List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Diehard Saint]

To me its a lot to do with gambling instead of doing the sensible boring stuff. No guts sounds good but we got here by doing just what you are asking for. Trying to cheat a self levelling system makes natural progression slower. There are heaps more sides that have stayed down for years by refusing to do the hard work first.

A really good list manager would be a really good investment IMO. Gubby and Sos are experienced but not necessarily top shelf. Sos has built lists from the bottom of the ladder. It's architecturally harder from mid table but like Richmond and others that have jumped sometimes a few very tailored pieces are enough to boost up.

I'd say it's a good era to attack with very few outstanding sides dominating. If we build over 5 years we are hoping to be up when sides like North, West Coast and Hawks should be dominating the landscape. Even Brisbane and Sydney have lots of youth to push up higher.

Gringo, we need to take risks. And I never gamble. Very seldom even take a Tatts ticket. The point is, it’s not a self-levelling system, and there is nothing equal about it.

We do not get the benefits of so many of the other clubs, be it fixtures, big games, nga’s etc. It’s well documented.

And honestly, at this stage, I’d rather give it a go than die wondering.
At the end of the day, much as I love it, this is a game to me. My life does not depend on getting a premiership. We have to try and make our own luck.

 

[St Neil]

Mitch Cleary saying on Tradies podcast that if we were to take on Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

's 6-year contract with $1mil/year, we wouldn't have to give up a top 10 pick

Correct.

Melbourne would have to give us a top 10 draft pick. And pay a chunk of his salary.

His 6 contract is worth $10m plus indexation based on growth on the salary cap.

The worst contract in the history of football.

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo, we need to take risks. And I never gamble. Very seldom even take a Tatts ticket. The point is, it’s not a self-levelling system, and there is nothing equal about it.

We do not get the benefits of so many of the other clubs, be it fixtures, big games, nga’s etc. It’s well documented.

And honestly, at this stage, I’d rather give it a go than die wondering.
At the end of the day, much as I love it, this is a game to me. My life does not depend on getting a premiership. We have to try and make our own luck.

You literally don't have to gamble. You can go backwards just as easily as go forward. To me the list isn't that bad and injury cost us but shouldn't be an excuse to drop down and start again. Losing guys like Battle have very real impact on our near future.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

i'm not arguing against the draft. we already have a good draft hand and we have good set of younger players to work with.

i'm not arguing that we finish 9th for a decade either.

i've outlined very clearly what i feel the argument is for keeping battle in terms of cap space, free agency, ladder position, player retention, player development and the draft.

if you can't make sense of it then i can't help you with that.

You’re right, I can’t make sense of what you’re saying other than give Battle a blank cheque.

Which ironically will cause issues with retaining player that we desperately need to keep.


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[St Neil]

He’s a great player and we’re instantly a much better team in theory. In practice with a lot of youth he’d need to be a fully committed new man and you’re still walking a tightrope. His contract must be an absolute shocker or we wouldn’t even be talking about this. I’m guessing you can forget inserting anything into it or Melbourne would have.

I still think if he moves it will be down the highway to Geelong.

Geelong won’t touch his contract.

They have a history of not over paying for any one player. They share the load in their salary cap.

Oliver can only be off-loaded to clubs with substantial cap room. Saints, North, Crows, Hawks, Eagles.

He won’t go to WA. SA very unlikely. The options are limited.

I doubt Melbourne will be able to take Oliver off their books. If they do then their first round pick needs to be involved. And they will need to contribute to pay part of his salary.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Joe Biden was probably pretty good before 2018 too. He did well at the Dogs for sure but he hasn't been great recently.

You’ve been on about getting Dalrymple for years.

Now he’s with us he’s no good.

Reckon there’s something in that.


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[SaintsSeptember]

We need to explore all avenues, we've been good in the Rookie draft lately, for the best part of a decade we sucked at it.
We brought in Holmes at the same time Collingwood got Cox. No he's not the GOAT but he's been useful.
Geelong found Bliclavs somewhere where athletic guys hang out.
We nearly found an irish guy. ( He's still on a list ).
We let Biggy go, he's still on a list.
Not sure if our development is good enough for some of these guys.

