List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Silencer83]

I agree. We need a very dangerous small to complete the team. Shultz was decent but not at that A grade level. And now we don't even have him. Someone like a Charlie Cameron or Eddie Betts type that freaks oppo defences out. We need that string to win a flag. Thankfully we have like a million first rounders to make it happen next year. If we blow that on another tall that might be 10-20% better than one of our current talls, I'll murder the whole club.

While I agree that it would be great to have a player of the quality of Charlie Cameron or Eddie Betts, how many premierships have they won as players?

0

Kosi won a premiership as one of the worst players in the Grand Final.

Bobby Hill was all potential and not an elite small small forward before putting in the game of his career on Grand Final day.

If Sonny is our Josh Thomas veteran small forward, what is to say Emmett, Delean, Frederick, Simpson etc couldn't be our Bobby Hill?

 

[Docker82]

While I agree that it would be great to have a player of the quality of Charlie Cameron or Eddie Betts, how many premierships have they won as players?

0

Kosi won a premiership as one of the worst players in the Grand Final.

Bobby Hill was all potential and not an elite small small forward before putting in the game of his career on Grand Final day.

If Sonny is our Josh Thomas veteran small forward, what is to say Emmett, Delean, Frederick, Simpson etc couldn't be our Bobby Hill?

I'm not convinced Schultz isn't a better player than literally every single small forward that played for Collingwood in last year's grand final. I'd probably have Elliott ahead of him.

Bobby Hill had a great game but in terms of consistency and what you can expect from him week upon week I think Schultz is a more effective small forward tbh.

Also it'd be ideal if we had a genuine A Grade small forward. Let's not pretend the guys we already have are hacks though. Get an elite small forward in there and increase Treacy to 30-35 goals a season (or get McDonald) the rest of the forward line can be premiership forward line. No premiership side has had six guys get 40+ goals but that seems to be what some on this board want/think we need.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I'm not convinced Schultz isn't a better player than literally every single small forward that played for Collingwood in last year's grand final. I'd probably have Elliott ahead of him.

Bobby Hill had a great game but in terms of consistency and what you can expect from him week upon week I think Schultz is a more effective small forward tbh.

Also it'd be ideal if we had a genuine A Grade small forward. Let's not pretend the guys we already have are hacks though. Get an elite small forward in there and increase Treacy to 30-35 goals a season (or get McDonald) the rest of the forward line can be premiership forward line. No premiership side has had six guys get 40+ goals but that seems to be what some on this board want/think we need.

Last year I thought we were weak in our small to medium forwards, and Walters was arguable our best small forward.

He is 34, Schultz is gone who did provide great pressure and kicked 33, JOM is 29 but aging poorly and only has 1 or 2 years left. That is potentially 3 forwards gone in 2 years.

Switta is constantly injured, same with Sturt. Frederick appears to be a high half forward, rather than a small forward.

I don't see how we don't need 2 or 3 good small to medium forwards this year. Personally, I would like Zurhaar plus 2 more with our first 4 picks, plus a line breaking mid in the Milera-Wanganeen or Hill mold.

 

[go_the_dockers]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/trade-wrap-race-on-for-versatile-tiger-liam-baker-young-saint-mattaes-phillipou-looks-to-resign/news-story/b6adf10719e47dba5b05ca6dff622308

Victorian rivals have joined the queue of West Australian clubs chasing Richmond’s Mr Fix-It Liam Baker

7

Liam Baker

Age

26

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

222.2

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

191.9

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

224.2

4star

as he postpones contract negotiations until later this season.
Baker re-signed despite intense interest from Fremantle and West Coast two seasons ago and is out of contract as a 26-year-old entering his prime.

Baker is content to assess how Richmond’s season unfolds with a new coaching team and game plan under senior coach Adem Yze

Adem Yze

Age

47

Ht

187cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

0.6

1star

T

0.6

3star

.

He has also been told he will be playing as a full-time midfielder this season as the Tigers again attempt to compete in the first year without premiership coach Damien Hardwick.


Baker is well paid given that interest on a deal of around $600,000 but with so many clubs boasting huge cap space - North Melbourne, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Essendon have ample room - teams are aggressively chasing quality midfielders.

