List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[The Punter]

Jagga is the exact same player Zak Butters was in his draft year. Very good craft and skill, but physically no good. This can easily be worked on at AFL level and over a span of a couple of years, he'll be fine

I can't remember the last time a player flopped in their career due to a lack of size or physical strength

Read posts in this forum on Hunter Clark and you'll see who some people think it is

 

[Saintbloke]

This i just incorrect. I think in 2011 everyone was onboard with a 5 year plan. Most were still on board with it in 2017 when we still had hopes for Billings and Acres and Coffield and Clark were coming on. I think reality hit in 2018 and we got back on board for a rebuild. Went along for the ride with Hill and Crouch and Howard and drafting King.

Another 5 years down the track and really, so far NOTHING has materialised. Most good clubs are working on competing every 5 years (and by competing I mean genuine thraet for top 4 over a few years).

Saints haven't done that since 2008 - 2010. And before that a brief flutter in 97/98 (and I am probably being generous). In the last 35 years we have basically managed just 2 windows. Good clubs would be looking for 4 or 5. You cannot blame supporters for being impatient.

I've been on board since 1968 and I'm pretty well now resigned to the fact that I will be dead before Saints win a flag. Just hope that is not the fate for some of the younger members here and the only way you are going to get that is fail fast and be brutal in your decisions.

As a long term supporter such as yourself, I have seen to so many promises from this club about plans for this and that, but it has basically been an ongoing load of bull to cover up poor management from the board down, to poor recruiting and poor coaching appointments. The current brainwave by the president to drag Lyon back is yet another load of bull that will ultimately implode in a year or two and we will be on to the next coach, president and board.

 

[phantom13]

Can’t be assed finding the post but I recall gringo2011 asking stavro#4 if we’d be bottom four next year and he said yes then caveated it with “maybe we trade pick 5 for LDU” etc etc.

 

[MrFoster]

His game style is absolutely abysmal. We are the worst side in AFL as a spectacle. I think the days of pure defence are outdated and I'm worried he's making list changes to go backwards to cover his arse by blaming the list.

I credit him for building a footy department and setting standards but if he keeps us going backwards we'll end up losing players and making us less attractive to players with potential to trade in.

I hope I'm wrong but so far we are going backwards from where Ratts had us. If he's not the way forward we need to act faster this time. I give him until mid next season to turn this around and then we need to cut him before the rot sets in.

Oh come on, Ratts couldn’t even recognise that our poor midfield is the real issue and try to fix it. did he try to trade or draft any genuine mids during his 3.5 years? 2 players, Crouch as a FA, and Windhager as a NGA.. that’s it..

If he had any coaching acumen, he could have recognise the problem and at least try to bring in more genuine mids.

 

[gubby88]

Can’t be assed finding the post but I recall gringo2011 asking stavro#4 if we’d be bottom four next year and he said yes then caveated it with “maybe we trade pick 5 for LDU” etc etc.

he said this year, not next year


why would you trade pick 5 next year for a free agent? makes no sense


On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[phantom13]

he said this year, not next year


why would you trade pick 5 next year for a free agent? makes no sense


On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Because he’s not an fa this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Can’t be assed finding the post but I recall gringo2011 asking stavro#4 if we’d be bottom four next year and he said yes then caveated it with “maybe we trade pick 5 for LDU” etc etc.

I said this year and we damn well should be aiming to finish down the bottom.

A few pointless wins could really set us back with another middle of nowhere first round pick and watching those mids walk to other clubs.

he said this year, not next year


why would you trade pick 5 next year for a free agent? makes no sense


On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Because he’s not an fa this year.

You have to consider making that offer and try to bring in LDU this year.

You look much nicer to next years bumper crop if you already have LDU signed and sealed for 7 years.

Would also give North a way to land Trainor.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Most clubs have a pretty good contested ball winner.
Based on averages this year.

