List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[_Maximus_12]

are you worried about a margin of error here with a top 5 pick?

there’s margin of error with every pick. Chances of landing one elite mid is much better with 2 bites at the cherry.
Drafting isn’t a perfect science but you take there are risks required to rejuvenating our list.
In saying that the second first rounder relies battle leaving for the better offer. He may well stay

 

[_Maximus_12]

I’d give them our second rounder for their first and Oliver.

Ain’t no way I’m touching that ticking bomb for another 6 years and he owed millions without atleast getting a first rounder back


He absolutely hamstrings their cap.

I think they retain him anyway, at least for another 12 months and see if they can get him back to his best. His contract wouldn’t have too many takers at this point

 

[gringo2011]

Did you miss the part where Ross has repeatedly referenced building around a core of NWM, Windy, Owens, Pou, King etc…
Aligns with what you’ve just said.

So when do we challenge again? I've never heard anyone spell out a time line. Are those players mid 20s? Late 20s? Do they wait around until we get back if that's the case?

I assume this core of our youth are Nas and Windhager 21, Owens and Caminiti 20, Phillipou and Schoenmaker 19, Wilson 18. Are all of them going to make it to the absolute top level? Then the maybe's in Garcia, Keeler, Hotton, Collard, Hastie etc.

If they come good in 3 to 4 years they have to go to the level of the guys that will be slowing down and retiring like Marshall, Wilkie, Steele, Hill, Wood, Crouch, Butler etc so we'll be needing to bring in a whole lot of youth and recycled players under them.

The guys that will be out older core are Higgins, Hunter Clark, King, Bonner, Battle, Paton, Sharman, Byrnes, Alison Henry etc.

If we are building around the under 21s we probably need to bottom out for 4 or 5 years and load up because at the moment we have one youth player that looks genuinely well above average in Nas. Wilson and Phillipou look likely to be top level. Owens and Windhager have still got time but are looking less likely to be absolute stars.

To me our best chance is to do a Bulldogs and win one against the tide while that older core is still playing. If we don't I think we are in for another 10 year rebuild. For that to happen we can't lose ground.

 

[stavro#4]

I think they retain him anyway, at least for another 12 months and see if they can get him back to his best. His contract wouldn’t have too many takers at this point

His contract will have even less takers in 12 months.

If they hold him - they are playing pass the parcel with a bomb.

They should be planning on moving him and paying someone for the privilege. It happens in the NBA all the time and you will see it more and more here in the AFL.

 

[StCicatriz]

there’s margin of error with every pick. Chances of landing one elite mid is much better with 2 bites at the cherry.
Drafting isn’t a perfect science but you take there are risks required to rejuvenating our list.
In saying that the second first rounder relies battle leaving for the better offer. He may well stay

So you're saying the pick we get for battle can eventuate to nothing?

 

[stavro#4]

i'd do the pick in a salary dump but i'd want an honest assessment on if his behaviour could impact the younger guys coming through

i don't know if dees fans would be ok with their club doing it

I’ve got videos of him off the rails around Christmas time.

Most definitely does need help.

 

[stavro#4]

So you're saying the pick we get for battle can eventuate to nothing?

And there is also the flipside that Battle will never be worth pick 5/6 - so if you are ever going to make the choice to attain more draft currency. You are trading players who genuinely are worth those picks.

 

[StCicatriz]

His contract will have even less takers in 12 months.

If they hold him - they are playing pass the parcel with a bomb.

They should be planning on moving him and paying someone for the privilege. It happens in the NBA all the time and you will see it more and more here in the AFL.

Tbh I'd hate to see what Oliver would be like with a long term injury. Reckon he's one moment away from really going off the rails again.

 

[StCicatriz]

And there is also the flipside that Battle will never be worth pick 5/6 - so if you are ever going to make the choice to attain more draft currency. You are trading players who genuinely are worth those picks.

That I agree on. Battle will never be worth pick 5 on the open market. It's obviously overs.

But we also don't know if he will get pick 5.

But I still don't think in terms of losing an important cog of the best 22 if we can take that risk. The risk it will get pick 5. The risk we turn pick 5 into a mid that has impact and not another flanker, injury bust or another hunter Clark. Meanwhile the onfield suffers on the hope of an elite mid. The risk we lose more players and can't attract others.

 

[stavro#4]

That I agree on. Battle will never be worth pick 5 on the open market. It's obviously overs.

But we also don't know if he will get pick 5.

But I still don't think in terms of losing an important cog of the best 22 if we can take that risk. The risk it will get pick 5. The risk we turn pick 5 into a mid that has impact and not another flanker, injury bust or another hunter Clark. Meanwhile the onfield suffers on the hope of an elite mid. The risk we lose more players and can't attract others.

