List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[ScrappyDo]

Surely we’ll develop a couple of A grade mids out of Wilson, Nas, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou and this years first pick?

I don’t reckon we need to get too cute about letting a player like Battle go when we have ample cap space to keep him.

If you look our recent history of trades and drafts, the common thread in all the ****-ups is that we haven’t kept it simple…

By the same token we can develop or find a player to fill Battle's role in the same or less time as the afore mentioned. I think Ari shows a bit already and defence is far more about structure and role execution than personnel.

I reckon in a different universe, if suddenly Battle was traded for say pick 6 at the end of the season then almost everyone would say it was a good return.

 

[hayes]

I don’t usually apply too much attention to him.

But thought this was an interesting perspective on apparent unhappiness at Moorabbin.

I liked the part where he said put Owens in the midfield.

GT cops a lot because he’s outspoken but he basically built our most successful period then built a multimillion dollar business. He’s clearly a smart guy who knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Van Es can't even walk without a crutch.

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Better than King who can, apparently.

 

[stavro#4]

So waddaweget for a contracted soon to be 29 year old Jack Steele?

And who's gonna give it to us?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Sometimes I feel bad when you run away for a break, but I need to remember that you’re a condescending flog a lot of the time.

Hello Kettle?

 

[Joffaboy]

I reckon Newnes was pretty underrated. He wasn't a star but he was a solid citizen who played 155 at a good standard. Was pushed out for Hill who has taken years to be an obvious upgrade.

Hill was an obvious upgrade from the word go.
Ask any supporter from the other 17 teams if they prefer Newnes over Hill.
Newnes like Dunstan, like Billings was bog ordinary.

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[The Slug]

Saints
Suns
Bolton Wanderers

I’ve got you covered.

Same as me haha. Although I gave up on Bolton a few years ago after yet another relegation and no ability to watch. Still track their results.

I've also got Detroit Lions in the mix for the ultimate loser kick

 

[Joffaboy]

So waddaweget for a contracted soon to be 29 year old Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

?

And who's gonna give it to us?

You would shudder if you knew...

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[Joffaboy]

View attachment 2032929

Yup. I sorta hope it happens. This place like the club, would be a shambles.

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[austinnn]

Posting this here because Ross gives some journos a whack over the Marshall rumours and then takes down the whole Academy system.

https://www.saints.com.au/video/1586487/lyons-push-for-fairness-in-academies-new-defensive-mix?videoId=1586487&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1719535350001

Hahahaha ****ing awesome! How's that worm Cleary hesitating when he knows he's about to cop it? He's openly hated our club for a long time, that's not going to help!

Great breakdown of the ridiculous price some clubs have paid and continue to pay for their stars, and the call to action for the AFL was pretty clear: "the AFL have abdicated their responsibility" - wonder if that "Gettysburg Address" will change anything or at least start the ball rolling a little faster?

Looks like Hamner is going to be given every chance to find his feet in the backline. Love seeing him mark and kick goals, but I'll settle for the Fraser Gehrig pathway.

 

[DougalHoward]

Doing well with his defensive craft too. Currently sitting equal 3rd for the best 1-on-1 contests loss percentage. Some good company on that list.

And the Dougal haters are silent

 

[stfan]

I liked the part where he said put Owens in the midfield.

GT cops a lot because he’s outspoken but he basically built our most successful period

While GT gets the credit it he was just actually part of a core group who banded together to resurrect the Saints including Kellet, Butters, Waldron and others. No one of them would have been enough.

With the exception of Kellet personal flaws of some (Thomas, Butters and Waldron) of them ended up getting in the way and disrupted what had been going well.

 

[kernelT]

By the same token we can develop or find a player to fill Battle's role in the same or less time as the afore mentioned. I think Ari shows a bit already and defence is far more about structure and role execution than personnel.

I reckon in a different universe, if suddenly Battle was traded for say pick 6 at the end of the season then almost everyone would say it was a good return.

I reckon Battle is well on the way to 200 games, a rare feat for players we draft, even rarer that they finish their careers at St Kilda.

How many of the past 25 pick 6's would you rather over Battle?

