List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[stavro#4]

But his whole time at Essendon he's been injured or coming back from injury. He's 32 so not likely to all of a sudden have a miracle recovery.

You are right he is 32.

It’s not like he is going to be walk up start expected to play 23 games.

 

[akaifu]

But his whole time at Essendon he's been injured or coming back from injury. He's 32 so not likely to all of a sudden have a miracle recovery.

I think what matters at this point is that he's fit now and has the opportunity to prove that he can remain fit for the rest of the season (2 months of football)

If he can do so, then it'd make sense to have a look

If he breaks down, then call it and move on. Happy days

So we really do just have to reserve judgement until post-season

 

[Diehard Saint]

You have to get your picks right. We used to trade away second round picks and try to find bargains. If you've got too many pots on the boil you can burn everything.

These guys are thorough. I remember them saying that Dalrymple and Beatson interviewed Chad Warner's teachers, coaches and family. And he was a pick in the 30s.

I'd rather they are 100% fixed on nailing that one we do have and our Adelaide second rounder. This draft will have good players there.

Great to hear they are so thorough. Obviously organised.
I reckon they’d be able to concentrate on 2.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

It’s a hard one.
Look at us, even we can’t agree. I’d say around half/half judging by the posts.
Anyway, Josh will possibly stay and the whole thing will be moot and we would have wasted hours on here debating

Hours…try months

 

[StCicatriz]

And just like that, I’ve had confirmation that Oliver has toured Moorabbin. Enjoy the next 2 months of speculation men and women.

Moorabbin or St kilda? Hahaha

 

[Spider Eater]

We haven't had a great track record. Ross Lyon had a couple of absolute shockers at Freo and Lovett was on his watch too.

This was true gringo2011... good pick-up.

 

[SteeleSaints]

correct, i dont think they will have the same impact, based on what I have seen battle do and the scores he has effectively cut off.

similar to how i view wilkie. i actually think we have more options to cover wilkie but i dont think they perform anywhere near his capability so therefore wilkie is harder to replace, than say battle in terms of impact.

i think take battle out and that defence leaks. especially on the transition.

I had the same mindset as you up until a few weeks ago. We have all said for years we desparately need elite midfielders or we won't he able to compete with the best. I also hate losing quality players, but the club have tried to attract free agents without sucess, so they are now going down the only path available to them. Given the reality of our situation the club have made the tough decision to be prepared lose Josh in lieu of an early draft pick. I doubt very much they would be happy to lose him in any other circumstances other than this.

Im sure he has been fully informed on where the club stands and knows he is leaving for the benefit of both and is pragmantic about it. His form hasn't dropped off, if anything it has improved as the season has progressed so he is happy with the decision it would seem.

Do the club think they have immediate cover for Josh, I very much doubt it. But I think they are prepared to take a hit next year why the find another 3rd tall defender. In the interim they will continue to develop the kids and at some stage in the next year or three, hope that the group mature and start to gel. Given our financial position its a ballsy move, but it's one I think we have to take if we are ever going to break the cycle.

Perhaps it's a move they might not have made in different draft years, but with this years midfield group they feel their odds of grabbing our next two premiership midfielders is much better.

It sucks because it is the club conceding they are not going to be genuine contenders for sometime, while no doubt Josh will go on to play plenty of finals with Hawthorn. We will be just have to be happy in the knowledge that at some stage letting Josh go will help us get over that final hurdle.

I'm also confident the club will have a plan to fill the current list holes as quickly as possible. If it means we get a couple of stop gap players to keep us reasonably competitive until the kids blossom, we can do nothing but hope they pull the right levers! If anything we can have faith that SOS was behinds Carltons rebuild, Gubby helped with the GWS list build and Dalrymple won a flag at the Bulldogs and most likely this year with the Swans.

 

[PandaG]

A little bit of Josh Battle trivia here folks.

Does anyone remember the pic taken of Josh hanging out the drivers window of his bright green VY SS Commodore Sedan.....just after he was drafted in the 2016 draft?

He was copping heaps as his nickname at the time naturally was "Kermit the Frog"

You mean this guy..?

 

[BigMonty]

Nailing frdp is just soo important.
Trac rather than Paddy and Bont instead of Billings and we are a vwey different team.

We proved last year that our good is okay and this year our good can beat premiers and flag favourites.

If we can bottom out with 2 top 5 picks this year and maybe something similar next. Then we have a heap of frdp (7 if I count right) maturing at the right time.

If Dalrymple can ace a few late picks we are there or thereabouts. Just needs a slice of luck. Wilkie Fisher Marshall Sincs are where you really win in the draft, get 3 A graders from effectively nothing is where ladder success comes from. Need more of that Caminti and Shooey look like that, Keeler and Garcia were late picks as well....time will tell.

In a league like the AFL there are 4 to 6 teams that are contending the next 8 teams working out are they going up or going down and 4 to 6 resigned to bottoming out. That's the reality. Every year. There can only be one premier from 18 teams...no matter how good you are, if there is one better you are nowhere...no one remembers second.