Cripps 14.5 Pittonet 12.3 Walsh 12.1 Blues.
Rowell 14.5 Moyle 11.8 Suns
Libratore 14.3 Bont 14.1 Treloar 12.9 Bulldogs.
Serong 14.3 Fremantle.
Nick Daicos 14.2 Collingwood.
Yeo 13.4 West Coast
Tom Green 13.3 GWS
Neale 13.2 Lions
Matt Crouch 12.5 Crows
Gawn 12.5 Demons.
Grundy 12.5 Heeney 12.3 Sydney
Taranto 12.3 Tigers
Davies Uniacke 12.1 Xerri 11.9 North

Steele 11.8
We're hanging our hat on the 20th contested possession winner in the comp.
( With a bit of help from RoMa at 11.3 ).

Behind us are Port ( Wines /Butters) Hawks ( Worpel ) Bombers ( Merrett ) Cats ( Conway, Dangerfield , Atkins ).

Trouble is , and i don't know why, but Steele is not what he used to be in that area.
Last season Crouch and Steele combined and won a lot of ball between them. ( With help from RoMa).

Maybe Clark can become that guy, he's only had a couple of games but averaging 11 , the same as Worpel.

Windhager is 48th in the AFL for contested possessions Dow 66th.

Jagga is very skillful and he can find the ball, but i'm thinking he won't end up on that list unless he stops looking like this.

 

[MrFoster]

Stengle isn't coming to us.

Pie in the sky.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Butler and Higgins are excellent small forwards.. but they also struggle with our poor forward entries.. why do we need to pay overs to get Stengle? Invest the money in midfield please.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Oh come on, Ratts couldn’t even recognise that our poor midfield is the real issue and try to fix it. did he try to trade or draft any genuine mids during his 3.5 years? 2 players, Crouch as a FA, and Windhager as a NGA.. that’s it..

If he had any coaching acumen, he could have recognise the problem and at least try to bring in more genuine mids.

You think we should have drafted Ben Hobbs instead of that half back guy we got?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

View attachment 2016703

Yep, some of Hunter Clark's leftover pasta, held on with sticky tape.

 

[moirae42]

You cant deny it kinda has the feeling of a bottom out, with out the real bottom out part.

 

[The Punter]

Better make those wins meaningful then

 

[MrFoster]

You think we should have drafted Ben Hobbs instead of that half back guy we got?

We needed 3-4+ more genuine mids during that period if Ratten knew what he was doing. Nasier is a good player, I wouldn’t be too disappointed if we got Hobbs instead.. He would have gotten plenty of games last year and this year to prove himself.

 

[stavro#4]

You cant deny it kinda has the feeling of a bottom out, with out the real bottom out part.

Losing Battle doesn’t feel anything like that.


Losing Battle + Marshall/Steele would 100% feel like bottoming out.

 

[phantom13]

I said this year and we damn well should be aiming to finish down the bottom.

A few pointless wins could really set us back with another middle of nowhere first round pick and watching those mids walk to other clubs.



You have to consider making that offer and try to bring in LDU this year.

You look much nicer to next years bumper crop if you already have LDU signed and sealed for 7 years.

Would also give North a way to land Trainor.

So CBF multiposting it. Italics is you, bolded for effect.

Do you think we'll be bottom 4 next season? when do we play finals next and how long does Ross get before we have to knife him if he doesn't move us forward?

I think we will. But how can I truly answer that without seeing the list.

Who’s to say we don’t have picks 4+5 and trade 5 for LDU?

Who’s to say battle doesn’t re-sign and then we land Stengle or Ben Ainsworth (meh)

Thats very much 2025 is it not?

Wont hold my breath for an apology from gubby88

Agree on LDU though. Thats basically Battle for LDU.

 

[beside the seaside]

I said this year and we damn well should be aiming to finish down the bottom.

A few pointless wins could really set us back with another middle of nowhere first round pick and watching those mids walk to other clubs.



You have to consider making that offer and try to bring in LDU this year.

You look much nicer to next years bumper crop if you already have LDU signed and sealed for 7 years.

Would also give North a way to land Trainor.

We are clearly trying to win as many games as we can. With our defensive profile returning we could actually win quite a few games in the run home. If we can find a way to score then look out

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Ratts bought in a lot of kids when he arrived and played Clark, Coff, Paton etc who were all young at the time. Right now that balance probably isn't massively younger.