Baker finished sixth in the club’s best-and-fairest last year and will join the likes of free agents Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

and Dion Prestia

3

Dion Prestia

Age

32

Ht

175cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.1

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

3.2

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

who are in no hurry to decide their futures.

Richmond will be optimistic he will again sign on after stating when he signed his latest contract he was always keen to be at Punt Road despite Fremantle joining West Coast’s season-long interest.

 

[freo_leo29]

To win the flag you need to have at least one small forward that’s close to AA level.
Yes we got lucky in 2008 drafting Sonny with a throw at the stumps junk pick. I’d like to see a list of every pick 53 since then - I’d be fairly confident most of them are/were fringe spuds that never made it?

We are trying to get away on the cheap with smalls. Skimping and hoping we hit gold with a nothing pick. I’d even settle for spending one top 25 pick on a specialist small forward. Simpson is a midfielder.

It’s matchwinners we are short of. Good small forward are matchwinners. Our competition will be the likes of GWS and Adelaide in the coming years and we saw last year - Rankine and Rachele tearing us a new arseh*le at the Adelaide oval. GWS went out and spent pick 12 this year on phoenix gothard, with Daniels and Bedford (another underrated player) already in the sheds.
Bobby hill and Elliott for the pies.
Lions with Cameron, an absolute gun plus goal sneaks like Bailey.
Yeah walters is in that bracket but he’s nearly done. We are trying to compete with the players named above by getting speculative 4th rounders like Delean or train ons like max Beattie. The odds are it won’t be enough. That’s my point.

It’s not enough. It’s the biggest hole in our list by a mile. Overall I really like the list we have build and the guys we are bringing in.

But now we are looking at another potential elite tall in McDonald, who will force Treacy (a good promising player) to another club. I can guarantee you now he’s not sitting about here to play for peel in 2025 while Logan takes his place. They can’t all play in the same team.

Meanwhile in the small forward brigade the cupboard is bare.
Here a question - do you prefer spend two first round picks next October on Kosi Pickett or Logan Mcdonald?
For me it’s Pickett. He would light up our forward line at ground level under the tripe J combo.

Sonny was 53
Schultz 58
Cameron a rookie
Elliot a prelist (generally comparable to a 30s pick)
Bedford in the 40s I think
Hill was like 25?

Kozi the only one in the top 15 that you named

I think it's a fair assessment that you can pick elite smalls lower in the draft

 

[freo_leo29]

I'll be staggered if we're interested in Stengle at all.

If we aren't interested in zurhaar due to character then we won't touch stebgle at all

 

[Joao]

Last year I thought we were weak in our small to medium forwards, and Walters was arguable our best small forward.

He is 34, Schultz is gone who did provide great pressure and kicked 33, JOM is 29 but aging poorly and only has 1 or 2 years left. That is potentially 3 forwards gone in 2 years.

Switta is constantly injured, same with Sturt. Frederick appears to be a high half forward, rather than a small forward.

I don't see how we don't need 2 or 3 good small to medium forwards this year. Personally, I would like Zurhaar plus 2 more with our first 4 picks, plus a line breaking mid in the Milera-Wanganeen or Hill mold.

Why are you trying to make out that JoM aging is an issue? He kicked 7 goals in 2023. We should be excited to replace him with literally anybody else in the forwardline.

It's something we need to address for sure, but JoM is not a part of that.

 

[Taylor]

I only remember O'Meara playing briefly forward last season and when he was there, I think the first time, he took two marks on the lead and converted both for goals.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Why are you trying to make out that JoM aging is an issue? He kicked 7 goals in 2023. We should be excited to replace him with literally anybody else in the forwardline.

It's something we need to address for sure, but JoM is not a part of that.

He appears to be a coaches favourite, and has a contract for 2 or 3 more years so won't be dropped quickly.

but I agree with you, he needs a big year or he should be out of the 22.

 

[Dockeroo]

The elephant in the Logan mcdonald room is Josh Treacy?
They cannot play on the same team. It’s quite feasible Treacy kicks 30 goals this year and is traded for a R2 pick when Logan arrives.

