List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Ham]

Pretty much summed up how I've posted a number of times over the years and pretty much like AFL Draft Central's Draft summary. Seen here playing for the Murray Bushrangers against the then Ballarat Rebels

#2​

Jordon Butts​

Height: 197cm
Weight: 80kg
D.O.B: 31-12-1999
DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Jordon Butts is the baby of the 2017 draft crop. He is a great mark, versatile and can run all day"
Leagues: AFL U18 Championships, Coates Talent League Boys
STRENGTHS: Marking, versatility, accumulation, spread, scope
IMPROVEMENTS: Strength, defensive pressure
A year ago, Jordon Butts was one of a number of players in line to be a late/rookie selection and 12 months on it appears he is in the same position, having unluckily missed out last year. He was born on the last day of the eligible year in his top-age year, so recruiters saw he still had plenty of upside. In 2018, Butts extended his capabilities to not only being able to play up either end, but on a wing as well. He played a mixture of key position forward, key position back and through the midfield to become a "Mr Fix It" for clubs keen to mould the big man into the player they are looking for. He could still improve his strength, and his defensive pressure, but his ability to spread, take a truckload of marks and then just find the ball is very admirable for a player of his size. Butts should be seen as a long-term prospect, because even 12 months on he has made developments, and with some VFL experience under his belt, could be more prepared to land on a list.

Jeez, youre right. Just watched his draft video below. Great recruit, what have we done? The OG Dan Curtin

Draft prospect: Jordan Butts

Watch highlights of 2018 draft prospect Jordan Butts in action

www.afl.com.au

 

[spenze]

Petty is not worth a second rounder and shouldn't be one of our targets.

I reckon the Petty thing was an impulse reaction to missing the FA target we wanted and then trying to turn losing a first 18 player into a win. If it'd come off and cost us a first rounder, happy days, the club wheeled and sealed.

After the trade session ended, our appetite there reduced significantly

 

[El Doederino]

I reckon the Petty thing was an impulse reaction to missing the FA target we wanted and then trying to turn losing a first 18 player into a win. If it'd come off and cost us a first rounder, happy days, the club wheeled and sealed.

After the trade session ended, our appetite there reduced significantly

The club thinks it already has its premiership list with its premiership coach.

That’s why this year we’ve been so vocal about getting a big fish in, and last year we were happy to trade out 2 first rounders for Petty. Also shows why 2 of our 3 first rounders from last year won’t get a game this year and probably next as well. We didn’t really want them.

 

[spenze]

They'll still be limited to how many players they can take from any individual team surely?

Any Victorian team, yes that will be limited

 

[George Kramer]

We are not bringing in any quality, why would a decent player want to come here unless we are paying a ridiculous amount of money?

As for what we offered up last year for Petty, that shows how desperate we are

 

[CDC60]

We've 13 first round draft picks on the list now if we count Dawson and Rankine who cost first rounders;

Smith
Thilthorpe
Milera
Jones
McHenry
Cook
Curtin
Rachele
Pedlar
Michalanney
Fogarty

We also have eight second round picks on the list so that's almost a full team.

It's not how many first or second rounders you have but who and on our record another Pick 6 and Pick 24 isn't going to transform our fortunes?

 

[AFC979810]

Did hill play against nobody in his other games ?

Obviously not. But why are people celebrating a defender who lets his opponent have his usual impact whilst offering nothing offensively?

He is a poor mans Chayce Jones. Which is most certainly saying something.

We should be playing Hammil across half back instead of Smith as Hammil was actually in good form against Collingwood.

Good form in what sense?

Smith is definitely having an absolutely shocking year this year and deserves to be dropped.

But Smith is in the side as a rebounding HBF - his position in the side is to provide drive off of half back.

Hamill was in good form against Collingwood? Look if you want to have Hamill in the side as a lock down defender then thats one position, but we need to replace Smith with a rebounding defender.

Hamill's last 11 games have yielded 1,241 meters gained. Smith had over 1,000 in a single game in 2022.

