List Mgmt. 2025 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Mostyn]

I bet you will change your mind on that if ROB gets hurt and we have to play Shirley Stratchan for an extended period.

Maybe.

I don't really rate ruckmen, so I wouldn't be too fussed if we ran a part timer through there.

 

[BRL121]

I bet you will change your mind on that if ROB gets hurt and we have to play Shirley Stratchan for an extended period.

So you would play Dodson if ROB gets injured next year?

 

[Mutineer]

I think Reid is pretty widely considered one of the better list managers.

I agree that we should have really freed up at least one more spot, but I'm not going to lose sleep over missing out on someone taken at pick 53.

I'm in the team that thinks that this post will likely come back to haunt you.

 

[relapse]

So you would play Dodson if ROB gets injured next year?

Hell I'd even put myself out there before Stratchan.

Dodson would get massacred no doubt, however he's more mobile than Stratchan and would be learning and developing. He'd be a better option as a 18-19 kid than Stratchan is at 30.

 

[GameofSloanes]

I bet you will change your mind on that if ROB gets hurt and we have to play Shirley Stratchan for an extended period.

He'd still be better than an 18 year old next year

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So effective list changes...

Ins - Outs
T Murray - Himmelberg
ANB - McHenry
Cumming - Hamill
Peatling - Parnell
Draper - Sloane
Welsh - Gollant

3-4 1st choice players in, none out (Sloane was injured).

Far more depth for next season, particularly midfield/flanks.

 

[FR0GGY]

The problem is we’ll be changing/sorting out the ruck in the middle of trying to contend.

 

[Vladdy Daddy]

So effective list changes...

Ins - Outs
T Murray - Himmelberg
ANB - McHenry
Cumming - Hamill
Peatling - Parnell
Draper - Sloane
Welsh - Gollant

3-4 1st choice players in, none out (Sloane was injured).

Far more depth for next season, particularly midfield/flanks.

Agreed.

…add a handful of this bunch to go to the next level and we’re looking solid —> Berry ,Curtin, Pedlar, Cook, Edwards, Taylor, Dowling, Ryan, Bond, Schoenberg

 

[rabidcrow]

Senior list spots do we?. Can’t get Dodson and Welsh tonight

Welsh tonight. Dodson ideally rookie draft

I know this was all done and dusted but didn’t we have three list spots - as mandatory, when entering the draft? So Draper, Welsh and assume the other spot is to upgrade Keane?

So we could have used the Keane spot for Dodson, not upgraded Keane and paid out Burgess - theoretically?


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[Big Dub]

The problem is we’ll be changing/sorting out the ruck in the middle of trying to contend.

Clearly not ideal.

But if we take a glass half full approach, our midfield was a more pressing concern, until

1. Rankine started looking like a gun mid
2. Soligo started looking like a gun mid
3. We got Peatling
4. We drafted Draper

We also had a rubbish backline, until

1. We got Keane
2. Murray returned
3. We drafted Curtin (put him in the list above if you don't think he'll be our most damaging back third player in 3 years time)
4. We drafted Cheddar and Ryan and Bond started looking like a small forwards worst nightmare and not a dud

So now that ruck is our most pressing need (IMHO), we should start throwing our resources at this problem.

OK, sure. We could have taken a balanced approach to our problems, and tried to address them all as we went. But here we are.

I refer to my first line.

 

[latinoheat]

I know this was all done and dusted but didn’t we have three list spots - as mandatory, when entering the draft? So Draper, Welsh and assume the other spot is to upgrade Keane?

So we could have used the Keane spot for Dodson, not upgraded Keane and paid out Burgess - theoretically?


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Yes , if we wanted to and had salary cap room in 2024 , we could have paid out burgess and drafted Dodson

 

[Big Dub]

Yes , if we wanted to and had salary cap room in 2024 , we could have paid out burgess and drafted Dodson

Vader Is this true?

(Sorry, seems like a thing now that you have to explain this - and not a go at you latinoheat )

 

[George Kramer]

Meh - ROB has played 44 of 46 games the past 2 seasons. He was dropped once for 2 games.

Bring in another average ruckman for him. Play Strachan. Give a 3rd rounder for some other ruckman for 2026.

It doesn't really bloody matter. Just get someone semi-capable and we will be just fine. Shit - maybe bring in Darcy Fort, Mason Cox, Tom Hickey, Nank or Nathan Vardy. They were all good enough to win a premiership medal as lead ruckman on grand final day.

No, he was dropped for 2 games in 2024, 2 games in 2022

Do you think as a leader he was dropped after one bad game, 2,3,4 or 5?

Sure bring in another ruckman for him, the issue is we didn’t and we are stuck with him again in 2025.

You also brought up Draper before as someone we are after and yet you’re not advocating paying him a lot, so is he coming over as he likes doing belly flops on AO?

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Do we need to play 3 key forwards? How many recent premiers structure up like that? I'd have thought running power and ground ball pressure is more important than out heighting opposition. But we are definitely rigid in what we believe to be the ideal structure. We'll play a piss poor pressure forward just so we've got someone playing the designated role.

A decent number play 3 talls , even if the 3rd tall is more of role player.