 

[gringo2011]

You’ve been on about getting Dalrymple for years.

Now he’s with us he’s no good.

Reckon there’s something in that.


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So? I also liked Toce's work over the last few years. I still have hope for Dalrymple but not going to pretend his work at Sydney is outstanding. He hasn't had great form since leaving the Dogs. I've given him a few outs but he needs to perform like he did 10 years ago. We can't afford to get this wrong. We **** this up and it's going to be a long road forward.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Geelong won’t touch his contract.

They have a history of not over paying for any one player. They share the load in their salary cap.

Oliver can only be off-loaded to clubs with substantial cap room. Saints, North, Crows, Hawks, Eagles.

He won’t go to WA. SA very unlikely. The options are limited.

I doubt Melbourne will be able to take Oliver off their books. If they do then their first round pick needs to be involved. And they will need to contribute to pay part of his salary.

They got paid a first round draft pick to take Bowes. :/
I feel a bit sick due to the fact that i think he's played some good games. Probably better than Dow.

 

[gubby88]

You’ve been on about getting Dalrymple for years.

Now he’s with us he’s no good.

Reckon there’s something in that.


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same as him potting the list, now he reckons its fine...

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[gringo2011]

We need to explore all avenues, we've been good in the Rookie draft lately, for the best part of a decade we sucked at it.
We brought in Holmes at the same time Collingwood got Cox. No he's not the GOAT but he's been useful.
Geelong found Bliclavs somewhere where athletic guys hang out.
We nearly found an irish guy. ( He's still on a list ).
We let Biggy go, he's still on a list.
Not sure if our development is good enough for some of these guys.

We get impatient and run off after new shiny things. We struggle to work out who to persist with and who to cut.

 

[gubby88]

We get impatient and run off after new shiny things. We struggle to work out who to persist with and who to cut.

who does?

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[gringo2011]

same as him potting the list, now he reckons its fine...

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The list is as good as it's been for years. I've said we need high end players. I'm consistent unlike you micro-***** that pot my posts instead of adding anything. The injuries cost us this year with the forwards and mids, especially Crouch.

You want to bottom out again to protect your cult leader but he needs to step up or **** off if he wants to take us down.

 

[StCicatriz]

You’re right, I can’t make sense of what you’re saying other than give Battle a blank cheque.

Which ironically will cause issues with retaining player that we desperately need to keep.


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why would it? clubs can retain any player they want.. hence the trend of 7 year deals when their cap is tight.

its not a blank cheque either.

by all accounts its at most a 200k difference. its hardly going to stop us re-signing whom ever we want too. if it is we have much larger issues at play.

if your take away from the 10+ post on it is "give battle a blank cheque", i'm not surprised you can't understand it. it appears reading compression is about as natural to you as taking pick 1 to the draft for list management committee of Trout/Libba/Ameet and Finnis.

 

[StCicatriz]

Put me on ignore moron.

i'd ignore him. he's still defending Trout, Libba, Cox, Gags, Lethlean, Finnis.

it's amazing we are where we are at given how amazing everyone was.

 

[StCicatriz]

Clubs that want to stump up a lot for a player just skim $50k off a few lower contracts. Just means guys like Owens gets $500k for potential over $550k.

maybe we should offer someone like cordy 100k less then.... maybe we shouldn't be paying melbourne for billings.

 

[stavro#4]

SAINTS COACH ‘REALLY COMFORTABLE’ WITH FREE AGENT’S STATUS

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon “doesn’t believe the media narrative” that Hawthorn is the strong front-runner to land free agent defender Josh Battle this trade period.

With the free agency market shrinking by the week, Battle looms as one of the top players on offer, with the Hawks, Collingwood and Melbourne all showing interest in the backman.


It has been suggested the Hawthorn offer is for six years and could be at a high enough salary, over the $900,000 a year mark, to land the Saints first-round compensation.

While Lyon didn’t outright state he expects Battle to stay at Moorabbin, he told Fox Footy’s AFL 360 he’s “really comfortable” with his relationship with the 25-year-old.

“I just live in process. Create the environment, coach him well - Corey Enright’s the half-back whisperer and developed him pretty well … I just coach week-to-week, I never really engage in player contracts,” Lyon said on Fox Footy.