We also need to think carefully about what is going to happen with our backline when Murray returns. He clearly is one of our key players and performed brilliantly when he returned to play on the weekend. If he plays at CHB and Keane is at FB why not keep a well performed Borlase in the Back pocket rather than Butts who is a solid player but kills out rebound game with slow play and long kicks down the line because his short kicks are notoriously unreliable. Josh Worrell when he returns could play forward, on the wing or at half back. A back line with these players and Milera, Hinge, Ryan and Max would be one of the better ones in the league.

Keep Borlase? Borlase was absolutely destroyed by an 80 year old Gunston in the first quarter. Nicks then moved him around the rest of the game where he became our leading intercept defender. The issue is that he provided as much run and drive as Butts. He had 16 disposals (9 kicks) and had 90 meters gained.

With Murray returning our ideal back 6 for 2025 is Murray, Keane, Worrell, Max, Hinge, XXX. XXX should be Smiths replacement. Butts/Borlase should be KPD depth. Worrell 3rd tall. Max gets most dangerous small. Hinge and XXX to be rebounding defenders. I don't think we can rely on Milera coming back - last time he had this injury it took him 2 and a half years to return to any type of form (and he wasn't as good as pre injury Milera).

IMO we have two big decisions for 2025.

1. How we replace Smith with a rebounding defender. In truth this is a relatively easy position to fill comparative to other spots.

2. What to do with Curtin. I don't know how best to utilize him and the sad thing is that neither does Nicks / our SANFL team.

 

[AFC979810]

We are not bringing in any quality, why would a decent player want to come here unless we are paying a ridiculous amount of money?

We will have a top 6 pick. So no doubt Hamish will be eying off another Key Defender there.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Obviously not. But why are people celebrating a defender who lets his opponent have his usual impact whilst offering nothing offensively?

He is a poor mans Chayce Jones. Which is most certainly saying something.



Good form in what sense?

Smith is definitely having an absolutely shocking year this year and deserves to be dropped.

But Smith is in the side as a rebounding HBF - his position in the side is to provide drive off of half back.

Hamill was in good form against Collingwood? Look if you want to have Hamill in the side as a lock down defender then thats one position, but we need to replace Smith with a rebounding defender.

Hamill's last 11 games have yielded 1,241 meters gained. Smith had over 1,000 in a single game in 2022.



Keep Borlase? Borlase was absolutely destroyed by an 80 year old Gunston in the first quarter. Nicks then moved him around the rest of the game where he became our leading intercept defender. The issue is that he provided as much run and drive as Butts. He had 16 disposals (9 kicks) and had 90 meters gained.

With Murray returning our ideal back 6 for 2025 is Murray, Keane, Worrell, Max, Hinge, XXX. XXX should be Smiths replacement. Butts/Borlase should be KPD depth. Worrell 3rd tall. Max gets most dangerous small. Hinge and XXX to be rebounding defenders. I don't think we can rely on Milera coming back - last time he had this injury it took him 2 and a half years to return to any type of form (and he wasn't as good as pre injury Milera).

IMO we have two big decisions for 2025.

1. How we replace Smith with a rebounding defender. In truth this is a relatively easy position to fill comparative to other spots.

2. What to do with Curtin. I don't know how best to utilize him and the sad thing is that neither does Nicks / our SANFL team.

1. Perryman / Cummings. Not that easy, these types of players are in very high demand league wide, and are usually in their teams' best 3-5 players. Our terrible depth in this area is one of the reasons we suck this year
2. Not as a KPD, intercepting/rebounding defender is my vote as he shows some form in that space. Plus if he wants to be a midfielder, this would build him towards that

 

[CromradeCromulent]

We've 13 first round draft picks on the list now if we count Dawson and Rankine who cost first rounders;

Smith
Thilthorpe
Milera
Jones
McHenry
Cook
Curtin
Rachele
Pedlar
Michalanney
Fogarty

If you're going to count Cook at pick 25 then why leave out Ryan and Edwards? They were technically first rounders too.

 

[mr.sheen]

We've 13 first round draft picks on the list now if we count Dawson and Rankine who cost first rounders;

Smith
Thilthorpe
Milera
Jones
McHenry
Cook
Curtin
Rachele
Pedlar
Michalanney
Fogarty

We also have eight second round picks on the list so that's almost a full team.

