Analysis 2024 National Draft

Who should Carlton take at Pick 3 if available?

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WalshistheGOAT said:
Yeah... when ur talking a top 3 pick we're not picking the best athlete, we're picking a gun footballer who also happens to match what we lack athletically.

You're an intelligent poster Arr0w, to suggest we'd be doing otherwise by not taking Langford is silly.

Smillie has performed almost just as well as Langford this year, but he doesn't cop a mention in here for good reason. Adding another 190+ slow midfielder to our mix would be utterly ludicrous.
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Whilst it is highly likely we will be take one of Smith/Draper or Fos, quite a number of us have a more balanced view rather than speed/athletic skills being the sole criteria.

Langford is behind those mentioned in the 1st five metres for leg speed, but if you analyse what he brings, is a elite ball user strong over head and a very good endurance runner most likely will be very capable of playing mid/half forward, Lalor is the only one capable of the same, Fos had a average 24 season and will be picked on 23 form, so some risk there.

Langford is significantly in front of Smillie, whilst we most likely won't get Langford l am expecting him to be top 3 from this draft in 3 years time.
 
ray8182 said:
This is a poor question to ask. A sort of false one. Prior to the draft you don’t know that the slowish midfielder you like is going to be the quality of a Bontempelli. You don’t have that guarantee. Using this sort of hindsight question is pointless.

Langford is a little on the slow side but has excellent endurance which helps. He has a lot of great qualities which revolve around him having possession of the ball. With Carlton’s slowness and resulting poor defence around stoppage is he going to help when we DONT have the ball. Who is going to stop the opposition when they get hands to the ball first.

Carlton needs a quality midfielder who has also has the ability to apply pressure when we don’t have the ball. Langfords represents a risk of being unable to do that.


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It’s not a poor question if you understand the point I am making. Bont’s profile is very similar to Langford at the same age. Similar pace and style.

That’s exactly what you do when you profile a draftee, project the best and worst case scenario and align that to current and past players for illustrative purposes.

In regards to defensive midfielder, I am of the view all AFL players require a defensive mindset which is reinforced through game plan , positioning , structure, intent etc. I really don’t get your point ? It is generally overly offensive players that are the concern


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macky99 said:
Langford is behind those mentioned in the 1st five metres for leg speed, but if you analyse what he brings, is a elite ball user strong over head and a very good endurance runner most likely will be very capable of playing mid/half forward, Lalor is the only one capable of the same, Fos had a average 24 season and will be picked on 23 form, so some risk there.

Langford is significantly in front of Smillie, whilst we most likely won't get Langford l am expecting him to be top 3 from this draft in 3 years time.
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You've just described Elijah Hollands... Who whilst an awesome addition to our team this year, is not the answer to what we're missing currently in our midfield.

Our list teams put in writing what they think we're missing - A fast, hard running, explosive midfielder.

We didn't trade up practically all our draft capital and pass on one of the best ball users in the league in Houston to take a player that doesn't fit that criteria at all and we already have similar on our list but he's a good ball user so it's all fine.

Logically makes absolutely 0 sense.
 
macky99 said:
Whilst it is highly likely we will be take one of Smith/Draper or Fos, quite a number of us have a more balanced view rather than speed/athletic skills being the sole criteria.

Langford is behind those mentioned in the 1st five metres for leg speed, but if you analyse what he brings, is a elite ball user strong over head and a very good endurance runner most likely will be very capable of playing mid/half forward, Lalor is the only one capable of the same, Fos had a average 24 season and will be picked on 23 form, so some risk there.

Langford is significantly in front of Smillie, whilst we most likely won't get Langford l am expecting him to be top 3 from this draft in 3 years time.
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Exactly. It's that simple. He also reads the play better than the other 5. Doesn't rely on athleticism to make up for poor positioning which is an issue Carlton fans should be aware of considering our draft history.
 
Arr0w said:
Langford isn't quick over 20, but once in stride, most players don't get a hold of him and his evasiveness certainly helps in this area

Exceptional hands, vision, disposal, beast overhead and safe shot at goal

What's more impressive, he is already mature beyond his years, knowing his strengths / limitations and working well within his lane

Really is a Dawson clone, what's not to like about this kid
Click to expand...

Don’t like the name…
 
tragic said:
The media pretty much always seem to know who we are looking at drafting so i dont think it will be a surprise leading up to and including draft night
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Yeah. Reality is we’ll be 95% certain who we’re drafting when Cal drops his final phantom draft.

His sources, intel with recruiters, list managers & player managers is second to none in the draft space.

He rarely misses.
 

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When Austin made those comments about pace and run we didn't have pick 3. I think at that pick he goes best available. They all add something in different ways. What we ultimately need is the best possible player. So I have no issue if we draft Langford.

That said, it sounds like it's a marginal decision in which case player type and what fits our needs best probably comes back into it.
 
Crippa#9 said:
Or Draper
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I love his pressure ability as a mid and his athleticism is absolutely top shelf. Seems a future captain and great kid as well

My concern for him is his kicking. We are already weak in that category. I love the kid tho. If the club think they can make his kicking competent (like Cripps did) then I’d absolutely say pick him.