Picking one frdp each year perpetuates a mid tier cycle, Geelong are fading as is Melbourne and probably Pies. They all face the conundrum of having to let champions of the club go which creates a list vacuum not seen for 12 years. Hawkins Danger Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

May Pendles Sidey etc, they have been soo good for so long now all those lists have to go through the trial process to get the next batch. Tompus, Watts etc.....it will take time.

Saints are building a rump of good young players we need to just keep adding and we see how we go.

Losing Battle refreshes the list a smart way, reckon its a win for the Hawks as well I get Gibson vibes... and Saints get first pick of the litter.

King said today contending teams need the 3rd wheel midfielder heading into finals. Heeney dropping off is coincidental with Swans losing is an interesting watch.

Who do we have Steele Sincs, and that's it. Add 2 picks this year Pou Wilson and a few more frdps over the next 3 years time and we will have a chance to have that 3rd wheel.

Keep Battle and we just never get the rump....games are won in the mid field we need quality and not a 3rd intercept defender.

Stats show more quality comes from the higher you are in the draft....simples

Go Saints be patient...it's happening






On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

correct, shiel won't be a walk up start...he'll prob be injuried.

 

[Southeastsainter]

The Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

debate has gotten delusional. The guy is a solid AFL player, to pay someone nearly $1 million per season just because “he’s one of ours” is ridiculous. He’s never made an AA squad of 40, our backline isn’t just going to implode if he isn’t there next year.

We are starved of top end talent (especially in the midfield) if we get pick 5 or 6 whatever as compo, it would be insane to suggest it’s not a great outcome.

Never seen so many negative comments about potentially getting a top 5 pick.

Seems as if we offered him a very good $ contract, he wants another 50-100k a year then thanks for your service Josh, will take pick 5.

 

[MrFoster]

The Josh Battle debate has gotten delusional. The guy is a solid AFL player, to pay someone nearly $1 million per season just because “he’s one of ours” is ridiculous. He’s never made an AA squad of 40, our backline isn’t just going to implode if he isn’t there next year.

We are starved of top end talent (especially in the midfield) if we get pick 5 or 6 whatever as compo, it would be insane to suggest it’s not a great outcome.

Never seen so many negative comments about potentially getting a top 5 pick.

Seems as if we offered him a very good $ contract, he wants another 50-100k a year then thanks for your service Josh, will take pick 5.

If we try nothing and just take our normal pick each round, changes nothing, we’re still a middle of the road team, maybe even worse with our poor midfield.

If we try a couple of things, let Battle walk for band 1 comp, then through shrewd trading bring in another couple of young mids / defender / ruck, we can fix our holes and improve a lot quicker. Obviously there is no guarantees in life, but I’d rather give ourselves a chance to be a lot better, not just standing still.

 

[tomjoad]

Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

...this one's for you.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Josh Battle...this one's for you.

"If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double."

Sums up the Saints big footy discussion about Josh beautifully.

 

[jimmytigs]

honestly it feels like ground hog day.

it took me page 319 to this on 323 for it to hit me

did some smartass import a heap of posts re battle from a month or two ago?because im sure im reading all the same stuff over again

like a trick my old man used to play on his workmate,putting the cover of todays herald sun on yesterdays or last weeks,then watching as he gradually worked it out that he had read all that before

well 4 pages of same exact conversation from a month or 2 ago,congrats,you got me,whoever it was

 

[beside the seaside]

SAINTS COACH ‘REALLY COMFORTABLE’ WITH FREE AGENT’S STATUS

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon “doesn’t believe the media narrative” that Hawthorn is the strong front-runner to land free agent defender Josh Battle this trade period.

With the free agency market shrinking by the week, Battle looms as one of the top players on offer, with the Hawks, Collingwood and Melbourne all showing interest in the backman.


It has been suggested the Hawthorn offer is for six years and could be at a high enough salary, over the $900,000 a year mark, to land the Saints first-round compensation.

While Lyon didn’t outright state he expects Battle to stay at Moorabbin, he told Fox Footy’s AFL 360 he’s “really comfortable” with his relationship with the 25-year-old.

“I just live in process. Create the environment, coach him well - Corey Enright’s the half-back whisperer and developed him pretty well … I just coach week-to-week, I never really engage in player contracts,” Lyon said on Fox Footy.

“I build my relationships, there’s lots of moving pieces. I don’t believe all the media narrative. I haven’t initiated any conversations with Josh - Josh has certainly initiated some with me - but I give them their space and enjoy the ride. It’s part of it. Build it and they’ll come - that’s the space I live in.”

Asked if there was any awkwardness, Lyon said: “No not one iota. We’re an incredibly strong player-coach relationship. There’s always a lot of moving pieces underneath that you guys wouldn’t see - particularly with Josh - so I’m really comfortable.”

Almost identical to what he said about Gresh last year.

