List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[gringo2011]

Conveniently forgetting Footscray

Joe Biden was probably pretty good before 2018 too. He did well at the Dogs for sure but he hasn't been great recently.

 

[gringo2011]

Could we turn that boat around?

We haven't had a great track record. Ross Lyon had a couple of absolute shockers at Freo and Lovett was on his watch too.

 

[Sol Goodman]

We haven't had a great track record. Ross Lyon had a couple of absolute shockers at Freo and Lovett was on his watch too.

Too much baggage and love handles!

 

[gringo2011]

that's my argument in reply to those who have mentioned battle's inflated price will hamstrung us into the future and releasing that money allows us to chase a free agent. my argument is that it really doesn't matter and that the net affect of retaining him is greater than the dream of a free agent which isn't happening until we consistently play finals. i.e. i'd rather just pay the extra 200k to keep him than using that money on what we already have i.e. overpaying someone like wilson because we have to spend the money somewhere.

tbh i'm sick of cellar dwelling then being sold this idea we are a pick away from a once in a generation player that will turn the whole ship around. its the goddard sell all over again and i get goddard was pick 12 but its the same type of idea. i'd rather just keep the guy and see what happens.

It really feels like we've gone full circle back to gambling just as a new franchise starts up. Pelican would be very excited.

 

[stavro#4]

Joe Biden was probably pretty good before 2018 too. He did well at the Dogs for sure but he hasn't been great recently.

You know people become highly rated… because of their body of work. Not because of one draft.

That bulldog list was often a list of hits. He had similar at the swans bar Dylan Stephens.

 

[SteeleSaints]

And our first round picks since 2003- Raph Clarke, 2004 McQualter, 2005 Traded for Fergus Watts, 2006 Armo, 2007 McEvoy, 2008 Lynch, 2009 Traded for Lovett, 2010 Cripps, 2011 Saad Milera trade down, 2012 Wright/White and trade out to get Hickey and Lee, 2013 Billings, Dunstan and Acres, 2014 McCartin, Goddard and DMac, 2015 traded out for Carlisle and Gresham, 2016 Traded out to get future pick, 2017 Clark and Coffield, 2018 King, 2019 traded out for Hill etc, 2020 traded out for Higgins and Allison, 2021 Nas, 2022 Phillipou, 2023 Wilson.

In 21 years we have found one absolute blue chip player in Nas and our last 2 are extremely promising but we've sacked the guy that got them. The guy we replaced him with has one good but not outstanding player in his time at Sydney with FRDPs in McDonald.

If I'm a gambling man I'm not putting up my pay cheque.

Im happy to give Dalrymple the benefit of the doubt, his Bulldogs record was good, but with plenty of misses. How the club came to the conclusion he was better than what we had I dont know, but if there was ever a period we need to nail every god damn pick then its now! Dalrymple doesnt impress with any of his media he looks a different cat who comes across a bit accentric, but that doesnt matter if he can pick the right kids.

 

[StCicatriz]

It really feels like we've gone full circle back to gambling just as a new franchise starts up. Pelican would be very excited.

honestly it feels like ground hog day. i get we have different people in charge but geeze the same optimism is getting sold. i get it, you need the messiah complex given our situation and what we are up against.

its interesting saints supporters get shy of sacking the coach and cite instability in the past, but the players they seem to not apply the same logic too. i find that strange.

honestly i wish we had this same logic for someone like hunter clark and billings (pre the melbourne deal) as we have with battle right now.

liek with everything saints... timing is wrong.. or we apply the right logic to the wrong players.

 

[stavro#4]

Im happy to give Dalrymple the benefit of the doubt, but his Bulldogs record was less than ordinary to be fair. How the club came to the conclusion he was better than what we had I dont know, but if there was ever a period we need to nail every god damn pick then its now! Dalrymple doesnt impress with any of his media he looks a different cat who comes across a bit accentric, but that doesnt matter if he can pick the right kids.

Less than ordinary??!

2010: Wallis F/S, Libba F/S, Jayden Schofield (74), Skinner (88), Tom Hill (89), Dahlhaus (R), Johannisen (R), Ed Barlow (R)

2011: Clay Smith (17), Michael Talia (39), Daniel Pearce (49), Lin Jong (R), Alex Greenwood (R), Jack Redpath (R), Mark Austin (R)

2012: Stringer (5), Macrae (6), Hrovat (21), Hunter F/S, Prudden (50), Brett Goodes (R)

2013: Bontempelli (4), Fuller (42), Honeychurch (60)

2014: McLean (26), Lukas Webb (27), Hamilton (39), Bailey Dale (45), Caleb Daniel (46), Cordy F/S, Roarke Smith (R), Jordan Kelly (R)

2015: Dunkley (25), Keiran Collins (26), Marcus Adams (35), Bailey Williams (48), Bradley Lynch (R), Luke Goetz (R), Jed Adock (R)

2016: English (19), Lipinski (28), Lewis Young (49), Fergus Greene (70)

2017: Naughton (9), Ed Richards (16), Callum Porter (74), Gowers (R)

left for swans feb 2018

my take on it is that he's benefited from the father sons... he's found some quality in the rookie draft early on but then started to really nail his first picks. he still seemed to find them just not at the same level as his last handful of years at the dogs.