Before anyone says it - we cannot play 4 talls in attack.
Treacy does not clunk enough marks to be a defender either. Plus we have Cox and Pearce and Ryan back there.

 

[wakojako]

I only remember O'Meara playing briefly forward last season and when he was there, I think the first time, he took two marks on the lead and converted both for goals.

Against North Melbourne, I don't think we should put too much weight behind one game against the second worst club in the comp.

 

[Joao]

I only remember O'Meara playing briefly forward last season and when he was there, I think the first time, he took two marks on the lead and converted both for goals.

He's probably capable of a goal a game, but my point is his current forward output is approximately zero. So when looking to replace him all we have to find is zero.

Hence, he's not an issue for our forwardline at all.

He appears to be a coaches favourite, and has a contract for 2 or 3 more years so won't be dropped quickly.

but I agree with you, he needs a big year or he should be out of the 22.

See above. My only point is his current production is almost nothing. Therefore replacing him or not is basically trivial either way.

 

[Dockeroo]

I only remember O'Meara playing briefly forward last season and when he was there, I think the first time, he took two marks on the lead and converted both for goals.

He’s a very nice set shot. I don’t mind at all him ending up with the footy in his hands within 40 m of goal after a mark. Much more reliable than the likes of Switta in that position.

 

[Taylor]

The elephant in the Logan mcdonald room is Josh Treacy?
They cannot play on the same team. It’s quite feasible Treacy kicks 30 goals this year and is traded for a R2 pick when Logan arrives.

Before anyone says it - we cannot play 4 talls in attack.
Treacy does not clunk enough marks to be a defender either. Plus we have Cox and Pearce and Ryan back there.

I'll say it. If Treacy is clunking marks, just half the ones he currently gets hands to and drops, then he is either our CHF or F/Ruck for the next ten years.

Amiss doesn't need to be playing out of the square and doesn't need to be leading from CHF, McDonald is a full forward.

And Jackson is a midfielder from 2025 onwards.

 

[Joao]

If Jackson's midfield output is good enough, you probably can play all 4. Jackson would be 60-20-20 (mid/ruck/forw) where he only goes forward when one of the other 3 are off the field.

 

[go_the_dockers]

See above. My only point is his current production is almost nothing. Therefore replacing him or not is basically trivial either way.

I guess my point is, that we don't have anyone in the 2nd's ready to replace him, Walters or Schultz.

When you have 3 players in your forward line leaving (regardless of output), and no one in the 2nds pushing for the best 22 except Banfield it is an issue.

 

[Joao]

I guess my point is, that we don't have anyone in the 2nd's ready to replace him, Walters or Schultz.

When you have 3 players in your forward line leaving (regardless of output), and no one in the 2nds pushing for the best 22 except Banfield it is an issue.

That doesn't make sense. Walters and Schultz - agree, we need to find those replacements.

JoM - has done nothing as a forward. There is nothing to replace. Not only that, but by your own admission we have 2 years to find someone to do nothing - I'm sure we'll cope.

 

[Purpletown]

I'm not convinced Schultz isn't a better player than literally every single small forward that played for Collingwood in last year's grand final. I'd probably have Elliott ahead of him.

Bobby Hill had a great game but in terms of consistency and what you can expect from him week upon week I think Schultz is a more effective small forward tbh.

Also it'd be ideal if we had a genuine A Grade small forward. Let's not pretend the guys we already have are hacks though. Get an elite small forward in there and increase Treacy to 30-35 goals a season (or get McDonald) the rest of the forward line can be premiership forward line. No premiership side has had six guys get 40+ goals but that seems to be what some on this board want/think we need.

Agree with you that Schultz is underrated, he brings pressure onto the defence with his work rate when the ball is in dispute or the opposition have it. He is a huge loss to Freo.

Bobby Hill had a break out finals series and was the player of the finals for me. It will be interesting to see if he can replicate that form in 2024.

 

[millsy]

If Jackson's midfield output is good enough, you probably can play all 4. Jackson would be 60-20-20 (mid/ruck/forw) where he only goes forward when one of the other 3 are off the field.

What happens midfield in this scenario?

We retire Fyfe, consign Brodie and Ras to pure depth and tell Johnson he's primarily a wingman forever more?