Feels like what he's saying is we're happy to see him go for band one.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Looking forward to the melts if we don’t increase our offer to Battle and he walks, but we take Oliver’s contract as a salary dump

 

[Yawkey way]

Geelong won’t touch his contract.

They have a history of not over paying for any one player. They share the load in their salary cap.

Oliver can only be off-loaded to clubs with substantial cap room. Saints, North, Crows, Hawks, Eagles.

He won’t go to WA. SA very unlikely. The options are limited.

I doubt Melbourne will be able to take Oliver off their books. If they do then their first round pick needs to be involved. And they will need to contribute to pay part of his salary.

Melbourne will end up picking up a fair chunk of his salary so I don’t think it’s what will ultimately stop a side taking him on.

 

[Saint Watto]

You mean this guy..?
View attachment 2056241

Superb detective work there PG.

Impressive........to say the least.

Josh is looking a million bucks in his Haileybury blazer.

You'd think he would have wound the window up driving down the sweeping driveway at the front of the college.

Image all the s*** flying his way driving a car like that at his age.......and just after being drafted.

 

[gringo2011]

One top ten pick a year is not going to cut it. And if we do better next year as can be expected with hopefully a better injury toll, definitely an easier draw, then chances are we don't even get another and if we do make finals, then it’s not even another top ten pick.

You’re not even a little worried with the years of compromised draft picks when Tassie comes in? Well I am, we’ve been there and done that. If we have the opportunity for 2 top picks this year, I’m taking them. And especially as they’re mids.

I'd say we did more in the last 2 years at the draft with picks 18 and 10 than most of the previous 20 years. Even Schoenmaker and Garcia look better than a lot of our high picks.

Adelaide did more taking Jordan Dawson and Rankine than all their drafting with high picks. Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney have been creative and barely been out of finals for decades.

Getting drafting right, targeting high end players and looking around alternative pathways will get you up the ladder quicker than finding a few extra high picks. 2 high picks likely take 3 to 5 years to get to a point where they are at high output. At that point all our old guys are going backwards or gone and we are still rebuilding.

If you are sending one good player out hoping to get an upgrade you are unlikely to send the needle significantly forward. I don't rate Geelong or Collingwood the best lists but they were the best sides with the best system in their premiership years. We need a fit solid midfield and forward line to step forward and keep trying to pick off high end players. We are more likely to attract good FAs by looking close than bottoming out and offering big dollars.

Six and out: The history of footy's 'cursed' draft pick

Pick No.6 has seen more than its share of draft flops - but things are finally looking up

www.afl.com.au

 

[gringo2011]

You are right he is 32.

It’s not like he is going to be walk up start expected to play 23 games.

So we are doing it to help Essendon manage their cap? I honestly can't see any benefit for St Kilda. Are they giving us a pick to salary dump him?

 

[gringo2011]

I think what matters at this point is that he's fit now and has the opportunity to prove that he can remain fit for the rest of the season (2 months of football)

If he can do so, then it'd make sense to have a look

If he breaks down, then call it and move on. Happy days

So we really do just have to reserve judgement until post-season

His whole career has been injury prone. 2 months does nothing. If we are doing it for charity I get it. Maybe Essendon will let us have Dyson Heppell's dreadlocks to put in our trophy cabinet.

 

[Klaatu]

So we are doing it to help Essendon manage their cap? I honestly can't see any benefit for St Kilda. Are they giving us a pick to salary dump him?

Yeah not sure whats the benefit is to us, unless we made a deal last year with Gresham/Ess & us on dollars who know's.

 

[luca77]

Looking forward to the melts if we don’t increase our offer to Battle and he walks, but we take Oliver’s contract as a salary dump

They won't last long if we end up with two early picks AND Oliver. Midfield fixed.
Yeah there are risks and balances to be made but still ...

 

[Yawkey way]

Does it make you a middling side for another 4 years and not able to draft in the sweet spot? It sounds like we still don't know where we are still.

I think we have a very clear path and the club has actually been pretty upfront about that. This Oliver story is just the usual media click bait and we’re just speculating on the possible pros and cons. You know how this game is played gringo everything is treated as possible if not fact and we all rant and rave accordingly.

At the end of the day we’ll take our picks to the draft, maybe bring in one or two low cost in trade terms pick ups and won’t cut nearly as hard as some seem to think.

I get the frustration but I don’t get the drama. We weren’t and still aren’t a genuine flag threat and obviously need to add to our core of young guys who will take us forward. You can’t top up from where we were, 1 maybe 2 draft picks if you use a future, no AA free agents and so on.

I’m happy enough either way with the battle situation assuming we get the compensation we want. If the circumstance are right I’d be happy enough to move Steele on as well. A lot of ifs involved but if we got the right offer and if we could grab an experienced older stop gap I’d do it. Load up in this draft, stay competitive and keep building towards a team that can win a flag. I’m not touching any of the other older guys as hitting rock bottom isn’t an option and I see them for a variety of reasons as more important that Steele.

If we have 4/5 I’d even consider splitting 5 depending on who we take at 4, great draft to have multiple first round picks imo.