List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Jeffcrowe]

But we still give them central roles and shift other players into roles that they weren’t drafted as and roles that lend themselves to inconsistent performances.

I said that previously just above

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We also wouldn't need to trade in experience if we had planned to develop players we had into experienced players by the time of a finals tilt

We wouldn’t need to trade in any experience if our experienced guys were a bit better is the issue I think

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I think the general problem is we played ever senior we could in the first half of the year and were still well put of the running. Then hanging on to players like Murphy, bringing Smith back only for him to get sick and be a late out to not return, Jones in a similar situation - when really giving Curtin more time, not dropping Dowling, less sub games for all the young lads and maybe giving Ryan and Edwards a taster game would have had us finish what? 15th? Right where we are anyway.

And the absolutley no one can replace Murphy is crap - if he got injured what would we do just line up with 17 on the park? We just didn't want to drop anymore senior players or drop a hard worker.

It’s also a failure in drafting as much as anything else

McHenry pick 16 of whatever

You get some good small forwards with that pick , look at Darcy Jones , Pickett , Weightman , Moore , Daniels etc … all around that pick or just before or just after in different drafts

 

[Jeffcrowe]

As for those that think you don’t need senior players with a young side look at hawthorn

Plenty of experience scattered around the ground

Difference is they perform their roles and they don’t need to be central roles like we seem to give ours when often not deserved

 

[Mutineer]

I still had Caldwell above

So did I but we all know why Caldwell slipped, he had hardly played in his draft year with torn hamstrings, rehabbed it and came back for 1 game and tore it again mimutes into the game which he'd done several times the season before. GWS could afford to take the risk that he'd run off home at the 1st opportunity....that happened almost straight away after his 2 years was up at the Giants. It would be a brave man to suggest that outcome wouldn't have been any different if we'd drafted him.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So did I but we all know why Caldwell slipped, he had hardly played in his draft year with torn hamstrings, rehabbed it and came back for 1 game and tore it again mimutes into the game which he'd done several times the season before. GWS could afford to take the risk that he'd run off home at the 1st opportunity....that happened almost straight away after his 2 years was up at the Giants. It would be a brave man to suggest that outcome wouldn't have been any different if we'd drafted him.

If it was just an unlucky effort by Hamish I’d agree but let’s be honest about his performance as a national recruiting manager over 13 years

Who is the best mid we’ve drafted while he’s been the boss ? Over 13 years … and is that guy an elite mid , A grader , B grader or ?

Also how many opportunities has he had in the 1st round? … (also given that every man and their dog including him realised we need mids )

 

[Danger in Texas]

I still had Caldwell above

If only we’d drafted my guy Butters

 

[Vader]

As for those that think you don’t need senior players with a young side look at hawthorn

Plenty of experience scattered around the ground

Difference is they perform their roles and they don’t need to be central roles like we seem to give ours when often not deserved

Last year our senior players were able to perform their roles. This year, they've fallen off the cliff, and can no longer play those important roles. The need for them hasn't gone away, but we no longer have players capable of doing it.

 

[Danger in Texas]

If it was just an unlucky effort by Hamish I’d agree but let’s be honest about his performance as a national recruiting manager over 13 years

Who is the best mid we’ve drafted while he’s been the boss ? Over 13 years … and is that guy an elite mid , A grader , B grader or ?

Also how many opportunities has he had in the 1st round? … (also given that every man and their dog including him realised we need mids )

Development team deserves a lot of the flack that Hamish (mostly rightfully) cops, too

Thank god it sounds like Bello’s moving on at the end of the year

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Last year our senior players were able to perform their roles. This year, they've fallen off the cliff, and can no longer play those important roles. The need for them hasn't gone away, but we no longer have players capable of doing it.

If you classify them as senior the only ones that have stepped up are Keays and Hinge

Still don’t classify fog as senior but he’s stepped up too

Couple of guys not drafted by Ogilvie

I just think the evidence against Ogilvie these days is damning , Rankine and Dawson our 2 A grade + or elite players ( also not drafted in )

It’s either Ogilvie or development but I think it’s likely the former more than the later

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Development team deserves a lot of the flack that Hamish (mostly rightfully) cops, too

Thank god it sounds like Bello’s moving on at the end of the year

Not sure about that , I’d say 70:30 as a guess

 

[Danger in Texas]

It’s also a failure in drafting as much as anything else

McHenry pick 16 of whatever

You get some good small forwards with that pick , look at Darcy Jones , Pickett , Weightman , Moore , Daniels etc … all around that pick or just before or just after in different drafts

Common theme being speed and/or general athleticism. Moore a bit of a different case given he gets a lot of the ball for a forward

Not sure what role we had in mind for McHenry, in foresight. I can understand if we wanted to play and develop him up the ground, but I reckon we saw Richmond’s small brigade and thought ‘oh we need some pressure players’, without taking into account the bigger picture

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Common theme being speed and/or general athleticism. Moore a bit of a different case given he gets a lot of the ball for a forward

Not sure what role we had in mind for McHenry, in foresight. I can understand if we wanted to play and develop him up the ground, but I reckon we saw Richmond’s small brigade and thought ‘oh we need some pressure players’, without taking into account the bigger picture

Exactly right

Hard to apply pressure without speed

If you’re a bit slower you have to be very crafty and skilled to be a good player like a ginnivan

 

[Jeffcrowe]

If only we’d drafted my guy Butters

Haha I wish you were our national recruiting manager

 

[ABAB]

Yep, we're playing the same old players... which is why Smith has spent the last month playing in the SANFL, and Laird has barely seen a centre bounce in the same period.