It's not how many first or second rounders you have but who and on our record another Pick 6 and Pick 24 isn't going to transform our fortunes?

Wow. This is not an inspiring list of first rounders.

 

[maxlilly]

Won’t be elite for long after arrival

Hi Jonny, My name is Mr Godden, I'll be your coach for the next couple of years

 

[AFC979810]

1. Perryman / Cummings. Not that easy, these types of players are in very high demand league wide, and are usually in their teams' best 3-5 players. Our terrible depth in this area is one of the reasons we suck this year

Disagree that they are hard to find. Rebounding HBF are like ruck man - you can get a serviceable one cheap.

2023 All Australians - Dan Houston (pick 50+) and Jack Sinclaire (rookie draft).

Players like Karl Amon, Alex Sexton, Luke Ryan are more than serviceable and came cheaply.

Even looking at our own club - We got Hinge as a delisted free agent.

 

[Glenny83]

Will Hayward

9

Will Hayward

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

9.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

re-signed with Sydney for five years.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Will Hayward re-signed with Sydney for five years.

Been coming for a couple of weeks now

We’re definitely striking out, again

 

[Glenny83]

Been coming for a couple of weeks now

We’re definitely striking out, again

We're looking like a bad option for players to come to these days.

 

[CromradeCromulent]

Will Hayward re-signed with Sydney for five years.

Uh... Reid... we missed Hayward!

we're not aiming for Hayward!

 

[walterhobbs]

We're looking like a bad option for players to come to these days.

Cant believe nobody want to come play for Nicks!

 

[Mutineer]

Been coming for a couple of weeks now

We’re definitely striking out, again

Influencers have influence hey....

 

[1990crow]

We're looking like a bad option for players to come to these days.

Looking like a bad option for good players to stay too.

 

[Coopers]

All but six - Dawson, Rankine, Max, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Fogarty (just) - should be on the trade table.
Depressingly - apart from Rachele, Worrell, Curtin, perhaps Pedlar and N Murray - who would get a nibble of genuine interest from other clubs?

Plenty of other players would get interest from other clubs.
Looking at the 22 from last week, I reckon just Smith, Murph, Hamill, Borlase (although he did do really well this time, so keep it up buddy) we'd struggle to send off.

Everyone else has some value, even if it's just a packet of chips. Don't think we'd get much for Sholl, McHenry, Berry, Schoenberg, but we'd get... something. Hinge, Jones, Keane, Cook... all worth a bit more.

 

[Redline]

What’s everyone going to do when Dowling comes in and the honeymoon of having a new player is replaced with the realisation he isn’t the player we are in desperate need of?

Not saying that is a definite reality. But, given his deficiencies with disposal, it’s likely.

My point being, the answers aren’t going to come from what we have. But rather what we don’t have yet.

Our future midfield (bar Soligo) isn’t even at the club yet, is my guess. It’s a long, long road. I hope we are all ready for it.

It's a fair point. Dowling was pick 43 so our expectations shouldn't be over the top.

 

[GameofSloanes]

It's a fair point. Dowling was pick 43 so our expectations shouldn't be over the top.

If there's one thing I don't have at the moment it's expectations

 

[Redline]

I reckon the Petty thing was an impulse reaction to missing the FA target we wanted and then trying to turn losing a first 18 player into a win. If it'd come off and cost us a first rounder, happy days, the club wheeled and sealed.

After the trade session ended, our appetite there reduced significantly

I agree,

I also think there was a view of being able to front load his contract while we had the money rather than waiting for free agency.

It was only ever really reported what we were offering. There may have been something else coming back to us along with Petty.

 

[Trigger13]

I reckon the Petty thing was an impulse reaction to missing the FA target we wanted and then trying to turn losing a first 18 player into a win. If it'd come off and cost us a first rounder, happy days, the club wheeled and sealed.

After the trade session ended, our appetite there reduced significantly

And good clubs don’t act on impulse. Sydney, for instance, would never do this. AFC is run by morons with zero accountability.