List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[jackster83]

6 years at the Dogs....delisted.
3 years at the Kangaroos....delisted
2 years at St.Kilda ....delisted

*edit 3 years at the Saints didn't play an AFL game in 2023

Life as a 200cm depth player must be great. Get paid good money to do **** all.

 

[Mutineer]

Surely he has finally at the end of his AFL career.

From the same Football League as Keiran Strachan the Bendigo Football Netball League.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Life as a 200cm depth player must be great. Get paid good money to do **** all.

58 games in 11 years... ie. Plays around 25% of games.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Yes... if Borlase & Keane were to be upgraded. It would also reduce the number of senior list positions available by 2. There is no evidence to suggest that either Borlase or Keane will be upgraded this year.

I mean upgrading just one of them to tick that third national draft requirement.

If McHenry, Himmelberg & Gollant are all delisted, with Sloane retired, then that makes 4 senior list vacancies. If we upgrade Borlase or Keane, it's 3; upgrade both, and we're down to 2.


... and that's before we start bringing in players via trade & free agency (e.g. ANB/Luko/Cumming).

The maths just doesn't add up. There's pretty much no way of bringing in external players AND upgrading the rookies.

If we delist Parnell, Hamill and move Keane/Borlase to the seniors that’s three rookie vacancies. Toby Murray occupies one of these spots. So suppose Schoenberg and Burgess are also dropped to the rookie list.

That gives us Sloane (remembering Turray occupies a vacant rookie spot), McHenry, Gollant, Himmelberg, Schoenberg, and Burgess’ senior spots and six senior vacancies. Keane/Borlase occupies one of these spots. Allows us two national draft picks (the rookie elevation being the third) and three recruits.

We could alternatively not upgrade Keane/Borlase if we prefer a third draftee to a third recruit. However, recruiting all of ANB, Cumming and Lukosius is possible.

 

[Vader]

I mean upgrading just one of them to tick that third national draft requirement.

If we delist Parnell, Hamill and move Keane/Borlase to the seniors that’s three rookie vacancies. Toby Murray occupies one of these spots. So suppose Schoenberg and Burgess are also dropped to the rookie list.

That gives us Sloane (remembering Turray occupies a vacant rookie spot), McHenry, Gollant, Himmelberg, Schoenberg, and Burgess’ senior spots and six senior vacancies. Keane/Borlase occupies one of these spots. Allows us two national draft picks (the rookie elevation being the third) and three recruits.

We could alternatively not upgrade Keane/Borlase if we prefer a third draftee to a third recruit. However, recruiting all of ANB, Cumming and Lukosius is possible.

I get your list mathematics, but why? The alternatives are 2x draftees + an upgraded Keane/Borlase, or 3x draftees? I'll take 3x draftees every day of the week, particularly given the distinct lack of urgency in upgrading them.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

I get your list mathematics, but why? The alternatives are 2x draftees + an upgraded Keane/Borlase, or 3x draftees? I'll take 3x draftees every day of the week, particularly given the distinct lack of urgency in upgrading them.

It’s more about if we are actually capable of recruiting all of Cumming, ANB and Lukosius with our current list. Depends how much we give up, but I reckon our list is at a point now where I’d prefer the three recruits to two recruits and an extra draftee.

 

[DJ75]

It’s more about if we are actually capable of recruiting all of Cumming, ANB and Lukosius with our current list. Depends how much we give up, but I reckon our list is at a point now where I’d prefer the three recruits to two recruits and an extra draftee.

We think we have all the elite young talent we need and just need to top up with some more experience.
I strongly disagree.

 

[Danger in Texas]

We think we have all the elite young talent we need and just need to top up with some more experience.
I strongly disagree.

Ehh, we have the young talent I think (especially if we use pick 4 well), we just need to develop it. I hope that rumour of Bello leaving is true, given how poorly the development of a number of our 2018-20 draftees has gone

 

[Hell Boy6669]

Ok now i am convinced reid is incompetent

how can you sign borlase. seriously

"edit
surely strachan and smith delisted then

burgess also unsigned. there is zero evidence he has a contract post this year.

I know for a fact, Burgess has a contract next year so it’s very unlikely we delist and pay him out.

 

[Carmo]

I know for a fact, Burgess has a contract next year so it’s very unlikely we delist and pay him out.

I reckon the plan is if luko doesn't join us, we offer himmelberg a decent contract, if he elects to go then we can't stop him and we retain Burgess as our depth tall forward. If luko joins we don't offer contract to Berg and cut and payout Burgess, if luko doesn't join, Berg accepts contract we cut Burgess. Something along those lines.

 

[crow2crow]

I reckon the plan is if luko doesn't join us, we offer himmelberg a decent contract, if he elects to go then we can't stop him and we retain Burgess as our depth tall forward. If luko joins we don't offer contract to Berg and cut and payout Burgess, if luko doesn't join, Berg accepts contract we cut Burgess. Something along those lines.

cant see burgess being kept under any circumstances
right now we are probably trying to find him another home to get back the list spot

 

[Carmo]

I reckon the plan is if luko doesn't join us, we offer himmelberg a decent contract, if he elects to go then we can't stop him and we retain Burgess as our depth tall forward. If luko joins we don't offer contract to Berg and cut and payout Burgess, if luko doesn't join, Berg accepts contract we cut Burgess. Something along those lines.

