List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[Vader]

Surely we’re in the ears of Heath and Knobel, who both have at least 2 ruck-men ahead of them in the pecking order.

I know Knobel is still relatively raw but with three pre-seasons under his belt he’s more prepared for full time rucking than Strachan is IMO.

That's the thing - we don't want or need a full-time ruckman. We want/need a break-glass-in-emergency ruckman, who is content to play entire seasons in the SANFL.

Now, if we're talking about replacing ROB, then it's a different story - but it appears the club has set their sights on Sam Draper (for reasons inexplicable, given his inherent spudliness) as an RFA in 2025. Presumably they're going to make him an offer that Essendon will refuse to match.

 

[Mutineer]

The problem is an 18 yo rookie type ruck might not be able to play for 3-4 years , we would have to replace Strachan with a mature ruck

I'll guarantee you Flynn Penry will not take that long, 2 years max.

This is not some skinny gangly beanpole, he's already a big unit that would only need to hone his ruck skills in the SANFL under a full time AFL ruck coach for a year or two. I'd be confident he'd already be competitive with most of the SANFL rucks as would someone like Joe Pike who has already had a taste of VFL this season. Share ruck duties with Strachan in 2025, delist Strachan end of 2025 and Flynn or even Joe take over full time SANFL ruck duties. We must have a development ruck behind ROB or even Draper who I think is only a pipedream anyhow. Redman all over again.

 

[Big Dub]

The problem is an 18 yo rookie type ruck might not be able to play for 3-4 years , we would have to replace Strachan with a mature ruck

Yeah, I think we do need one for backup now and one to develop.

A good state league ruck should be enough for the backup. With really low effort, someone like the WAFL's Lachlan Blackiston (26 yo 204cm 16 disposals 33 hit outs) or Liam Reidy (24yo 204cm 11.7 disposals 45 hitouts, WAFL state team 2nd ruck)?

 

[Vader]

Burgess played 3 games across 2022 and 2023 and was out of contract in 2024. He wasn't getting another contract, or game, from Gold Coast. We offered him an extra year, a chance to earn an AFL game (he got 7) and a free flight home.

You don't have to pay much for that.

As I said, not a big contract - but still well above minimum chips. We were also asking him to uproot himself and move interstate. Players don't do that just for "minimum chips", just for an extra 1 year on the contract.

I don't know how big Burgess' 2025 contract is, or how much room we have remaining in our 2024 salary cap - and by extension how much flexibility we would have for delisting and paying out a contracted player. If we had the space, and the ability to fill the vacancy with a worthwhile player (not draft pick 70+), then Burgess would be the first (and only) player on my "hit list".

If ROB goes down in round 1, Strachan isn't getting us into finals. Neither will a ruck we pick this year, but we would get games into him so we don't have this exact same problem next year. Mutineer has some rucks that he likes that would be available at our last pick this year. I'd rather grab one of those than keep Stachan or Burgess for another year.

I don't think the club will do it, but we would be better off if they did.

I'm not against the idea of drafting and developing a ruckman as ROB's designated successor. I've been calling for it for several years now. However, that's a completely separate role/position to that which is currently being filled by Strachan.
I am not at all in favour of drafting a kid, then throwing them in the deep end before they're ready to swim, if ROB goes down for the count. That's a great way to screw up a young kid's development.

 

[Vader]

I'll guarantee you Flynn Penry will not take that long, 2 years max.

This is not some skinny gangly beanpole, he's already a big unit that would only need to hone his ruck skills in the SANFL under a full time AFL ruck coach for a year or two. I'd be confident he'd already be competitive with most of the SANFL rucks as would someone like Joe Pike who has already had a taste of VFL this season. Share ruck duties with Strachan in 2025, delist Strachan end of 2025 and Flynn or even Joe take over full time SANFL ruck duties. We must have a development ruck behind ROB or even Draper who I think is only a pipedream anyhow. Redman all over again.

This, I agree with. We need a developing ruck in addition to Strachan - not as a replacement for Strachan in the current draft cycle.

 

[Vader]

Yeah, I think we do need one for backup now and one to develop.