I think the midfield still looks horrible and frustrating. I'd say that our rebound off HB is elite but then most of us want to dismantle it. Pretty much the only ones anyone wants to keep are Nas, Sincs and Wilkie. That will be a much worse line next year if that happens. Especially with Butts the great hope.

Sacking the last lot was one of the best things we did. The list management was abysmal. Most of our players were stained by playing in a poor side so were undesirable and we didn't have much top end.

Bringing in masses of kids sounds great but we really only want high end kids. Bulk list changes isn't the end game. Settling on a future side with no holes and a spread of ages and experience levels is the aim. We are heading for North Melbourne more than Geelong right now.

I reckon you can carry around 3 to 6 kids depending on their quality but need a strong stable side around them. Tip over that and the side starts to play inconsistent footy.

I suggest you compare what we are faced with (losing a UFA) with what Norf did.

We're not in the same stratosphere as that mismanagement.

As I said, there's no indication at all that they're planning on bringing in masses of kids. It'll probably be similar to last year... lose a best 22 player for an extra pick, trade for needs (get this year's Dow & Henry), draft another group of kids in and keep the TPP in good shape to have a massive crack at an LDU next year.

Next year's FA & OOC list is pretty exciting too. Noah Balta is one RFA that I would love to have a massive crack at. He wouldn't be a bad replacement for Battle!

 

[phantom13]

We are clearly trying to win as many games as we can. With our defensive profile returning we could actually win quite a few games in the run home. If we can find a way to score then look out

Whilst I agree with you, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

We’re a mess

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Classic Saints attitude. Fix every single thing in three seasons or you and all your people get out and we'll just start again. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

One bloke who we trust to take us somewhere, he said at the start it wouldn’t be a quick fix, but just because the rest of AFL has started hating us instead of just pitying us, and because the progression isn't like some bullshit reality TV pimp my team / extreme team makeover, now even our rusted on fans have sweaty koits.

We're a shitload better than we were in Ratten's last year, we're in a slump like a lot of teams, a lot of players are out of sorts, we're bedding in a new system, new standards, new team members. It takes time. Thank You For Your Patience, Please Stand By.

This.

Great post Aussie

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

As a long term supporter such as yourself, I have seen to so many promises from this club about plans for this and that, but it has basically been an ongoing load of bull to cover up poor management from the board down, to poor recruiting and poor coaching appointments. The current brainwave by the president to drag Lyon back is yet another load of bull that will ultimately implode in a year or two and we will be on to the next coach, president and board.

Yeah mate, we get it... you're on record as hoping the Lyon regime fails.

If only we kept going with Ratts & Libba all would be super sweet.

 

[Saintbloke]

This is a very under-discussed point. Lyon is a finals specialist, he knows what will get us through when the fire is fiercest, he's not interested in getting Wheatley and Robinson or other pundits to orgasm because he knows St Kilda will never be feted, no matter how good our footy is.

He is in the process of building this club's spine and armour, after which time he'll turn his attention to our weapons.

Another saviour to drag the Saints up the ladder and win a premiership- gawd how many is that in my lifetime. If you want premierships, then Lyon is not a good place to start, especially in 2024

 

[beside the seaside]

Whilst I agree with you, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

We’re a mess

At the moment the forward line and scoring is a mess. But over the last few weeks our defensive game has been much better and I'm not sure we're actually as much of a mess as the media makes out.

I actually think this is a good thing as it improves the chances of keeping Battle and getting guys like LDU over.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We needed 3-4+ more genuine mids during that period if Ratten knew what he was doing. Nasier is a good player, I wouldn’t be too disappointed if we got Hobbs instead.. He would have gotten plenty of games last year and this year to prove himself.

He got plenty of games with the Bombers last year. Didn't particularly distinguish himself.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Another saviour to drag the Saints up the ladder and win a premiership- gawd how many is that in my lifetime. If you want premierships, then Lyon is not a good place to start, especially in 2024

A saviour usually refers to one person acting alone.

Does Enright, Hayes, Harvey, Dalrymple, etc count?