List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread - Part II

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

He's very slow now and genuinely borderline 1's player at Geelong. Would have been perfect two years ago.

We're not going to get the elite players coming to us.

Duncan would be excellent. Winner and good character.

 

[Passmore]

He's very slow now and genuinely borderline 1's player at Geelong. Would have been perfect two years ago.

Right now, that is space we’re playing in if we want experience.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

Do you want Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.0

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

?

 

[Harris 10]

He's very slow now and genuinely borderline 1's player at Geelong. Would have been perfect two years ago.

He’s averaging 20 in a top 4 team, hard to see how he would fit into the 17th team.

 

[DocSholl]

Do you want Rory Laird?

Not if we're getting Rachele

 

[The Nostradamus]

Where is Mitch Duncan at? I know he’s talked of moving into coaching when he finishes up.
Could we offer him some playing time over next couple of years and coaching pathway as part of the deal.

He’d have 1 year max left

 

[Harris 10]

He’d have 1 year max left

That might be enough for what we need

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

He’s averaging 20 in a top 4 team, hard to see how he would fit into the 17th team.

Who got flogged by 120 points two games in a row to finish the season.

 

[King Corey]

It's infuriating to talk of restoring a senior bracket of players now. Brady & Co should be lynched for their decision making 2019-21.

I maintain my stance we should've retained Higgins, Brown and given Tarrant a fair deal back then.

You then have senior presence amd leadership on-ball, forward and defence. You'll still get your draft picks and work your new players into something of a system. The odd win then builds confidence.

And the return we got for those decisions?

Jaidyn Stephenson

2

Jaidyn Stephenson

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

and Charlie Lazarro. No disrespect to Charlie but neither moved the needle for us.

This is not revisionism. Said it at the time but the list managers felt shredding our experience and KPP depth from 2018+ was somehow going to roll into a magical blossoming a couple of years later.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Stevenson highly unlikely to be at nmfc next year, one way or another

There is mutual interest in dissolving this relationship

Dissolving Sleevo and keeping Scott. There's hope yet after all!

 

[Sphynx]

It's infuriating to talk of restoring a senior bracket of players now. Brady & Co should be lynched for their decision making 2019-21.

I maintain my stance we should've retained Higgins, Brown and given Tarrant a fair deal back then.

You then have senior presence amd leadership on-ball, forward and defence. You'll still get your draft picks and work your new players into something of a system. The odd win then builds confidence.

And the return we got for those decisions?

Jaidyn Stephenson and Charlie Lazarro. No disrespect to Charlie but neither moved the needle for us.

This is not revisionism. Said it at the time but the list managers felt shredding our experience and KPP depth from 2018+ was somehow going to roll into a magical blossoming a couple of years later.

It's infuriating to talk about restoring and recruiting senior players, when we have more than enough on the list already who should be doing it.

This isn't 4-5 years ago.

Simpkin turns 27 in March.
McDonald turns 30 in Feb.

Both captains.

LDU turns 26 next year.

Zurhaar turns 27 next year.
Larkey turns 27 next year.


Seriously.....

All of these players were signed on long term, big money deals.


There's 5 of them, without even considering guys like Xerri, Logue, Corr etc.

Some of our top draftees are entering their 4th and 5th seasons.

Seriously, if we need "experienced" players to show example, the "senior experienced players" should be traded/or offered 30% pay reductions. Otherwise what are they there for?

 

[Shinboner1]

Seriously, if we need "experienced" players to show example, the "senior experienced players" should be traded/or offered 30% pay reductions. Otherwise what are they there for?

haha good luck

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

It's infuriating to talk of restoring a senior bracket of players now. Brady & Co should be lynched for their decision making 2019-21.

I maintain my stance we should've retained Higgins, Brown and given Tarrant a fair deal back then.

You then have senior presence amd leadership on-ball, forward and defence. You'll still get your draft picks and work your new players into something of a system. The odd win then builds confidence.

And the return we got for those decisions?

Jaidyn Stephenson and Charlie Lazarro. No disrespect to Charlie but neither moved the needle for us.

This is not revisionism. Said it at the time but the list managers felt shredding our experience and KPP depth from 2018+ was somehow going to roll into a magical blossoming a couple of years later.

Agreed. Add Dumont to that list. The flip side is that while we have been patently awful, we would not have Sheeze and or Wardlaw if we had kept them.

