now is quicker than ever and people seem to think if a 30yo has a form slump they are completely cooked ala Membrey. Half the people on this forum were calling for his delisting half way through the year.

Its a fine line between having sufficient spots for kids and hanging onto senior players. I would like to see the AFL make TPP allowances for clubs to keep a couple of their senior players listed outside the cap and list numbers.
 
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SteeleSaints said:
Its a fine line between having sufficient spots for kids and hanging onto senior players. I would like to see the AFL make TPP allowances for clubs to keep a couple of their senior players listed outside the cap and list numbers.
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Agree with this idea....I'm sure it used to happen with a couple of "veteran" spots at each club where only half their salary counted in the cap........
 
L_W_P said:
FB: Webster - ??? - Wilkie
HB: Sinclair - ??? - NWM
C: Hill - Steele - Wood
HF: Owens - King - Wilson
FF: Higgins - ??? - Butler
R: Marshall - Windhager - Philippou

Caminiti - Best 22 but at FF or FB?
Sharman - Surely he stays in the team, even with King back?
Howard - I like him at CHB, not the last line. Does Ross rate him though?
Keeler/Heath - Are they ready for a taste in 2025?

Plenty of mid/flanker options to fill out the bench but our KPP stocks need addressing for sure.

I actually wouldn't be against trading pick 8 (or a Future 1st) to say Sydney for their first two picks to try and grab the Whitlock boys, Jonty Faull or Tom Sims. Assuming Ross is moving Hammer to FB of course.

A future 1st for the Swans pick could see us walk out of the draft with Bo Allen, Murphy Reid and the Whitlocks.

That would be insane.
Click to expand...
Howard re-signed for 1 more season, according to Saints TV
 
If Lalor has the attributes, especially in the midfield, that have been mentioned, the Saints, need him.
Hotton, Lindsay & Oliver should seriously be considered. The latter two, possibly the best kicks in this draft.
Dodson looks a good Ruck prospect.
Barrat looks a good KP prospect, who we could get at a pick later on.
These players pretty much fill our needs too.
 

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The Punter said:
Hill has just re-signed for 3 years. If you don't think we are contending by 2027... I don't share that pessimism.

We sold Bruce so we could play King. Hickey the same with Marshall in the end. Neither played AFL in 2024 BTW.

So we "decorated" going into 2020. Won a final, then 2021 was in large part because we completely stuffed the pre-season. Late return for everyone, but no standards. It caught Coffield up (he thought he had arrived after top 5 B&F 2020) and some others. It was like a repeat of 2006 only we weren't as good as the GT Saints. Largely turned things around for the first half of 2022 (which a lot of people now act like was 2018), then just couldn't get over the line in one or two games, probably because Ratten wasn't the taskmaster we needed.

And we decorated because we identified need and then were presented with opportunity. The "just keep drafting till we come good" experiment has been run: it tends to not work without heavy AFL intervention (Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, North Melbourne). Find someone around this forum who thinks we can rely on heavy AFL intervention if we are terrible for a sustained period. Most think it'll be a plane to Auckland or Darwin. I've sat through 2000 and 2014 and 2018 - it bloody sucks. Since our last bottom four rebuild was completed we've won 12, 11, 5.5 (2018 blip), 9, 11, 10, 11, 13 and 11 games. As I've said many, many times, if you want the "don't decorate" done properly, you need to turn up to every single 10 goal flogging every week so we still have a club at the end of it. Think this year's home game against Brisbane every week. I don't trust most Saints fans to turn up to games through the thin as well as the thick - the evidence doesn't bear that out. So IMO the option open to us is the one chosen. We are getting the draft right now. I think the last few weeks of the season provide cause for optimism: Carlton had everything to play for, threw the kitchen sink at us for four quarters (unlike Geelong the week before) and we still won.

So take pick 7 & 8 (hopefully), make your best choice on two midfielders based on information available at the time, see what other opportunities present (Macrae) and coach 'em up.
Click to expand...


Still made it take years longer. We have had a couple of sugar hits and back too drafting like we should have the first time. Realistically we have one of the longest rebuilds in modern AFL. It was an absolutely irresponsible move and cost guys jobs in the industry.


We didn't need to bottom out, we already had a level of GOP. We stepped out of drafts to add more.
 
Oh When the Saints said:
A question that is not asked enough is - why don't the Saints have any old players?