We haven’t attracted anyone with all this cap space. So I think we need to stop with the narrative of what might happen. It hasn’t happened even with Battle.

Pick 5 gives hope that it could be a star. That’s enough for some fans.

A number of fans have had enough of being mediocre. So let’s try for being elite

 

[PoppedCorn]

thatd do it for me if we got oliver

id be done
id walk away from 20 plus years of consecutive membership

 

[Diehard Saint]

my hope is we can get them with the draft hand we already have without having to sell off players to get them

Problem is everyone’s going to be trying to do the best they can with Tassie waiting in the wings.
Tough to lose a player we’ve had from the beginning and everyone would be happy to see him stay I think, but I think we need to take the risk. Not everyday we get access to top 5/6 players. And in a midfielders draft - our real need. And hopefully we make it work.

 

[_Maximus_12]

We haven’t attracted anyone with all this cap space. So I think we need to stop with the narrative of what might happen. It hasn’t happened even with Battle.

Pick 5 gives hope that it could be a star. That’s enough for some fans.

A number of fans have had enough of being mediocre. So let’s try for being elite

I’ve had enough of being mediocre. Stop gap fringe players propping us up and preventing us from bringing in elite young talent.
I want a flag. I want a side that rivals 2004-2011.
That’s not coming from this list, there’s a nucleus there but it still lacks the very top end

 

[gringo2011]

there’s margin of error with every pick. Chances of landing one elite mid is much better with 2 bites at the cherry.
Drafting isn’t a perfect science but you take there are risks required to rejuvenating our list.
In saying that the second first rounder relies battle leaving for the better offer. He may well stay

2 picks seems to dilute focus and they **** 2 picks up. Dalrymple's big wins at Sydney have been in picking in the later scraps. He's blown a lot of early picks in his time there but redeemed with stars late in the draft.

2018 Nick Blakey, James Rowbottom, Justin McInerney, Zac Foot

2019 Dylan Stephens, Will Gould, Elijah Taylor, Chad Warner, Brady Rowles and Jack Maibaum.

2020 Braeden Campbell, Errol Gulden, Logan McDonald and Marc Sheather.

2021 Angus Sheldrick, Matthew Roberts, Corey Warner and Lachlan Rankin

2022 Konstanty, Cooper Vickery and Caleb Mitchell.

2023 Green , Cleary , Snell

 

[stavro#4]

2 picks seems to dilute focus and they **** 2 picks up. Dalrymple's big wins at Sydney have been in picking in the later scraps. He's blown a lot of early picks in his time there but redeemed with stars late in the draft.

2018 Nick Blakey, James Rowbottom, Justin McInerney, Zac Foot

2019 Dylan Stephens, Will Gould, Elijah Taylor, Chad Warner, Brady Rowles and Jack Maibaum.

2020 Braeden Campbell, Errol Gulden, Logan McDonald and Marc Sheather.

2021 Angus Sheldrick, Matthew Roberts, Corey Warner and Lachlan Rankin

2022 Konstanty, Cooper Vickery and Caleb Mitchell.

2023 Green , Cleary , Snell

Conveniently forgetting Footscray

 

[StCicatriz]

We haven’t attracted anyone with all this cap space. So I think we need to stop with the narrative of what might happen. It hasn’t happened even with Battle.

Pick 5 gives hope that it could be a star. That’s enough for some fans.

A number of fans have had enough of being mediocre. So let’s try for being elite

that's my argument in reply to those who have mentioned battle's inflated price will hamstrung us into the future and releasing that money allows us to chase a free agent. my argument is that it really doesn't matter and that the net affect of retaining him is greater than the dream of a free agent which isn't happening until we consistently play finals. i.e. i'd rather just pay the extra 200k to keep him than using that money on what we already have i.e. overpaying someone like wilson because we have to spend the money somewhere.

tbh i'm sick of cellar dwelling then being sold this idea we are a pick away from a once in a generation player that will turn the whole ship around. its the goddard sell all over again and i get goddard was pick 12 but its the same type of idea. i'd rather just keep the guy and see what happens.

 

[StCicatriz]

Conveniently forgetting Footscray

does anyone have his record from the dogs?

 

[stavro#4]

that's my argument in reply to those who have mentioned battle's inflated price will hamstrung us into the future and releasing that money allows us to chase a free agent. my argument is that it really doesn't matter and that the net affect of retaining him is greater than the dream of a free agent which isn't happening until we consistently play finals. i.e. i'd rather just pay the extra 200k to keep him than using that money on what we already have i.e. overpaying someone like wilson because we have to spend the money somewhere.

tbh i'm sick of cellar dwelling then being sold this idea we are a pick away from a once in a generation player that will turn the whole ship around. its the goddard sell all over again and i get goddard was pick 12 but its the same type of idea. i'd rather just keep the guy and see what happens.