Stringer, Macrae, Bont, Dunkley, Naughton and English.

what is interesting is that the dogs couldnt retain some of what he drafted in Stringer, Dunkley but there's also other guys in there that jumped. like marcus adams.

it's interesting that in his time at the swans he couldn't recreate the same first round hit rate with his mids.

There are massive hits all over that list.

The worst top 20 pick he had arguably was a huge part of their 2016 finals campaign.

Clay smith.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we are cellar dwellers because we lack top end talent.

Top end talent is usually found at the top end of the draft.

We can move a defender who isn’t worth a top first rounder for potentially pick 5.

It’s really simple. Lets try this for change.

All sides need more elite talent. You also need a core and continuity of games together and a speed of ages though. We totally should keep drafting with our high picks and chasing young talent. Selling your shoes to gamble on winning a box of socks isn't really a solid plan though.

You can also only play so much youth before you tip over into North Melbourne territory. If we have half the side each week that is under 21 we are going to struggle to compete.

 

[Jade Buddha]

2 picks seems to dilute focus and they **** 2 picks up. Dalrymple's big wins at Sydney have been in picking in the later scraps. He's blown a lot of early picks in his time there but redeemed with stars late in the draft.

2018 Nick Blakey, James Rowbottom, Justin McInerney, Zac Foot

2019 Dylan Stephens, Will Gould, Elijah Taylor, Chad Warner, Brady Rowles and Jack Maibaum.

2020 Braeden Campbell, Errol Gulden, Logan McDonald and Marc Sheather.

2021 Angus Sheldrick, Matthew Roberts, Corey Warner and Lachlan Rankin

2022 Konstanty, Cooper Vickery and Caleb Mitchell.

2023 Green , Cleary , Snell

Fair point

 

[gringo2011]

Im happy to give Dalrymple the benefit of the doubt, his Bulldogs record was good, but with plenty of misses. How the club came to the conclusion he was better than what we had I dont know, but if there was ever a period we need to nail every god damn pick then its now! Dalrymple doesnt impress with any of his media he looks a different cat who comes across a bit accentric, but that doesnt matter if he can pick the right kids.

He comes across as quite old now. I tend to agree though. His Sydney form has been a quite ordinary but I think there might have been too many chefs . Beatson would have been a pretty loud voice there.

 

[StCicatriz]

Less than ordinary??!

There are massive hits all over that list.

The worst top 20 pick he had arguably was a huge part of their 2016 finals campaign.

Clay smith.

i'd agree with that... i don't think he's had the same level of success in the first round at the swans as he did at the dogs if im being honest. which is a degree of concern but i'd back him in and see what he can do.

i still wouldnt sell battle to give him more draft currency though. let him show what he can do with the hand he's been given. there's actually a bit to be concerned about with those first round picks at the swans.

 

[Joffaboy]

Mitch Cleary saying on Tradies podcast that if we were to take on Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

's 6-year contract with $1mil/year, we wouldn't have to give up a top 10 pick

Sorry wasn't coming back to this thread but had to comment.
The lack of insight and sheer delusion by Melbourne to think they will still ask for a first ( all Cleary said was not top 10) for an unfit drug riddled player on over a mill and on the downward slide is hilarious.
Melbourne will be giving the top 10 plus Oliver or paying 500k of his salary for the next six years or they can keep him.

Holy hell

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Yawkey way]

I’d give them our second rounder for their first and Oliver.

Ain’t no way I’m touching that ticking bomb for another 6 years and he owed millions without atleast getting a first rounder back


He absolutely hamstrings their cap.

He’s a great player and we’re instantly a much better team in theory. In practice with a lot of youth he’d need to be a fully committed new man and you’re still walking a tightrope. His contract must be an absolute shocker or we wouldn’t even be talking about this. I’m guessing you can forget inserting anything into it or Melbourne would have.

I still think if he moves it will be down the highway to Geelong.

 

[stavro#4]

i'd agree with that... i don't think he's had the same level of success in the first round at the swans as he did at the dogs if im being honest. which is a degree of concern but i'd back him in and see what he can do.

i still wouldnt sell battle to give him more draft currency though. let him show what he can do with the hand he's been given. there's actually a bit to be concerned about with those first round picks at the swans.

You need to revisit his actual swans picks.

He blew the Dylan Stephens pick.

