List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Yawkey way]

Still doesn’t change the fact he would cost more draft capital than Shiel.

They won’t just be dumping Macrae.

Which is where the appeal probably is for Shiel.

A year on the books. Use the cap (contract ends 2025)
Probably our third for their 4th and Shiel gets it done.

( I’m guessing here. )

They want his money off the books so I’m not trading anything we can use for him. If he comes let it be for a junk pick, this is a win for Essendon locked in his worth to us is yet to be determined. I’m not really sold on the idea of recruiting any of the old stagers. When you weigh up cost, potential to get on the field and provide some impact, willingness to play at sandy and provide on field leadership I’m giving Seb Ross another year.

 

[stavro#4]

They want his money off the books so I’m not trading anything we can use for him. If he comes let it be for a junk pick, this is a win for Essendon locked in his worth to us is yet to be determined. I’m not really sold on the idea of recruiting any of the old stagers. When you weigh up cost, potential to get on the field and provide some impact, willingness to play at sandy and provide on field leadership I’m giving Seb Ross another year.

I suppose they think Shiel offers more then Ross onfield in an AFL match.

From the last few games. That looks correct.

I just can’t see us doing this without it ultimately being a shuffle of nothing picks.

 

[MordySaint]

Don't disagree on most of those - but pick 5 or 6 is a different proposition to 17 plus Savage. It's all about who we draft in this place. We also let a contracted McEvoy go, we don't necessarily get a choice in this matter if he wants to leave.

Tell me which points you actually disagree on?

The Battle situation is about money, it always is.

Bottom line is free agency is hurting the less successful clubs. It's making a tiered system of the have and have not's.

Gresham last year, Battle this year... who is next year? Richer/more powerful clubs now just look at our list now and say who can we poach.

The club needs to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I suppose they think Shiel offers more then Ross onfield in an AFL match.

From the last few games. That looks correct.

I just can’t see us doing this without it ultimately being a shuffle of nothing picks.

Only makes sense if Crouch is completely cooked. But the idea we could have combinations of Seb, Crouch, Jones and Shiel all clogging up the rehab facilities gives me shivers.
It feels like a bad backwards step and we should be looking at playing Hugo and our 1stRDP ahead of the 30+ brigade.

 

[Klaatu]

I suppose they think Shiel offers more then Ross onfield in an AFL match.

From the last few games. That looks correct.

I just can’t see us doing this without it ultimately being a shuffle of nothing picks.

This is just my opinion but bringing in a player like Shiel at the expence of Ross could end in disaster as the majority of this playing group have played with Ross for 7- 8 years & if this isn't sold to the playing group who knows how it would go down.

Shiel 31/32 years old , Ross 30/31 now if you said we were sacrificing Ross for a mid 20 year old with up take they would buy that more, Shiel will never win the trust or friendship of the players.

 

[Klaatu]

Tell me which points you actually disagree on?

The Battle situation is about money, it always is.

Bottom line is free agency is hurting the less successful clubs. It's making a tiered system of the have and have not's.

Gresham last year, Battle this year... who is next year? Richer/more powerful clubs now just look at our list now and say who can we poach.

The club needs to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.

Free agency was brought in by the players association & the AFL thought it would help the bottom clubs, it hasn't in fact it's hurt them more & the AFL are powerless to do anything about it as far as StKilda is concerned the only way you avoid being pillaged is to be successful easier said then done, but going to the draft nailing 75% of picks is the way to go.

When was the last time StKilda got any concession on or hand outs of players i can't remember 2000/01, so we do it tough & we have been our own worst enemy at times luck has not gone our way, things will change Ross will set it up and Enright will take over as senior coach after him thats the time i think we will be peaking.

 

[stavro#4]

This is just my opinion but bringing in a player like Shiel at the expence of Ross could end in disaster as the majority of this playing group have played with Ross for 7- 8 years & if this isn't sold to the playing group who knows how it would go down.

Shiel 31/32 years old , Ross 30/31 now if you said we were sacrificing Ross for a mid 20 year old with up take they would buy that more, Shiel will never win the trust or friendship of the players.

Not sure this is an actual thing to worry about.

It’s been very clear for 12 months now that this football department are happy to move people on.

Membrey Howard survived 12 months ago. For different reasons. But they got told to and were happy to look around.

Gresham and Billings didn’t survive. They got moved on.

Ross has fallen into that pack.

It’s the nature of the beast. Every other club operates like this.