Is Sheeze (& George) worth the past (and future) pain?

 

[The Dingrel]

So many threads of doom, not sure where this post is best suited. I feel the angst, I feel the bitter disappointment. But yet again there is a simple answer as to why we haven't improved. It isn't al clarko, it isn't Viney, it isn't the Pres.

It is 100% recruiting. I think seasons 2017-2020 are distance enough memories to have a bit of a deep dive.

2017 - finished 15th. 7 draft picks 5 Nat 2 Rookie
Wins LDU pick 4. Xerri pick 72.
Rating 7/10.
Turned this draft around with the emergence of Xerri, you have every right to expect a pick 4 to be a very good footballer.

2018 - Finished 9th. 7 Draft Picks 5 Nat 2 Rookie
Wins Scott pick 49
3/10
Dogs balls an absolute bust

2019 - Finished 12th. 4 picks 3 Nat 1 Mid season.
Wins Comben.
3/10.
Lucky AF and a long way to go with Charlie. Fingers crossed aye.

2020 - Finished 17th. 7 Draft Picks 5 Nat 2 Rookie
Wins ZERO
Rating 2/10 Fingers crossed Powell/ Ford can build a solid career.

But I doubt we have one player on the list taken in the 2020 draft by season close 2026.

So 4 years of drafting with 25 picks and we to show for it.

1. LDU
2. Xerri
3.Comben
4.Scott

While some still hold out hope for Phillips, Powell and Ford. And fair enough as that's your right.

That is 100% failure on whoever made the calls during the 2017-2020 seasons.

I do though feel when we deep dive into seasons 2021- 2025 in a few years time it will be much more positive experience.
And will translate well and show why we've improved.

But for now

oh well.

Good points,,,,and debatable that you can include Scott in that as a F/S, not like our recruiters had to identify him as a target.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

It's infuriating to talk about restoring and recruiting senior players, when we have more than enough on the list already who should be doing it.

This isn't 4-5 years ago.

Simpkin turns 27 in March.
McDonald turns 30 in Feb.

Both captains.

LDU turns 26 next year.

Zurhaar turns 27 next year.
Larkey turns 27 next year.


Seriously.....

All of these players were signed on long term, big money deals.


There's 5 of them, without even considering guys like Xerri, Logue, Corr etc.

Some of our top draftees are entering their 4th and 5th seasons.

Seriously, if we need "experienced" players to show example, the "senior experienced players" should be traded/or offered 30% pay reductions. Otherwise what are they there for?

For how shit our senior and recruited players have played and for how little leadership they have afforded our young guns, their front loaded, inflated contracts should mean they are playing for free in their last 2-3 seasons.

The overpaying of mediocre players is part of the reason we are still in this quagmire. The fact that the bottom 4-5 teams still have to meet the 90% quota of the salary cap is a huge disadvantage.

 

[Sphynx]

For how shit our senior and recruited players have played and for how little leadership they have afforded our young guns, their front loaded, inflated contracts should mean they are playing for free in their last 2-3 seasons.

The overpaying of mediocre players is part of the reason we are still in this quagmire. The fact that the bottom 4-5 teams still have to meet the 90% quota of the salary cap is a huge disadvantage.

Probably part of the reason McDonald might get pushed to retirement.

If he's been virtually paid out 90% of his contract anyway, it wont be hard to find a settlement figure.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Probably part of the reason McDonald might get pushed to retirement.

If he's been virtually paid out 90% of his contract anyway, it wont be hard to find a settlement figure.

Simply has to happen. The sad thing is that it even Duck would have struggled to turn this sh*t show around.

The only option in front of us is to prune the deadwood leadership right back and allow the new branches to take the lead.

 

[King Corey]

Agreed. Add Dumont to that list. The flip side is that while we have been patently awful, we would not have Sheeze and or Wardlaw if we had kept them.

Is Sheeze (& George) worth the past (and future) pain?

As horrific as it sounds- probably not.

Sheezel is amazing but at good odds of squandering his talent in such as poorly run club.

Now selfishly I love him and applaud his loyalty. But winning 5+ games each year, drafting guys like Phillipou or Caddy and coaxing senior talent over for a proper sustained run might've trumped scorched earth & an A+ Harry Sheezel.

 

[Horace]

We should re-draft Cunners. Booted 10 at the weekend to win the Hampden League goal kicking.