Actually FWIW, I think we might have a similar setup re cumming and Hamill. If we don't get cumming Hamill will be retained.

These suggest that the club doesn't consider Luko or Cumming to be done deals. Far from it.

 

[Crows I Am]

With the recent resignings, I'd love to know what our list management strategy actually is.

Seems like our list strategy is to just sign everyone who wants to stay.

We just finished in the bottom 4 and it's looking likely we will only bring in 3 new players. Pretty depressing if that's the end result.

 

[Crow till I die]

Seems like our list strategy is to just sign everyone who wants to stay.

We just finished in the bottom 4 and it's looking likely we will only bring in 3 new players. Pretty depressing if that's the end result.

We are the modern day Carthage, back all our existing citizens in...not good enough when the romans came knocking

 

[craig crowing]

I guess I might get challenged on my views of re signing of Borlase and Bond as apart from leaving so few spots I believe it just shows howe average we want to be as a club .
Although both players work hard, both players are very limited in AFL skills and offer very little going forward.
Also realising Bond done ok as a stopper but although running with key player still unable to get possessions and having another average player around mid that offers no hurt along Crouch , Laird etc doesn't get me too excited .

 

[Crows I Am]

We are the modern day Carthage, back all our existing citizens in...not good enough when the romans came knocking

Back the boys in, back the coaches in, back the administration in...

 

[Mutineer]

I guess I might get challenged on my views of re signing of Borlase and Bond as apart from leaving so few spots I believe it just shows howe average we want to be as a club .
Although both players work hard, both players are very limited in AFL skills and offer very little going forward.
Also realising Bond done ok as a stopper but although running with key player still unable to get possessions and having another average player around mid that offers no hurt along Crouch , Laird etc doesn't get me too excited .

Crouch rates pretty high amongst midfielders in score involvements only a bees dick behind Dangerfield at 6.23 a game on average, that would suggest he has hurt factor, easily the Crows most prolific in that regard.

 

[rabidcrow]

I'd be interested to see how many clubs keep purely "depth" players on their list for similar similar periods to us to us like Ben Davis and Elliot Himmelberg.?

It is weird how long we hang on to certain players.
I sort of get it through the main part of our rebuild to keep a core group together. Very disappointed that we are coming in to this trade/draft period with such a tight list again. And that what I would regard as a couple of our better depth players are going and instead we will keep a few blokes that should be gone.

I also think you need 4 Key position players in your squad forward and back. Gives you development guys some structure in the Sanfl plus depth for injuries. It’s only 8 out of 42 spots


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[DJ75]

Would it be crazy to speak to teams lacking KPD like the Bulldogs and suggest that Butts might be a good fit?

 

[rabidcrow]

I guess I might get challenged on my views of re signing of Borlase and Bond as apart from leaving so few spots I believe it just shows howe average we want to be as a club .
Although both players work hard, both players are very limited in AFL skills and offer very little going forward.
Also realising Bond done ok as a stopper but although running with key player still unable to get possessions and having another average player around mid that offers no hurt along Crouch , Laird etc doesn't get me too excited .

As have been saying for a long time - we recruited Bond as a Luke Brown replacement. Yea he had a run with Merrett at one point but they see him predominately as a back pocket.
Also - a handful of games in - possessions will come with experience.


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[Mutineer]

It is weird how long we hang on to certain players.
I sort of get it through the main part of our rebuild to keep a core group together. Very disappointed that we are coming in to this trade/draft period with such a tight list again. And that what I would regard as a couple of our better depth players are going and instead we will keep a few blokes that should be gone.

I also think you need 4 Key position players in your squad forward and back. Gives you development guys some structure in the Sanfl plus depth for injuries. It’s only 8 out of 42 spots


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Borlase is never going to be anything other than back up and when all are fit he's not getting a look in hence he's really not putting pressure on the incumbents whereas a draftee like say James Barrat or Clancy Dennis whilst not immediately are every chance to be best 22 soon enough. We need to turn our list over far more aggressively if we want the ultimate prize.

 

[rabidcrow]

Surely we are all starting to believe Luko goes to Port? Dixon gone, Marshall massive question marks re concussion

And here we are trying to squeeze him in on a wing

Port will be throwing the kitchen sink to get him surely


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[crow2crow]

Crouch rates pretty high amongst midfielders in score involvements only a bees dick behind Dangerfield at 6.23 a game on average, that would suggest he has hurt factor, easily the Crows most prolific in that regard.

I think he is bundling laird and crouch as the same which isnt fair.
I would be shocked if laird can have impact on the ball again. I agree so much on the borlase bond bit though.

Surely we are all starting to believe Luko goes to Port? Dixon gone, Marshall massive question marks re concussion

And here we are trying to squeeze him in on a wing

Port will be throwing the kitchen sink to get him surely


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they need him more yes

but they cant get the deal done unless one of their A graders leaves

 

[1970crow]

Ok now i am convinced reid is incompetent

how can you sign borlase. seriously

"edit
surely strachan and smith delisted then

burgess also unsigned. there is zero evidence he has a contract post this year.

You seriously reckon that we have a list management committee that includes Roo, Kelly &Nix and JR just decides all by himself that we should extend Borlase by 2 years?

 

[1970crow]

If we move one player from the senior to rookie list, we will have spots for:

Neal-Bullen, Pick 4, Cumming, Lukosius, Welsh

But nothing else

Won't we have to take another draft pick or upgrade another rookie?