List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[StCicatriz]

Mate, this is Josh Battle you’re talking about. Not Jeremy Cameron.
Battle is not winning games off his own boot.
Trying to tie any potential decline to a Josh Battle departure is laughable.
He is not, nor is he likely to ever be a match winner.
His last 2 seasons he has finished 9th and 10th in our best and fairest respectively.
He’s not an all Australian.
He’s not in our leadership group.
He’s an above average AFL footballer

he's saving atleast 2-4 goals a game... our defence is what keeps us competitive. our offence is bottom 4 for points for. ross lyon has traditionally been poor when it comes to offence. so if you're going to weaken the defence by removing him and you don't have a ready made replacement then i think finals will be very hard to do.

 

[Klaatu]

Dalrymple has been a pretty poor with high picks over his time at Sydney but usually redeems himself finding guys like Warner and Dawson late.

Warner's 2019 draft was actually pretty good between 30 and 40. Harrison Jones, Comben, Trent Rivers, Keidean Coleman, Nick Bryan and Chad Warner all went between those picks.

Once again we assumes things give us proof of Dalrymples poor record & didn't you say you wanted the best out there well he,s in the top 3, success at WB & Sydney snapped him up why would Sydney go and get him i'm assuming he's got runs on the board, so that makes him a good recruiter .

 

[_Maximus_12]

he's saving atleast 2-4 goals a game... our defence is what keeps us competitive. our offence is bottom 4 for points for. ross lyon has traditionally been poor when it comes to offence. so if you're going to weaken the defence by removing him and you don't have a ready made replacement then i think finals will be very hard to do.

Your argument implies the person that takes his role won’t prevent a single goal themselves, nor will they have a score involvement.

 

[SteeleSaints]

If SOS is going to pick in Carlton's bin make it Binns.

Why doesnt he (Jaxon Binns) get played at Carlton? The kid just keeps racking them up but seems the last picked. In his draft year he was playing as an endurance beast wingmen, he has signed to 2026 so would take something to get him away from the Blues.

SNAPSHOT: “A hard running wingman/forward who racks up possessions on the outside and can hit the scoreboard.”

One of the hardest runners in this year’s AFL Draft crop is Jaxon Binns. The Dandenong Stingrays prospect has made a name for himself as a prolific outside midfielder, with the capacity to translate his best traits as a high half-forward.

I wonder if he could develop into an outside midfielder - either way RTB loves kids who can run all day?

 

[akaifu]

Why doesnt he (Jaxon Binns) get played at Carlton? The kid just keeps racking them up but seems the last picked. In his draft year he was playing as an endurance beast wingmen, he has signed to 2026 so would take something to get him away from the Blues.

SNAPSHOT: “A hard running wingman/forward who racks up possessions on the outside and can hit the scoreboard.”

One of the hardest runners in this year’s AFL Draft crop is Jaxon Binns. The Dandenong Stingrays prospect has made a name for himself as a prolific outside midfielder, with the capacity to translate his best traits as a high half-forward.

I wonder if he could develop into an outside midfielder - either way RTB loves kids who can run all day?

Because they have Ollie Hollands, Acres, Cottrell

You’d think Carroll gets dropped for him next week

 

[StCicatriz]

Your argument implies the person that takes his role won’t prevent a single goal themselves, nor will they have a score involvement.

correct, i dont think they will have the same impact, based on what I have seen battle do and the scores he has effectively cut off.

similar to how i view wilkie. i actually think we have more options to cover wilkie but i dont think they perform anywhere near his capability so therefore wilkie is harder to replace, than say battle in terms of impact.

i think take battle out and that defence leaks. especially on the transition.

 

[_Maximus_12]

correct, i dont think they will have the same impact, based on what I have seen battle do and the scores he has effectively cut off.

similar to how i view wilkie. i actually think we have more options to cover wilkie but i dont think they perform anywhere near his capability so therefore wilkie is harder to replace, than say battle in terms of impact.

i think take battle out and that defence leaks. especially on the transition.