 

[Paracleet]

What happens midfield in this scenario?

We retire Fyfe, consign Brodie and Ras to pure depth and tell Johnson he's primarily a wingman forever more?

Well you play 4 inside mids, they rotate 75/25 off the bench so one is always off. In your scenario where Fyfe is gone and Brodie and Ras aren't in the 22 you could still have Jackson and Johnson on ball without any of them having to play another position.

You want me to guess I'd say future playing plans would be 1) Ras* Pure clearance and defend 2&3) Serong and Johnson genuine inside/out 4) Brayshaw spread / defend and end to end. 5) Jackson mid pure clearance / ruck / forward rotation. Fyfe retired. Brodie gawn.

*Someone else if he doesn't make it or they all move up. You ask me to choose now rather than sit on the fence then as a stand alone genuine mid I don't think Ras will make it. As a defensive mid, even part time tagger, who can also win his own ball I think he definitely can.

Anyway we can almost guarantee I think that with all of Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw, JOM, Ras, Johnson, Brodie, Jackson on the list, with rumblings that Simpson is rolled gold and will end up on ball, that at least 1 is going to be squeezed out of the club.

 

[Paracleet]

Funny sort of musing on where we are at list wise I think we have a lot to thank Bell for even though it is extremely unlikely the outcomes we have got are what he intended. He has by fumbling stands off in contract negations and having players leave, and by his initial decision to essentially have a second mini rebuild, ended up with a list with a very high number of top talent players who are all under 23 (only Brayshaw and Darcy/Cox are 24/25). Obviously for this plan to work we have had to overperform in the draft luck wise and I think we have.

It means we have the leisure to keep trading in high end talent over a 3 or 4 year period and not compromise the future list profile. The ten year run el presidenti is touting becomes almost possible rather than just hyperbole.

 

[rgauci]

The elephant in the Logan mcdonald room is Josh Treacy?
They cannot play on the same team. It’s quite feasible Treacy kicks 30 goals this year and is traded for a R2 pick when Logan arrives.

Before anyone says it - we cannot play 4 talls in attack.
Treacy does not clunk enough marks to be a defender either. Plus we have Cox and Pearce and Ryan back there.

Key forwards - Macdonald and Treacy
3rd forward - Amiss
Crumbing forward / mid / match winner - Jackson

It can work.

 

[millsy]

Well you play 4 inside mids, they rotate 75/25 off the bench so one is always off. In your scenario where Fyfe is gone and Brodie and Ras aren't in the 22 you could still have Jackson and Johnson on ball without any of them having to play another position.

You want me to guess I'd say future playing plans would be 1) Ras* Pure clearance and defend 2&3) Serong and Johnson genuine inside/out 4) Brayshaw spread / defend and end to end. 5) Jackson mid pure clearance / ruck / forward rotation. Fyfe retired. Brodie gawn.

*Someone else if he doesn't make it or they all move up. You ask me to choose now rather than sit on the fence then as a stand alone genuine mid I don't think Ras will make it. As a defensive mid, even part time tagger, who can also win his own ball I think he definitely can.

Anyway we can almost guarantee I think that with all of Fyfe, Serong, Brayshaw, JOM, Ras, Johnson, Brodie, Jackson on the list, with rumblings that Simpson is rolled gold and will end up on ball, that at least 1 is going to be squeezed out of the club.

Before I digest your post, re your 4 x 75/25 splits, are you factoring in Young as one of the 4 mids or playing him elsewhere?

 

[Paracleet]

Before I digest your post, re your 4 x 75/25 splits, are you factoring in Young as one of the 4 mids or playing him elsewhere?

Nah I forgot

So its actually 9 inside mids

 

[vidwhal]

Probably a one in ten chance that Delean is as good as Sonny.
We need to draft a small forward in the first round to have a better chance of getting a decent player. A weightman/Pickett type in the pick 12-13 range (where they were picked) would be ideal.

I'm sure we thought that in '08 when we had an aging Farmer. Our last two AA smalls have been very low picks so I'm bullish on Delean. All about who can play the role, whether they end up being better, or as good as our current incumbents. I think in time Delean will show it. He's already shown too much ability to be considered a bust imo. He just needs to learn the systems.