1999: Damian Cupido
2000: Dylan Smith
2001: Ashley Sampi
2002: Steven Salopek
2003: Kepler Bradley
2004: Tom Williams
2005: Beau Dowler
2006: Mitch Thorp
2007: David Myers
2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Gary Rohan
2010: Reece Conca
2011: Chad Wingard
2012: Jack Macrae
2013: Matthew Scharenberg
2014: Caleb Marchbank
2015: Aaron Francis
2016: Sam Petrevski-Seton
2017: Jaidyn Stephenson
2018; B King
2019; F McAsey
2020: D Grainger-Barras
2021: J Rachele
2022: B Humphrey
2023: R Sanders

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I reckon Newnes was pretty underrated. He wasn't a star but he was a solid citizen who played 155 at a good standard. Was pushed out for Hill who has taken years to be an obvious upgrade.

Newnes had a few decent years but was otherwise a major disappointment.

Hill was an instant upgrade. Maybe you have forgotten Newnes’ kicking blindly only to find the opposition.


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[SteeleSaints]

I reckon Battle is well on the way to 200 games, a rare feat for players we draft, even rarer that they finish their careers at St Kilda.

How many of the past 25 pick 6's would you rather over Battle?

1999: Damian Cupido
2000: Dylan Smith
2001: Ashley Sampi
2002: Steven Salopek
2003: Kepler Bradley
2004: Tom Williams
2005: Beau Dowler
2006: Mitch Thorp
2007: David Myers
2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Gary Rohan
2010: Reece Conca
2011: Chad Wingard
2012: Jack Macrae
2013: Matthew Scharenberg
2014: Caleb Marchbank
2015: Aaron Francis
2016: Sam Petrevski-Seton
2017: Jaidyn Stephenson
2018; B King
2019; F McAsey
2020: D Grainger-Barras
2021: J Rachele
2022: B Humphrey
2023: R Sanders

Wow that list is pretty damning there is possibly 2 out the 25 you would chose over Battle, and only 1 is a midfielder.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Newnes had a few decent years but was otherwise a major disappointment.

Hill was an instant upgrade. Maybe you have forgotten Newnes’ kicking blindly only to find the opposition.


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He was too late in a pretty ordinary draft to be considered a "major disappointment".

 

[stavro#4]

I reckon Battle is well on the way to 200 games, a rare feat for players we draft, even rarer that they finish their careers at St Kilda.

How many of the past 25 pick 6's would you rather over Battle?

1999: Damian Cupido
2000: Dylan Smith
2001: Ashley Sampi
2002: Steven Salopek
2003: Kepler Bradley
2004: Tom Williams
2005: Beau Dowler
2006: Mitch Thorp
2007: David Myers
2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Gary Rohan
2010: Reece Conca
2011: Chad Wingard
2012: Jack Macrae
2013: Matthew Scharenberg
2014: Caleb Marchbank
2015: Aaron Francis
2016: Sam Petrevski-Seton
2017: Jaidyn Stephenson
2018; B King
2019; F McAsey
2020: D Grainger-Barras
2021: J Rachele
2022: B Humphrey
2023: R Sanders

At their best and injury free.

But when posing this hypothetical- show the next 3 picks.

Because all your post will show is who picked well and who didn’t. It doesn’t show the quality of the draft and that should be your actual argument.

 

[beside the seaside]

I thought Ross sounded very confident that Battle will stay in the press conference today. Mentioned "you back in your culture and the rest takes care of itself". Very confident he'll re-sign now.

 

[kernelT]

At their best and injury free.

But when posing this hypothetical- show the next 3 picks.

Because all your post will show is who picked well and who didn’t. It doesn’t show the quality of the draft and that should be your actual argument.

Yarran & Marchbank? FMD

The last three drafts look good for pick 6 but it's pretty early days.

All I'm showing is the players selected by many different clubs over 25 years, no cherry picking or focusing on a certain club, but as you've mentioned draft quality, this one is meant to be pretty thin for talent.

You've picked 8 from 25 who you'd rather have than Josh Battle, even with a couple of very questionable suggestions it makes for a 32% strike rate.

 

[kernelT]

Newnes had a few decent years but was otherwise a major disappointment.

Hill was an instant upgrade. Maybe you have forgotten Newnes’ kicking blindly only to find the opposition.


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Would you rather have kept Newnes for a couple more years, kept Acres and taken Serong instead of Hill/Howard?