The successful clubs constantly have guys who play until age 34/35. Look at the Pies with Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Howe all playing 33+. The Cats with Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Blicavs all 33+. The Swans with Rampe, Franklin, Parker all 33+. Heck, even Rhys Stanley is still playing at almost 34.

Why do all our players have their careers end so early?

Jack Steven is currently aged 34. David Armitage is currently 35. Josh Bruce is currently 32. Jack Newnes is currently 31. Seb Ross is currently 31.

Why does every other team have players that go on until their mid-30s and no one at St Kilda does? Were they all just rubbish players?

Brad Hill looks like the only guy who will play past age 33 for St Kilda since Joey retired 8 years ago (excl Ryder who was a late career trade from elsewhere). Hopefully we can buck the trend with another 4-5 years of good footy left in Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall and Steele.
Click to expand...


Those elite medical staff may not have been quite as elite as they seemed.
 
Saintscomemarchingin said:
If Lalor has the attributes, especially in the midfield, that have been mentioned, the Saints, need him.
Hotton, Lindsay & Oliver should seriously be considered. The latter two, possibly the best kicks in this draft.
Dodson looks a good Ruck prospect.
Barrat looks a good KP prospect, who we could get at a pick later on.
These players pretty much fill our needs too.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't hesitate to grab Lindsay at 8, and if one of say Lalor or Smilie slip to us it makes a good combo.
 
Ekomaira said:
may as well have a crack. former #10 pick. might be able to get the best out of him
Click to expand...


You wonder what the knock is. He was meant to be a big mid maybe a bit of a hybrid forward type. He's what I worry might be the issue with guys like Lalor and Smillie. Not really a specialist in either.

Last I heard his WAFL numbers were really good. You imagine that Freo shopped him and didn't get any takers.
 
Ekomaira said:
may as well have a crack. former #10 pick. might be able to get the best out of him
Click to expand...
To tell you the truth the kid is from the West and sometimes they are better off away from family and friends just to focus on playing football.
Hopefully the kids career can be saved because he still only a 20yr old - would be a good pick up if he is willing to have a good crack ,
 
Oh When the Saints said:
A question that is not asked enough is - why don't the Saints have any old players?

The successful clubs constantly have guys who play until age 34/35. Look at the Pies with Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Howe all playing 33+. The Cats with Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Blicavs all 33+. The Swans with Rampe, Franklin, Parker all 33+. Heck, even Rhys Stanley is still playing at almost 34.

Why do all our players have their careers end so early?

Jack Steven is currently aged 34. David Armitage is currently 35. Josh Bruce is currently 32. Jack Newnes is currently 31. Seb Ross is currently 31.

Why does every other team have players that go on until their mid-30s and no one at St Kilda does? Were they all just rubbish players?

Brad Hill looks like the only guy who will play past age 33 for St Kilda since Joey retired 8 years ago (excl Ryder who was a late career trade from elsewhere). Hopefully we can buck the trend with another 4-5 years of good footy left in Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall and Steele.
Click to expand...

If you have followed our club longer than a few years, you’ll be well aware of the specific circumstances related to many of the players that you mention.

For example, Jack Steven retired early mental health issues (after wanting to be traded back home for ar least a year). David Armitage retired early with back issues.

Furthermore, Roberton retired early with heart issues. Koby Stevens retired early with concussion issues. Paddy McCartin was delisted early with concussion issues, even if he revived his career somewhat later.

The rest of the players were either too mediocre to survive the necessary minimum churn and/or reached their apparent ceiling, which, as other posters have said, in a premiership side may I have been supportable, but in a club striving to improve their list, they were never going to be given infinite chances. I speak of Newnes, Phillips, Langlands, Clavarino, Austin, Mayo, Parker, Young Hind, Dunstan, Weller, Billings and many many more.

Bruce is a slightly different case. Like Gresham he could have easily coasted along to 300 games at St Kilda but was one of those very rare things: a St Kilda player with external currency. We thought we were well stocked enough in his part of the ground and dismissed his capability to be useful as a mentor for Max King, so we pulled the trigger. Probably one of the moves that backfired and cost Gags his job many years later.

As for Ross, if we'd had better midfielders around him no doubt he'd have been retained for depth. As it is, facing a midfielder-heavy draft, with a decision to build around our younger players, and with an influx of draftees expected, the number 6 locker is more valuable to us empty than full of baggage from our weakest period in the last 23 years. If we had had a competent list manager at the time, he probably would have been traded 5 years ago, so he shouldnt be questioning our loyalty, just our timing.
 

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