So you’re essentially playing if battle leaves we are going to play with 17 players on the field and that who ever replaces him will have a negative impact on the group?
Interesting take

 

[StCicatriz]

So you’re essentially playing if battle leaves we are going to play with 17 players on the field and that who ever replaces him will have a negative impact on the group?
Interesting take

of course not that's redic.

but you're kidding your self if you think anyone we bring in will have the same impact. for example take shoenmakers who is being thrown up as an immediate replacement, i spotted atleast 2-3 goals he was responsible for leaking purely because he was not competitive enough in the contest and could not defend his immediate opponent. throw him into the battle role and i think that's an immediate position you start to exploit as an opposition.

 

[_Maximus_12]

of course not that's redic.

but you're kidding your self if you think anyone we bring in will have the same impact. for example take shoenmakers who is being thrown up as an immediate replacement, i spotted atleast 2-3 goals he was responsible for leaking purely because he was not competitive enough in the contest and could not defend his immediate opponent. throw him into the battle role and i think that's an immediate position you start to exploit as an opposition.

I don’t disagree that we don’t have an absolute like for like replacement, but you’re also ignoring the fact we'd be bringing in an additional elite young midfielder that would likely be an upgrade on the fringe players we’ve been rolling through there.
It’s not just a case of Battle out, nothing in.

 

[The Punter]

Genuine question - how long would it take pick 5 mid to regularly produce what Zac Jones did on the weekend?

I would suggest it would not be straight away.

 

[Klaatu]

of course not that's redic.

but you're kidding your self if you think anyone we bring in will have the same impact. for example take shoenmakers who is being thrown up as an immediate replacement, i spotted atleast 2-3 goals he was responsible for leaking purely because he was not competitive enough in the contest and could not defend his immediate opponent. throw him into the battle role and i think that's an immediate position you start to exploit as an opposition.

I'm sure Battle was the same when he went down back or was he an instant success, i don't think so in fact he was played as a forward then a winger then a backman so it takes time & probably was lucky to of got his last contract,many on here wanted him shipped out.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Genuine question - how long would it take pick 5 mid to regularly produce what Zac Jones did on the weekend?

I would suggest it would not be straight away.

Well it’s taken Zac Jones his entire career and he still can’t regularly produce those performances

 

[The Punter]

Well it’s taken Zac Jones his entire career and he still can’t regularly produce those performances

Not an answer to my question.

This is important if it is Battle v compensation pick, and the mid replacing one of the list cloggers.

It might be better in the long run, but if we lose Battle it's hard to see us not going backwards in the short term regardless of draft compensation.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Not an answer to my question.

This is important if it is Battle v compensation pick, and the mid replacing one of the list cloggers.

It might be better in the long run, but if we lose Battle it's hard to see us not going backwards in the short term regardless of draft compensation.

To answer your question I’d say there’s mids in this draft who would be able to replicate Zac Jones output regularly

 

[StCicatriz]

I don’t disagree that we don’t have an absolute like for like replacement, but you’re also ignoring the fact we'd be bringing in an additional elite young midfielder that would likely be an upgrade on the fringe players we’ve been rolling through there.
It’s not just a case of Battle out, nothing in.

who is this young elite mid we will bring in that will be an upgrade on seasoned midfielders? i consider darcy wilson to have many elite traits. his running is really top end elite. he has the wheels to run end to end right now but he's no where near ready to have an impact in the midfield. its going to take the guy another 2 seasons to be effective there and the jury is still out if he can transition into the midfield.

Pou hasn't fully transitioned into the midfield in nearly two seasons.
Owens hasn't.
Windhager is running through there and has shown his capability as a shut down mid who can win his own ball but beyond 1 or 2 games a year he hasn't shown the consistency required to have an impact yet. he's also in his third season at 21.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

he's saving atleast 2-4 goals a game... our defence is what keeps us competitive. our offence is bottom 4 for points for. ross lyon has traditionally been poor when it comes to offence. so if you're going to weaken the defence by removing him and you don't have a ready made replacement then i think finals will be very hard to do.

If Battle is worth close to a mil a season for saving 2-4 goals, Cal Wilkie will be the highest paid player in the league.

 

[akaifu]

Genuine question - how long would it take pick 5 mid to regularly produce what Zac Jones did on the weekend?

I would suggest it would not be straight away.

What’s your point?