A good state league ruck should be enough for the backup. With really low effort, someone like the WAFL's Lachlan Blackiston (26 yo 204cm 16 disposals 33 hit outs) or Liam Reidy (24yo 204cm 11.7 disposals 45 hitouts, WAFL state team 2nd ruck)?

That's what we have now in Strachan, which is why he's been on the list for so long (much longer than we gave his predecessors in Graham & Lowden).

Strachan's days are now numbered, and it's unlikely he gets another contract beyond 2025 - and these are exactly the type of players we should be looking at as his replacement.

 

[Mutineer]

There are 2 excellent ruck prospects coming through next draft in Louis Emmett and Cooper Duff-Tytler, Emmett however may be seen as more a forward/ruck but Duff-Tytler looks like the 1st ruck to go next year, both very athletic and serious prospects but likely to require a premium pivk.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

There are 2 excellent ruck prospects coming through next draft in Louis Emmett and Cooper Duff-Tytler, Emmett however may be seen as more a forward/ruck but Duff-Tytler looks like the 1st ruck to go next year, both very athletic and serious prospects but likely to require a premium pivk.

We NEED to get Dodson this year IMO

 

[Mutineer]

This, I agree with. We need a developing ruck in addition to Strachan - not as a replacement for Strachan in the current draft cycle.

I disagree move a player on and bring in a Flynn Penry or Joe Pike type to develop sharing the SANFL ruck with Strachan in 2025, delist Strachan at year's end....list management's big failing is not attending to our ruck department after seeing that Strachan just does not have the tank or strength for AFL. Penry and Pike are already big units.

 

[Mutineer]

We NEED to get Dodson this year IMO

Another pipedream unless we can find a taker with next year's 1st rounder and even then it wouldn't be a given which is an extreme price to pay for a ruckman. Then there's the list spot problem to attend to.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

That's the thing - we don't want or need a full-time ruckman. We want/need a break-glass-in-emergency ruckman, who is content to play entire seasons in the SANFL.

Now, if we're talking about replacing ROB, then it's a different story - but it appears the club has set their sights on Sam Draper (for reasons inexplicable, given his inherent spudliness) as an RFA in 2025. Presumably they're going to make him an offer that Essendon will refuse to match.

I’d argue Heath and Knobel are in the perfect age bracket to offer competition, depth, and succession to ROB. Ideally they’re still a year or two away from full time rucking but I’d also back them to not be out of depth if they’re forced to full time ruck next year (Heath in particular).

They’re both third or fourth in line at clubs where their main rucks are undroppable. As we saw this year, ROB’s position is tentative, and would probably be a lot more tentative if his only competition were competent.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

ALL of them are under contract, which is why they weren't considered for delisting.

Is that how it works?

So if we want to pay out a 2025 contract early and delist the player we have to do it in the 2024 cap?

Can we not pay them their contract in 2025, included in our 2025 salary cap payments but with them not taking up a list spot?

 

[Mutineer]

That's what we have now in Strachan, which is why he's been on the list for so long (much longer than we gave his predecessors in Graham & Lowden).

Strachan's days are now numbered, and it's unlikely he gets another contract beyond 2025 - and these are exactly the type of players we should be looking at as his replacement.

If Strachan gets another contract I'm loading up the trailer with horseshit and heading over to dump it at the front door of the AFC.

 

[Mutineer]

I’d argue Heath and Knobel are in the perfect age bracket to offer competition, depth, and succession to ROB. Ideally they’re still a year or two away from full time rucking but I’d also back them to not be out of depth if they’re forced to full time ruck next year (Heath in particular).

They’re both third or fourth in line at clubs where their main rucks are undroppable. As we saw this year, ROB’s position is tentative, and would probably be a lot more tentative if his only competition were competent.

Knobel is still out of contract so he's the obvious one in that regard but you'd think Freo would be hanging on to him, just strange he's still out of contract.

Brayden Crossley is the best ruck not on an AFL list currently if mature aged is the requisite, he's definitely plug and play.

- Brayden Crossley

vfl.aflmstats.com

 

[hugecannon]

Surely we’re in the ears of Heath and Knobel, who both have at least 2 ruck-men ahead of them in the pecking order.