FOS Jagga Draper all great options though. All will be better than Cerra in time imo, and if Cerra is your 4th or 5th best mid, jeez you’re doing well
 
macky99 said:
Whilst it is highly likely we will be take one of Smith/Draper or Fos, quite a number of us have a more balanced view rather than speed/athletic skills being the sole criteria.

Langford is behind those mentioned in the 1st five metres for leg speed, but if you analyse what he brings, is a elite ball user strong over head and a very good endurance runner most likely will be very capable of playing mid/half forward, Lalor is the only one capable of the same, Fos had a average 24 season and will be picked on 23 form, so some risk there.

Langford is significantly in front of Smillie, whilst we most likely won't get Langford l am expecting him to be top 3 from this draft in 3 years time.
Click to expand...
FOS literally played 80% HF and 20% mid in his VFL game. And even though he only had 12 touches, 6 were score involvements and he kicked 2.1 (should’ve been 3.0). To suggest he isn’t capable of playing that position is just wrong.

Draper and Smith both have traits that would allow them to be successful small forwards but have played almost exclusively midfield this year.

All of Langford/Lalor/FOS are mids who can play forward/hit the scoreboard.
 
BlackGoanna said:
It’s not a poor question if you understand the point I am making. Bont’s profile is very similar to Langford at the same age. Similar pace and style.

That’s exactly what you do when you profile a draftee, project the best and worst case scenario and align that to current and past players for illustrative purposes.

In regards to defensive midfielder, I am of all AFL players require a defensive mindset which is reinforced through game plan , positioning , intent etc. I really don’t get your point ? It is generally overly offensive players that are the concern


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Click to expand...

I guess lm trying to say that foot speed around stoppages is a factor. I don’t disagree with the other points you made re positioning mindset etc but the athletic component does matter. The midfielder we take doesn’t need to be super quick but does need to be much better than the likes of Cripps, hewett and Kennedy.

We currently have an all time great midfielder in the centre in Cripps but yet we get flogged out of the centre at times. I believe this is partly because stoppages have become less congested and slowish midfielders are struggling to defend the extra space. If they don’t get hands to ball first they’re unable to chase effectively, apply pressure and win the ball back.


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I think if I had to characterize how I see the current top 5 by ceiling and floor

Sam Lalor

Ceiling - Jordan De Goey

Floor - Mitch Robinson

Finn O'Sullivan

Ceiling - Patrick Dangerfield

Floor - Gary Rohan

Jagga Smith

Ceiling - Errol Gulden

Floor - Caleb Daniel

Sid Draper

Ceiling - Adam Treloar

Floor - Paddy Dow

Harvey Langford

Ceiling - Patrick Cripps

Floor - Will Brodie

In terms of style and impact

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WalshistheGOAT said:
You've just described Elijah Hollands... Who whilst an awesome addition to our team this year, is not the answer to what we're missing currently in our midfield.

Our list teams put in writing what they think we're missing - A fast, hard running, explosive midfielder.

We didn't trade up practically all our draft capital and pass on one of the best ball users in the league in Houston to take a player that doesn't fit that criteria at all and we already have similar on our list but he's a good ball user so it's all fine.

Logically makes absolutely 0 sense.
Click to expand...
Player recruitment is such a subjective topic, probably best we revisit in 3 years time, Langford will be a significantly better player than both Kennedy & Elijah the names you have put up as a comparison, if this was any other year and our mid field did not lack some speed, Langford is in front of the others, so it is more about need than selecting the most all round talented player.
 
ray8182 said:
I guess lm trying to say that foot speed around stoppages is a factor. I don’t disagree with the other points you made re positioning mindset etc but the athletic component does matter. The midfielder we take doesn’t need to be super quick but does need to be much better than the likes of Cripps, hewett and Kennedy.

We currently have an all time great midfielder in the centre in Cripps but yet we get flogged out of the centre at times. I believe this is partly because stoppages have become less congested and slowish midfielders are struggling to defend the extra space. If they don’t get hands to ball first they’re unable to chase effectively, apply pressure and win the ball back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
TDK missing for a crucial period late in the season & Walsh and Cerra well below their best was also a key factor.
 
Juice030103 said:
I love his pressure ability as a mid and his athleticism is absolutely top shelf. Seems a future captain and great kid as well

My concern for him is his kicking. We are already weak in that category. I love the kid tho. If the club think they can make his kicking competent (like Cripps did) then I’d absolutely say pick him.

FOS Jagga Draper all great options though. All will be better than Cerra in time imo, and if Cerra is your 4th or 5th best mid, jeez you’re doing well
Click to expand...
The concern is, how long has it taken Cripps to improve his kicking to a not great but satisfactory level?
It's not a technique thing more what's going on in your brain, it's created in your formative years.
When your young if you lack pace you have to improvise, create and outsmart (high footy IQ), while the ones with speed just used pace to get by.
The trick is to get a player that has both, they are the best chance to become a 400-game player which you'd think, would be the aspirations of any LM and team.
 
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