 

[StCicatriz]

To answer your question I’d say there’s mids in this draft who would be able to replicate Zac Jones output regularly

you think. who are they?

i'm no zac jones fan but playing as an inside mid is very hard to do. jack steele couldnt do it in two seasons but you think a new draftee will do it in his first. cmon!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

who is this young elite mid we will bring in that will be an upgrade on seasoned midfielders? i consider darcy wilson to have many elite traits. his running is really top end elite. he has the wheels to run end to end right now but he's no where near ready to have an impact in the midfield. its going to take the guy another 2 seasons to be effective there and the jury is still out if he can transition into the midfield.

Pou hasn't fully transitioned into the midfield in nearly two seasons.
Owens hasn't.
Windhager is running through there and has shown his capability as a shut down mid who can win his own ball but beyond 1 or 2 games a year he hasn't shown the consistency required to have an impact yet. he's also in his third season at 21.

The constant message since RTB took over has been that we're going to the draft & building for sustained success. We have no interest in seeking a quick fix that sees us bounce from the lower reaches of the 8 to the bottom constantly.

If you haven't twigged that is the plan then maybe you need to find a new hobby for the next few seasons.

 

[The Punter]

What’s your point?

If Battle leaves, whatever we get, we won't be as good in Round 1 2025 as if we still had Battle.

 

[StCicatriz]

What’s your point?

his point is that whilst a top end draftee will be better in the long run if he works out, its going to take time for him to get there and there will be a short term hit to the performance of the side with the lose of battle even with the acquisition of top end draft talent.

 

[StCicatriz]

The constant message since RTB took over has been that we're going to the draft & building for sustained success. We have no interest in seeking a quick fix that sees us bounce from the lower reaches of the 8 to the bottom constantly.

If you haven't twigged that is the plan then maybe you need to find a new hobby for the next few seasons.

the first sentence is true, but he's also been very vocal about having a dual narrative and the need to be competitive and that we still want to play finals.

If you haven't twigged that is the plan then maybe you need to find a new hobby for the next few seasons.

 

[stavro#4]

Not an answer to my question.

This is important if it is Battle v compensation pick, and the mid replacing one of the list cloggers.

It might be better in the long run, but if we lose Battle it's hard to see us not going backwards in the short term regardless of draft compensation.

In the short term - we most likely aren’t winning a flag.

So it doesn’t really matter.

I’d say in the medium term we need to be positioned to make a move into that contending bracket by the time Tassie is in

And then means being able to back that up for multiple seasons. Not 1 season up and one or multiple down.

 

[stavro#4]

If Battle leaves, whatever we get, we won't be as good in Round 1 2025 as if we still had Battle.

the first sentence is true, but he's also been very vocal about having a dual narrative and the need to be competitive and that we still want to play finals.

If you haven't twigged that is the plan then maybe you need to find a new hobby for the next few seasons.

But we clearly don’t have the cattle to contend.

We didn’t last year. We don’t this year. We have missed the free agents and there isn’t anything on offer that moves us from what we are into a contender for next year.

So why does it matter?

That doesn’t mean writing off 2025. It means that there is a difference in making the 8 and being good enough to win the the thing.

We may achieve one but not the other.

So these kids have time. They don’t need to be guns immediately- would be preferable

 

[_Maximus_12]

who is this young elite mid we will bring in that will be an upgrade on seasoned midfielders? i consider darcy wilson to have many elite traits. his running is really top end elite. he has the wheels to run end to end right now but he's no where near ready to have an impact in the midfield. its going to take the guy another 2 seasons to be effective there and the jury is still out if he can transition into the midfield.

Pou hasn't fully transitioned into the midfield in nearly two seasons.
Owens hasn't.
Windhager is running through there and has shown his capability as a shut down mid who can win his own ball but beyond 1 or 2 games a year he hasn't shown the consistency required to have an impact yet. he's also in his third season at 21.

You’re arguing your point with the exact rationale as to why it’s important to our list build to get high end picks.

That is, because more often than not the best mids are drafted with early picks. Of those you mentioned for us, Phillipou is the earliest and projects to be the best of exposed form.
Windhager is honest and Wilson and Owens haven’t shown they have what it takes to be AFL mids yet.

Any of Jagga Smith, Langford, Reid, Draper and Smilie could come in and have similar impact to Zac Jones across the course of a season.