I know Knobel is still relatively raw but with three pre-seasons under his belt he’s more prepared for full time rucking than Strachan is IMO.

Im hoping we make a play for Heath (Mutineer has some me on him from his reports earlier in the season), if Soldo does get to St. Kilda, surely he’d be a chance to pry free.

Delist and payout Strachan, as good as he has been at SANFL level, after 5 years on the list and can’t play a full game at AFL level is unacceptable.

I don’t disagree that ROB is a serviceable first choice ruckman, but to have absolutely no one putting him under pressure to perform consistently, is ridiculous to me.

 

[hugecannon]

Knobel is still out of contract so he's the obvious one in that regard but you'd think Freo would be hanging on to him, just strange he's still out of contract.

Brayden Crossley is the best ruck not an AFL list currently if mature aged is the requisite, he's definitely plug and play.

- Brayden Crossley

vfl.aflmstats.com

Is he tall enough to compete against other first choice rucks?

 

[Vader]

I disagree move a player on and bring in a Flynn Penry or Joe Pike type to develop sharing the SANFL ruck with Strachan in 2025, delist Strachan at year's end....list management's big failing is not attending to our ruck department after seeing that Strachan just does not have the tank or strength for AFL. Penry and Pike are already big units.

What are you disagreeing with? I'm in complete agreement with what you're proposing here.

 

[Mutineer]

Is he tall enough to compete against other first choice rucks?

Was Shane Mumford tall enough, this is a ruck that uses brute strength and the new rules help to negate tall and big leapers

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I'll guarantee you Flynn Penry will not take that long, 2 years max.

This is not some skinny gangly beanpole, he's already a big unit that would only need to hone his ruck skills in the SANFL under a full time AFL ruck coach for a year or two. I'd be confident he'd already be competitive with most of the SANFL rucks as would someone like Joe Pike who has already had a taste of VFL this season. Share ruck duties with Strachan in 2025, delist Strachan end of 2025 and Flynn or even Joe take over full time SANFL ruck duties. We must have a development ruck behind ROB or even Draper who I think is only a pipedream anyhow. Redman all over again.

2 years isn’t round 2 next year though so same applies

We aren’t losing Strachan for an 18 yo ruck

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Knobel is still out of contract so he's the obvious one in that regard but you'd think Freo would be hanging on to him, just strange he's still out of contract.

Brayden Crossley is the best ruck not on an AFL list currently if mature aged is the requisite, he's definitely plug and play.

- Brayden Crossley

vfl.aflmstats.com

Yes he is re crossley but have you seen him lately ? Looks fat like a Redden or Harvey in sanfl ( ok not quite as fat)

Can’t see him being able to step up unless he had fanatical commitment to it which I don’t think he has

 

[Mutineer]

2 years isn’t round 2 next year though so same applies

We aren’t losing Strachan for an 18 yo ruck

Might as well given he's just not up to AFL level, Toby Murray with another pre-season under his belt would be the back up for ROB if absolutely required.

 

[crow2crow]

The key point is still being lost that someone raised earlier. Unless they do something in the next three days, we cannot make finals if ROB goes down for more than a couple of weeks. It is that simple

 

[Mutineer]

Yes he is re crossley but have you seen him lately ? Looks fat like a Redden or Harvey in sanfl ( ok not quite as fat)

Can’t see him being able to step up unless he had fanatical commitment to it which I don’t think he has

Yes I have he absolutely dominated the VFL Finals. We're talking 2025 back up only here aren't we given ROB has proven to be very durable over time?

Pic from the VFL Semi Final vs Geelong

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Yes I have he absolutely dominated the VFL Finals. We're talking 2025 back up only here aren't we given ROB has proven to be very durable over time?

I agree he’s a great state league player , he’s have to be hungry to commit to fitness is my view . Doesn’t look afl . Makes Sean Darcy look fit

 

[GreyCrow]

Also, If they did, you would be seriously playing with team spirit and culture. The playing group would be well aware of what you were doing to their mate and wouldn’t trust that it wouldn’t happen to them next.

Not a bad incentive to make sure you dont drop your standards I would have thought