Spots on our list are now earned. I’m 1000% confident of that now. There won’t be rose coloured glasses applied to it.

 

[MordySaint]

Free agency was brought in by the players association & the AFL thought it would help the bottom clubs, it hasn't in fact it's hurt them more & the AFL are powerless to do anything about it as far as StKilda is concerned the only way you avoid being pillaged is to be successful easier said then done, but going to the draft nailing 75% of picks is the way to go.

When was the last time StKilda got any concession on or hand outs of players i can't remember 2000/01, so we do it tough & we have been our own worst enemy at times luck has not gone our way, things will change Ross will set it up and Enright will take over as senior coach after him thats the time i think we will be peaking.

I applaud what Basset and Ross are trying to do in this space as its not a level playing field.

We go to other clubs and try to get some better players to come over under free agency and they say no. Powerful clubs come to us and poach our better players and they say yes.

The compensation for Gresham last year was quite frankly ridiculous, best 22 player for a roll of the dice mid draft... no thanks.

Club needs to say enough is enough, or others will follow.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Free agency was brought in by the players association & the AFL thought it would help the bottom clubs, it hasn't in fact it's hurt them more & the AFL are powerless to do anything about it as far as StKilda is concerned the only way you avoid being pillaged is to be successful easier said then done, but going to the draft nailing 75% of picks is the way to go.

When was the last time StKilda got any concession on or hand outs of players i can't remember 2000/01, so we do it tough & we have been our own worst enemy at times luck has not gone our way, things will change Ross will set it up and Enright will take over as senior coach after him thats the time i think we will be peaking.

Don't believe the AFL thought it would help bottom clubs. That's just the sugar coating they used to sell it.

 

[MordySaint]

Not sure this is an actual thing to worry about.

It’s been very clear for 12 months now that this football department are happy to move people on.

Membrey Howard survived 12 months ago. For different reasons. But they got told to and were happy to look around.

Gresham and Billings didn’t survive. They got moved on.

Ross has fallen into that pack.

It’s the nature of the beast. Every other club operates like this.

Spots on our list are now earned. I’m 1000% confident of that now. There won’t be rose coloured glasses applied to it.

So how has Shiel earned the right to play for us?

He's played 4 games this year and looks to be now injury prone.

His disposals and effectiveness are tapering off dramatically from his glory days at the GWS.

I just don't get it. This if done looks to be a change for changes sake or an opportunity to sell hope.

 

[stavro#4]

So how has Shiel earned the right to play for us?

He's played 4 games this year and looks to be now injury prone.

His disposals and effectiveness are tapering off dramatically from his glory days at the GWS.

I just don't get it. This if done looks to be a change for changes sake or an opportunity to sell hope.

Because based on his last 6 weeks of football he presents as a better option than Ross and there are some serious queries on Crouch returning right now.

Irrespective of this boards perception of Shiel, he is still averaging 25 disposals in the last 3 weeks at AFL level. He is probably slower than his pomp but he still exited front of stoppage from watching Friday night. He still managed to find the football okay - even with some moments he probably would want back.

I’m not talking him up as a star. I think as a footballer he is more valuable than some of our older heads and that’s how I’m viewing it.

If it cost more than a lollie wrapper I’d be fuming.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes or No.

Would you pay Battle $1m+ a year to retain him?

Do you think Battle is worth pick 5?

I reckon if you needed to replace him with a similar player it probably costs you a first round pick. There aren’t many good interceptors available. Pick 5 probably wouldn’t come in a trade because he suits clubs ready to challenge but you probably get a late first and change on the open market. Like ruck forwards or top tier KPBs, they are like hen’s teeth so you have to pay up more than their perceived value.

 

[gringo2011]

So how has Shiel earned the right to play for us?

He's played 4 games this year and looks to be now injury prone.

His disposals and effectiveness are tapering off dramatically from his glory days at the GWS.

I just don't get it. This if done looks to be a change for changes sake or an opportunity to sell hope.

His disposal has always been horrific.

 

[stavro#4]

I reckon if you needed to replace him with a similar player it probably costs you a first round pick. There aren’t many good interceptors available. Pick 5 probably wouldn’t come in a trade because he suits clubs ready to challenge but you probably get a late first and change on the open market. Like ruck forwards or top tier KPBs, they are like hen’s teeth so you have to pay up more than their perceived value.

So we agree that if we got pick 5 for Battle. We come out ahead on the value component of this?


The drafting part or what to do with that pick is an entirely different argument.