 

[stavro#4]

Yarran & Marchbank? FMD

The last three drafts look good for pick 6 but it's pretty early days.

All I'm showing is the players selected by many different clubs over 25 years, no cherry picking or focusing on a certain club, but as you've mentioned draft quality, this one is meant to be pretty thin for talent.

You've picked 8 from 25 who you'd rather have than Josh Battle, even with a couple of very questionable suggestions it makes for a 32% strike rate.

I’ve picked 8 who at their best are better.

But in most those years I reckon there would be a fair few hits between picks 6-10 in the same year and that would mean 2 top 5 or 6 picks would be pretty handy if you have good recruiters.

Which is the point I’m trying to make.

Showing the history of the pick doesn’t translate to the quality of the draft. It doesn’t take into consideration that a club chose need over talent or if they had a good or bad recruiter.

The most accurate way to make the decision would be if you asked: would you take pick 6 in how many of these drafts and provide the pick and the next handful for people to make a decision of the strength of it.

Most would probably take the roll of the dice of the pick to the draft in most cases.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I reckon Battle is well on the way to 200 games, a rare feat for players we draft, even rarer that they finish their careers at St Kilda.

How many of the past 25 pick 6's would you rather over Battle?

1999: Damian Cupido
2000: Dylan Smith
2001: Ashley Sampi
2002: Steven Salopek
2003: Kepler Bradley
2004: Tom Williams
2005: Beau Dowler
2006: Mitch Thorp
2007: David Myers
2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Gary Rohan
2010: Reece Conca
2011: Chad Wingard
2012: Jack Macrae
2013: Matthew Scharenberg
2014: Caleb Marchbank
2015: Aaron Francis
2016: Sam Petrevski-Seton
2017: Jaidyn Stephenson
2018; B King
2019; F McAsey
2020: D Grainger-Barras
2021: J Rachele
2022: B Humphrey
2023: R Sanders

Pick 6 is a known dead man's hand, but that's a statistical anomaly rather than a curse.
For our current situation:
Mcrae
B King
Rachele
Humphrey
Sanders

I've said before I'd probably rather keep Battle and "if" the decision is about money the club can gauge it depending on where we finish and what the recruiters think of the draft, which is waaaaay more reliable than what BF pundits believe. They can always stump up another 150k if need be at the time. If Batts wants out then that's that.

For me the question is weather we have faith in the recruiting (we have no choice BTW).
Dalrymple is proven and well regarded. SOS is a prick but excellent in obtaining maximum value from everything, and it seems he's somewhat excluded from talent identification which was his Achilles heel.

Yes Batts is a 200 gamer and l hope he stays. But it's early days still and the clubs stance is the right one for right now. Everything is subject to change.
We only have last year to gauge our list/trade management on, l gave it an A+ and still do.

I don't get worked up about it anymore. Wins are the last piece to fall into place after all.
We have a very good footy dpt now and the list is better this year than last. As long as we keep moving forward it's about all we can ask, alternatively blow it up like Norff did. No thanks.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Hill was an obvious upgrade from the word go.
Ask any supporter from the other 17 teams if they prefer Newnes over Hill.
Newnes like Dunstan, like Billings was bog ordinary.

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Hilly I love, never seen anyone that can't tackle like he though, coral'e is his thing

 

[kernelT]

I’ve picked 8 who at their best are better.

But in most those years I reckon there would be a fair few hits between picks 6-10 in the same year and that would mean 2 top 5 or 6 picks would be pretty handy if you have good recruiters.

Which is the point I’m trying to make.

Showing the history of the pick doesn’t translate to the quality of the draft. It doesn’t take into consideration that a club chose need over talent or if they had a good or bad recruiter.

The most accurate way to make the decision would be if you asked: would you take pick 6 in how many of these drafts and provide the pick and the next handful for people to make a decision of the strength of it.

Most would probably take the roll of the dice of the pick to the draft in most cases.

Most of those pick 6 clubs have premierships in that period so you would have to assume are pretty switched on in the recruiting department. I would suggest that most people will disagree with Yarran & Marchbank over Battle, so 6/25 is horrendous odds… 24% but still better than our own strike rate of converting players into draft picks.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Hilly I love, never seen anyone that can't tackle like he though, coral'e is his thing

Forgotten Billings that quickly ay?