I think we are cellar dwellers because we lack top end talent.

Top end talent is usually found at the top end of the draft.

We can move a defender who isn’t worth a top first rounder for potentially pick 5.

It’s really simple. Lets try this for change.

 

[Sol Goodman]

Genuine question - how long would it take pick 5 mid to regularly produce what Zac Jones did on the weekend?

I would suggest it would not be straight away.

The other question is how often will Zac produce what he produced vs WC. Its really questionable. But personally I feel if Zac can sustain that level of output we actually need some senior bulk in the midfield while the kids mature.

 

[stavro#4]

does anyone have his record from the dogs?

At the dogs as national recruiting manager from 2010-2018

Western Bulldogs - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[Sol Goodman]

his point is that whilst a top end draftee will be better in the long run if he works out, its going to take time for him to get there and there will be a short term hit to the performance of the side with the lose of battle even with the acquisition of top end draft talent.

Or Shoey and Hammer might improve alot over the preseason and we might not miss him too much. Both scenarios are likely enough.

 

[gringo2011]

Problem is everyone’s going to be trying to do the best they can with Tassie waiting in the wings.
Tough to lose a player we’ve had from the beginning and everyone would be happy to see him stay I think, but I think we need to take the risk. Not everyday we get access to top 5/6 players. And in a midfielders draft - our real need. And hopefully we make it work.

And our first round picks since 2003- Raph Clarke, 2004 McQualter, 2005 Traded for Fergus Watts, 2006 Armo, 2007 McEvoy, 2008 Lynch, 2009 Traded for Lovett, 2010 Cripps, 2011 Saad Milera trade down, 2012 Wright/White and trade out to get Hickey and Lee, 2013 Billings, Dunstan and Acres, 2014 McCartin, Goddard and DMac, 2015 traded out for Carlisle and Gresham, 2016 Traded out to get future pick, 2017 Clark and Coffield, 2018 King, 2019 traded out for Hill etc, 2020 traded out for Higgins and Allison, 2021 Nas, 2022 Phillipou, 2023 Wilson.

In 21 years we have found one absolute blue chip player in Nas and our last 2 are extremely promising but we've sacked the guy that got them. The guy we replaced him with has one good but not outstanding player in his time at Sydney with FRDPs in McDonald.

If I'm a gambling man I'm not putting up my pay cheque.

 

[Sol Goodman]

this i get. olivers contract is looking like an absolute shocker and the off-field issues are very real. i'd stay away.

Could we turn that boat around?

 

[StCicatriz]

At the dogs as national recruiting manager from 2010-2018

Western Bulldogs - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

2010: Wallis F/S, Libba F/S, Jayden Schofield (74), Skinner (88), Tom Hill (89), Dahlhaus (R), Johannisen (R), Ed Barlow (R)

2011: Clay Smith (17), Michael Talia (39), Daniel Pearce (49), Lin Jong (R), Alex Greenwood (R), Jack Redpath (R), Mark Austin (R)

2012: Stringer (5), Macrae (6), Hrovat (21), Hunter F/S, Prudden (50), Brett Goodes (R)

2013: Bontempelli (4), Fuller (42), Honeychurch (60)

2014: McLean (26), Lukas Webb (27), Hamilton (39), Bailey Dale (45), Caleb Daniel (46), Cordy F/S, Roarke Smith (R), Jordan Kelly (R)

2015: Dunkley (25), Keiran Collins (26), Marcus Adams (35), Bailey Williams (48), Bradley Lynch (R), Luke Goetz (R), Jed Adock (R)

2016: English (19), Lipinski (28), Lewis Young (49), Fergus Greene (70)

2017: Naughton (9), Ed Richards (16), Callum Porter (74), Gowers (R)

left for swans feb 2018

my take on it is that he's benefited from the father sons... he's found some quality in the rookie draft early on but then started to really nail his first picks. he still seemed to find them just not at the same level as his last handful of years at the dogs.

Stringer, Macrae, Bont, Dunkley, Naughton and English.

what is interesting is that the dogs couldnt retain some of what he drafted in Stringer, Dunkley but there's also other guys in there that jumped. like marcus adams.

it's interesting that in his time at the swans he couldn't recreate the same first round hit rate with his mids.

 

[gubby88]

And what would they give us for the pleasure of the leagues worst contract.

herpes

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