 

[gringo2011]

Free agency was brought in by the players association & the AFL thought it would help the bottom clubs, it hasn't in fact it's hurt them more & the AFL are powerless to do anything about it as far as StKilda is concerned the only way you avoid being pillaged is to be successful easier said then done, but going to the draft nailing 75% of picks is the way to go.

When was the last time StKilda got any concession on or hand outs of players i can't remember 2000/01, so we do it tough & we have been our own worst enemy at times luck has not gone our way, things will change Ross will set it up and Enright will take over as senior coach after him thats the time i think we will be peaking.

90% has been our inability to fix drafting, development and reset the footy department. The AFL hasn’t helped because we have rarely let ourselves drop to the bottom for an extended period. We have topped up to avoid bottoming out rather than trying to build a premiership list.

We are still doing some things in a way that I think looks second rate and a few staff are crap still but at least the spend on the footy department is there under Bassat. If that’s not there it’s just throwing careers in the bin.

 

[gringo2011]

So we agree that if we got pick 5 for Battle. We come out ahead on the value component of this?


The drafting part or what to do with that pick is an entirely different argument.

No I can see why the temptation to gamble is there. If you have to off set the gain against what it will cost to replace him it’s nowhere near as attractive. FAs don’t want to come to us as it is. It also probably pushes us down the ladder and makes us even less attractive to FAs.

 

[gringo2011]

I suppose they think Shiel offers more then Ross onfield in an AFL match.

From the last few games. That looks correct.

I just can’t see us doing this without it ultimately being a shuffle of nothing picks.

Shiel doesn’t get on the park.

 

[stavro#4]

Shiel doesn’t get on the park.

In our midfield?

If Seb Ross or Ryan Byrnes can get games this year. Shiel can too.

 

[stavro#4]

No I can see why the temptation to gamble is there. If you have to off set the gain against what it will cost to replace him it’s nowhere near as attractive. FAs don’t want to come to us as it is. It also probably pushes us down the ladder and makes us even less attractive to FAs.

You literally said: “probably get a late first and change on the open market.”

So how would we not come out infront with pick 5 - on a value basis?

 

[_Maximus_12]

Many a side has improved after losing players far better than Battle the season prior.

Let’s not get carried away

 

[EconomicDecline]

Without trawling back through the thread, why is there Shiel talk again? Can't get on the park and even Ross, Jones, etc have played in a team that have won a final more recently.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What’s this Owens talk on gettable??? If someone offers him midfield time??? Where does this crap cone from ??
NAS - I think we all worry for SA lure…but cmon ..
How pissed would you be watching Owens become a bull mid another club..

All they’re doing is reading what we say and the discussions we have to try and get some content. Honestly, why would they be discussing him otherwise. He’s hardly a big name.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Are the 'keep Battle at all costs' crew happy that deal reported to be on the table for him would make him our 2nd highest paid player?

$800k... Only Hilly's current pay packet has him covered.

As good a player as he is, locking ourselves in to a 6 year deal on close to a million clams a year is very risky business.

To be honest, if he's holding a gun to the club's head when he's being offered almost $5m makes all this 'fabric of the club' talk absolute nonsense.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I applaud what Basset and Ross are trying to do in this space as its not a level playing field.
We go to other clubs and try to get some better players to come over under free agency and they say no. Powerful clubs come to us and poach our better players and they say yes.

The compensation for Gresham last year was quite frankly ridiculous, best 22 player for a roll of the dice mid draft... no thanks.

Club needs to say enough is enough, or others will follow.

Which player have we lost that we didn’t really mind if we did?
Gresham and Billings? Meh. Have made no difference to the team at all.

Josh will probably be the first, but the sweetner for him will at least be very good/worth it depending on your point of view.

*Of course the disclaimer is that we get band 1. And with everything Bassat etc have been bringing to the AFL I cannot see how they cheat us out of it.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Are the 'keep Battle at all costs' happy that deal reported to be on the table for him would make him our 2nd highest paid player?

$800k... Only Hilly's current pay packet has him covered.

As good a player as he is, locking ourselves in to a 6 year deal on close to a million clams a year is very risky business.

To be honest, if he's holding a gun to the club's head when he's being offered almost $5m makes all this 'fabric of the club' talk absolute nonsense.

The fabric of the club talk is just self affirmation from the pro keep side.
If it were the case, he'd have taken the $800k-6 year contract offered long ago and you'd think at 26yo would be in the leadership group.