“I build my relationships, there’s lots of moving pieces. I don’t believe all the media narrative. I haven’t initiated any conversations with Josh - Josh has certainly initiated some with me - but I give them their space and enjoy the ride. It’s part of it. Build it and they’ll come - that’s the space I live in.”

Asked if there was any awkwardness, Lyon said: “No not one iota. We’re an incredibly strong player-coach relationship. There’s always a lot of moving pieces underneath that you guys wouldn’t see - particularly with Josh - so I’m really comfortable.”

 

[_Maximus_12]

And just like that, I’ve had confirmation that Oliver has toured Moorabbin. Enjoy the next 2 months of speculation men and women.

 

[gubby88]

And just like that, I’ve had confirmation that Oliver has toured Moorabbin. Enjoy the next 2 months of speculation men and women.

really?

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[Diehard Saint]

You literally don't have to gamble. You can go backwards just as easily as go forward. To me the list isn't that bad and injury cost us but shouldn't be an excuse to drop down and start again. Losing guys like Battle have very real impact on our near future.

One top ten pick a year is not going to cut it. And if we do better next year as can be expected with hopefully a better injury toll, definitely an easier draw, then chances are we don't even get another and if we do make finals, then it’s not even another top ten pick.

You’re not even a little worried with the years of compromised draft picks when Tassie comes in? Well I am, we’ve been there and done that. If we have the opportunity for 2 top picks this year, I’m taking them. And especially as they’re mids.

 

[Teflon]

Because based on his last 6 weeks of football he presents as a better option than Ross and there are some serious queries on Crouch returning right now.

Irrespective of this boards perception of Shiel, he is still averaging 25 disposals in the last 3 weeks at AFL level. He is probably slower than his pomp but he still exited front of stoppage from watching Friday night. He still managed to find the football okay - even with some moments he probably would want back.

I’m not talking him up as a star. I think as a footballer he is more valuable than some of our older heads and that’s how I’m viewing it.

If it cost more than a lollie wrapper I’d be fuming.

It’ll cost cause he takes a list
Is constantly injured
And you’re trying to sell the clubs “logic” off the back of 3 supposed good games…
Cmon..

 

[stavro#4]

It’ll cost cause he takes a list
Is constantly injured
And you’re trying to sell the clubs “logic” off the back of 3 supposed good games…
Cmon..

Those 3 games are a reasonable window into what they would see.

He was injured. Now he isn’t.

If it happens. It will be a shuffle of picks.

 

[gringo2011]

One top ten pick a year is not going to cut it. And if we do better next year as can be expected with hopefully a better injury toll, definitely an easier draw, then chances are we don't even get another and if we do make finals, then it’s not even another top ten pick.

You’re not even a little worried with the years of compromised draft picks when Tassie comes in? Well I am, we’ve been there and done that. If we have the opportunity for 2 top picks this year, I’m taking them. And especially as they’re mids.

You have to get your picks right. We used to trade away second round picks and try to find bargains. If you've got too many pots on the boil you can burn everything.

These guys are thorough. I remember them saying that Dalrymple and Beatson interviewed Chad Warner's teachers, coaches and family. And he was a pick in the 30s.

I'd rather they are 100% fixed on nailing that one we do have and our Adelaide second rounder. This draft will have good players there.

 

[gringo2011]

Those 3 games are a reasonable window into what they would see.

He was injured. Now he isn’t.

If it happens. It will be a shuffle of picks.

But his whole time at Essendon he's been injured or coming back from injury. He's 32 so not likely to all of a sudden have a miracle recovery.

 

[Diehard Saint]

You have to get your picks right. We used to trade away second round picks and try to find bargains. If you've got too many pots on the boil you can burn everything.

These guys are thorough. I remember them saying that Dalrymple and Beatson interviewed Chad Warner's teachers, coaches and family. And he was a pick in the 30s.

I'd rather they are 100% fixed on nailing that one we do have and our Adelaide second rounder. This draft will have good players there.

It’s a hard one.
Look at us, even we can’t agree. I’d say around half/half judging by the posts.
Anyway, Josh will possibly stay and the whole thing will be moot and we would have wasted hours on here debating