 

[R00StaR]

We need a **** load of old players. I'd take 5 x 30+ year olds players. Even bring a Heppell type out of retirement. He's been an AA player at least.

Lets bust out the walking frames.

 

[Blightys Barrel]

Stevenson highly unlikely to be at nmfc next year, one way or another

There is mutual interest in dissolving this relationship

He should dust off the old BMX and aim for a spot on the Olympic’s team for the 2028 games.

 

[zoomba23]

Do you want Rory Laird?

 

[Cyber_punk]

Simply has to happen. The sad thing is that it even Duck would have struggled to turn this sh*t show around.

The only option in front of us is to prune the deadwood leadership right back and allow the new branches to take the lead.

Duck had that Kobe Bryant mentality though. We have maybe a couple of guys with it, the rest are losers who are happy to just be here.

 

[R00StaR]

It's infuriating to talk about restoring and recruiting senior players, when we have more than enough on the list already who should be doing it.

This isn't 4-5 years ago.

Simpkin turns 27 in March.
McDonald turns 30 in Feb.

Both captains.

LDU turns 26 next year.

Zurhaar turns 27 next year.
Larkey turns 27 next year.


Seriously.....

All of these players were signed on long term, big money deals.


There's 5 of them, without even considering guys like Xerri, Logue, Corr etc.

Some of our top draftees are entering their 4th and 5th seasons.

Seriously, if we need "experienced" players to show example, the "senior experienced players" should be traded/or offered 30% pay reductions. Otherwise what are they there for?

100% we dont need any more than we have. What we need is the next batch coming in to replace those older types while we have the likes of Sheez, Wardlaw, McKercher, Duursma, Dawson hitting their 4th to 5th seasons. Stick to the plan.

 

[Only Forwards]

It's infuriating to talk of restoring a senior bracket of players now. Brady & Co should be lynched for their decision making 2019-21.

I maintain my stance we should've retained Higgins, Brown and given Tarrant a fair deal back then.

You then have senior presence amd leadership on-ball, forward and defence. You'll still get your draft picks and work your new players into something of a system. The odd win then builds confidence.

And the return we got for those decisions?

Jaidyn Stephenson and Charlie Lazarro. No disrespect to Charlie but neither moved the needle for us.

This is not revisionism. Said it at the time but the list managers felt shredding our experience and KPP depth from 2018+ was somehow going to roll into a magical blossoming a couple of years later.

This is a good post.

However what I will say is that what you are describing points to a much deeper issue for mine. The historic lack of leadership and the slipping of what is tolerable as a leader over the last 20 years.

Of the leaders that we have had within the walls of the football club since our last premiership we would be lucky to have had a handful that lifted themselves to the tops of their positions. Of those there are even fewer who were able to do that for more than a couple of years.

Also the longer that we have gone on the less that we have had. Boomer was the last multiple AA we had and his last AA was in 2008. no player we have had since then has won two jackets. none.

Our last successful era was built on the back of a team that had been broadly together since it was teenagers. It was lead by our greatest ever player. Since that point our leadership has consistently diminished at around the same rate as our ability to truly develop players. We have been overly reliant upon individuals to lift themselves above rather than having a collective system that makes every player better.

It has hurt us that our best players through this time have been almost completely introverted. So that coupling of ability and the desire to call out lack of execution has rendered us down to a point where every team knows our biggest weakness is resilience.

I also believe we have left our captaincy with players a year too long in most cases where they go from being there or there about to being almost completely focussed on their own games. How can a leader lead properly when deep down they know they shouldn't be out there or that their actions let down the side. This is our current reality.

IMO this has weakened the entire leadership process because we continue down a pathway of accepting from our leaders form or execution that should not be accepted. It is not so detrimental when you have an ethos of people stepping up to fill the void. It becomes dire when you have a collective 23 blokes who metaphorically just shrug their shoulders and accept that they are unable to change things.

We do need more leadership because we cut all what we had away and now what we have has never seen good leadership in an AFL club.

If we want to play the game of when we should have rebuilt, the time to do it properly was 2009. The next point was doing it properly from 2017.

Doing it now has been a clusterf*** because we have had to attempt it while trying to overhaul the entirety of the club off field.

One thing is for sure, if any sort of success comes from what we have done every inch of it will have been hard fought.