The issue is Nicks took too long when it was so obvious even Big Footy posters knew it months ago. Better late than never I guess but what if he resort to the same next year.......

 

[Danger in Texas]

Exactly right

Hard to apply pressure without speed

If you’re a bit slower you have to be very crafty and skilled to be a good player like a ginnivan

Rachele’s actually a good example of the crafty/skilled type. Not the quickest, but makes up for it with his skill and finishing, and ability to get a bit more of the ball (which Ginnivan has also added to his game this year)

Good small forwards usually need to have that good athletic base though, that’s why I think guys like Alger and Unwin are very draftable. Your guy Angove like that, too?

 

[Mutineer]

If only we’d drafted my guy Butters

So you thought he'd become one of the best midfielders in the game when he was considered a front half gun and certainly not a full time mid? I don't recall him playing much midfield at the Nationals both as an underager or a top ager? Played some midfield at the Western Jets but certainly not as an inside mid, more outside/wing/high half forward.

I doubt anyone saw him as the gun midfielder he's become or he wouldn't have gone late in the 1st round.

 

[Mutineer]

If you classify them as senior the only ones that have stepped up are Keays and Hinge

Still don’t classify fog as senior but he’s stepped up too

Couple of guys not drafted by Ogilvie

I just think the evidence against Ogilvie these days is damning , Rankine and Dawson our 2 A grade + or elite players ( also not drafted in )

It’s either Ogilvie or development but I think it’s likely the former more than the later

You don't think Matt Crouch has stepped up when they finally gave him his chance?

 

[Danger in Texas]

So you thought he'd become one of the best midfielders in the game when he was considered a front half gun and certainly not a full time mid? I don't recall him playing much midfield at the Nationals both as an underager or a top ager? Played some midfield at the Western Jets but certainly not as an inside mid, more outside/wing/high half forward.

I doubt anyone saw him as the gun midfielder he's become or he wouldn't have gone late in the 1st round.

You should remember he was my guy. Always had the prime athletic traits. Did I think he’d be THIS good? Probably not, but he absolutely should’ve been in consideration for our first pick

Though like I said, I suspect Jones is a victim of poor development more than anything else

 

[BRL121]

You should remember he was my guy. Always had the prime athletic traits. Did I think he’d be THIS good? Probably not, but he absolutely should’ve been in consideration for our first pick

Though like I said, I suspect Jones is a victim of poor development more than anything else

I seem to recall that a few posters here wanted us to pick him at the time. You were one of those?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is in the Age this morning - inside the Hawthorn "war room" stuff. Some telling philosophies that Crows may follow, or not!! Also note that we had the average youngest team on the field this year(24.1) & lowest number of average games per player(71).

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...hawthorn-s-stunning-rise-20240823-p5k4qm.html

Compare Mitchell who started the rebuild to Nicks.

That tells you all you need to know how much having a coach who knows what they are doing makes a difference.

Nicks is still on his learner plates after 5 years making new & repeat mistakes... which won't change in the future, because he really isn't up to it.

The fact our club management don't realise means they need a clean out too as incapable of making good key decisions.

 

[Mutineer]

You should remember he was my guy. Always had the prime athletic traits. Did I think he’d be THIS good? Probably not, but he absolutely should’ve been in consideration for our first pick

Though like I said, I suspect Jones is a victim of poor development more than anything else

You saw Butters as the dominant mid he's turned out to be?, c'mon you'd be the only one, most thought of him as a small forward/high half forward maybe a wingman but a dominant mid I doubt anybody saw that outcome. Has off to Powa if they did.

 

[Danger in Texas]

You saw Butters as the dominant mid he's turned out to be?, c'mon you'd be the only one, most thought of him as a small forward/high half forward maybe a wingman but a dominant mid I doubt anybody saw that outcome. Has off to Powa if they did.

I said ‘probably not’ in my post mate but he clearly at least had the traits to be a high impact player (whatever the role), in my view

 

[1990crow]

You saw Butters as the dominant mid he's turned out to be?, c'mon you'd be the only one, most thought of him as a small forward/high half forward maybe a wingman but a dominant mid I doubt anybody saw that outcome. Has off to Powa if they did.

I think the club thought Butters would slip to the McHenry pick. Was reported we liked him.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I seem to recall that a few posters here wanted us to pick him at the time. You were one of those?

Was very high on him. Though I did think he’d last to our second pick, and the Crows probably thought that, too