But he nails 1 gun in each draft from 2019-2021. (Counting Matt Roberts in 2021 as if he played for us we would be raving)

2022 and 2023 haven’t had much exposure

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry wasn't coming back to this thread but had to comment.
The lack of insight and sheer delusion by Melbourne to think they will still ask for a first ( all Cleary said was not top 10) for an unfit drug riddled player on over a mill and on the downward slide is hilarious.
Melbourne will be giving the top 10 plus Oliver or paying 500k of his salary for the next six years or they can keep him.

Holy hell

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think that someone might roll the dice for free and take on his contract. Melbourne might not have to give up a pick and money towards his contract.

He wouldn't be pushed out if his off field issues were under control though. Buyer beware.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Sorry wasn't coming back to this thread but had to comment.
The lack of insight and sheer delusion by Melbourne to think they will still ask for a first ( all Cleary said was not top 10) for an unfit drug riddled player on over a mill and on the downward slide is hilarious.
Melbourne will be giving the top 10 plus Oliver or paying 500k of his salary for the next six years or they can keep him.

Holy hell

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree. I’d definitely take him but **** taking expensive mistakes and making them ours.
He’s have to come cheap.
We’re seeing a bit of this now where premiership contending sides **** up mega contracts thinking they’re going to have a golden era.
Let them wallow.

 

[StCicatriz]

He’s a great player and we’re instantly a much better team in theory. In practice with a lot of youth he’d need to be a fully committed new man and you’re still walking a tightrope. His contract must be an absolute shocker or we wouldn’t even be talking about this. I’m guessing you can forget inserting anything into it or Melbourne would have.

I still think if he moves it will be down the highway to Geelong.

he's probably a good fit for the dogs lol

 

[Diehard Saint]

And our first round picks since 2003- Raph Clarke, 2004 McQualter, 2005 Traded for Fergus Watts, 2006 Armo, 2007 McEvoy, 2008 Lynch, 2009 Traded for Lovett, 2010 Cripps, 2011 Saad Milera trade down, 2012 Wright/White and trade out to get Hickey and Lee, 2013 Billings, Dunstan and Acres, 2014 McCartin, Goddard and DMac, 2015 traded out for Carlisle and Gresham, 2016 Traded out to get future pick, 2017 Clark and Coffield, 2018 King, 2019 traded out for Hill etc, 2020 traded out for Higgins and Allison, 2021 Nas, 2022 Phillipou, 2023 Wilson.

In 21 years we have found one absolute blue chip player in Nas and our last 2 are extremely promising but we've sacked the guy that got them. The guy we replaced him with has one good but not outstanding player in his time at Sydney with FRDPs in McDonald.

If I'm a gambling man I'm not putting up my pay cheque.

And as I said the other day…it may be tragic history - but it’s history.
The club is different.
Bar RTB, the people are different.

I’m tired of meandering along mired in mediocrity.
For me right now it’s no guts, no glory.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Mitch Cleary saying on Tradies podcast that if we were to take on Clayton Oliver's 6-year contract with $1mil/year, we wouldn't have to give up a top 10 pick

Well that’s big of them. It’s a done deal I guess

 

[gringo2011]

He’s a great player and we’re instantly a much better team in theory. In practice with a lot of youth he’d need to be a fully committed new man and you’re still walking a tightrope. His contract must be an absolute shocker or we wouldn’t even be talking about this. I’m guessing you can forget inserting anything into it or Melbourne would have.

I still think if he moves it will be down the highway to Geelong.

Does it make you a middling side for another 4 years and not able to draft in the sweet spot? It sounds like we still don't know where we are still.

 

[Diehard Saint]

there's also an element of if keeping him there does more damage to the dees. why wouldn't you want a club who's looking to play final be held back by something like that.

i'd rather they live with that problem moving fwd and not us.

100%
You take a chance with a huge contract, with a player you must know has issues, you stand to be bitten on the bum.
Not for me thanks.

 

[gringo2011]

And as I said the other day…it may be tragic history - but it’s history.
The club is different.
Bar RTB, the people are different.

I’m tired of meandering along mired in mediocrity.
For me right now it’s no guts, no glory.

To me its a lot to do with gambling instead of doing the sensible boring stuff. No guts sounds good but we got here by doing just what you are asking for. Trying to cheat a self levelling system makes natural progression slower. There are heaps more sides that have stayed down for years by refusing to do the hard work first.

A really good list manager would be a really good investment IMO. Gubby and Sos are experienced but not necessarily top shelf. Sos has built lists from the bottom of the ladder. It's architecturally harder from mid table but like Richmond and others that have jumped sometimes a few very tailored pieces are enough to boost up.

I'd say it's a good era to attack with very few outstanding sides dominating. If we build over 5 years we are hoping to be up when sides like North, West Coast and Hawks should be dominating the landscape. Even Brisbane and Sydney have lots of youth to push up higher.

 

[Diehard Saint]

.
Melbourne will be giving the top 10 plus Oliver or paying 500k of his salary for the next six years or they can keep him.

Holy hell

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Richo will be very “disappointed” with your take.

 

[stavro#4]