Even the ones that play 2 talls usually play 2 rucks or someone like Blicavs.

Richmond 2017 was the exception not the rule.

 

[Vader]

I know this was all done and dusted but didn’t we have three list spots - as mandatory, when entering the draft? So Draper, Welsh and assume the other spot is to upgrade Keane?

Yes

So we could have used the Keane spot for Dodson, not upgraded Keane and paid out Burgess - theoretically?

No

For the 584th time this week.

 

[Vader]

Yes , if we wanted to and had salary cap room in 2024 , we could have paid out burgess and drafted Dodson

Yes... but that decision had to be made ages ago. Once we committed to re-drafting Burgess, we were (as they say) committed to that course of action.

Changing course mid-draft was not an option. That decision had to be made before we delisted them, 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[spenze]

"Shouldn't draft a ruck, they take 5-7 years"

Crows have Himmelberg on list for...

 

[George Kramer]

"Shouldn't draft a ruck, they take 5-7 years"

Crows have Himmelberg on list for...

Yep, that’s the thing, we are always carrying players who won’t make it, very rare a draftee doesn’t earn another contract. So it’s at least 4-5 years of taking up a list spot before we cut them, Himmelberg, Gollant, Ned for example.

But we can’t have one developing ruck, posters are acting as if we want to carry 3 like Collingwood, 2 like Geelong.

 

[AFC979810]

No, he was dropped for 2 games in 2024, 2 games in 2022

Whats this no about. Over the last two seasons 2023 / 2024 he was dropped once for 2 games.

Do you think as a leader he was dropped after one bad game, 2,3,4 or 5?

Definitely a bunch of bad games.

Sure bring in another ruckman for him, the issue is we didn’t and we are stuck with him again in 2025.

Meh - He is an average ruckman. We will be just fine with him rucking in 2025. The position doesn't matter.

You also brought up Draper before as someone we are after and yet you’re not advocating paying him a lot, so is he coming over as he likes doing belly flops on AO?

I brought up Draper as one of 10+ ruckman that are OOC and we could look at. My preference would be to not get him because he will waste a lot of salary cap at an unimportant position. I think if we dont re-sign ROB at a cheaper contract then we give up a 3rd for another average Ruck or two and draft one.

 

[AFC979810]

I suspect they'd be on more than that - probably $300-400K.

Interesting.

If the salary cap is at $14.7 million. That makes a list average of 367k. You would think that players like Burgess would be on a fair bit less than the average?

I also suspect that we shuffled contracts forward, bringing future payments into 2024, in order to maximise our future caps - which allowed us to attract ANB, Peatling & Cumming.

You can't really have it both ways - shuffling payments right to payout delisted players, while also shuffling payments left to make room for trade & free agents.

Yes you can. You can shuffle the cap - the good teams do it. Kick the can down the road.

Moving the payments left would have happened first, before they made the frustrating/boneheaded list management decisions (Smith/Berry/Cook) which would have required payouts to negate.

October is too late to be re-negotiating contracts, as the money has already been paid.

The Salary for Burgess and Schoenberg for 2025 has already been paid? Surely not.

 

[AFC979810]

The problem is we’ll be changing/sorting out the ruck in the middle of trying to contend.

Why is that a problem. Thats what premiership teams have done over the past 10 years....

Richmond brought in Nank in 2017 for their run. Sydney brought in Hickey 1 season before their GF and Grundy the same year they made the GF.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Why is that a problem. Thats what premiership teams have done over the past 10 years....

Richmond brought in Nank in 2017 for their run. Sydney brought in Hickey 1 season before their GF and Grundy the same year they made the GF.

Balance is everything. Nothing wrong with having a trade in philosophy but back up ruckman are needed in case of injury. So im a strong advocate of having Rucks in the system developing as well. Out of a list of 40, 2-3 rucks should be a consistent plan. Could end up developing a star player for peanuts and it saves having a trade. Best of both worlds.

 

[AFC979810]

Balance is everything. Nothing wrong with having a trade in philosophy but back up ruckman are needed in case of injury. So im a strong advocate of having Rucks in the system developing as well. Out of a list of 40, 2-3 rucks should be a consistent plan. Could end up developing a star player for peanuts and it saves having a trade. Best of both worlds.

Yeah sure. I am not against it. But I dont think its a massive issue and is a problem that can be fixed very easily.

We have built a really nice list. If you got to choose one weakness on an AFL list - you would definitely chose the ruck position because its so unimportant.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yeah sure. I am not against it. But I dont think its a massive issue and is a problem that can be fixed very easily.

We have built a really nice list. If you got to choose one weakness on an AFL list - you would definitely chose the ruck position because its so unimportant.

Clubs are so good at reading the play off the opposition ruck these days too so its not always the advantage we think it is. Maybe the evolution off the game is bipassing the genuine ruckman and now 200cm players are turning to forwards and defenders and then you have Curtin who is freak at 197cm and is a running player. I can probably see a day where tall players rotate through the ruck and then migrate to their preferred positions on ground. Frees up the play for an extra mid. The size of KPP are killing ruckman now. So I do get your point. And then when you start getting to basketball 6'9 7fters size players they are just too slow. Maybe some freaks will apear in the not too distant future. Who knows.

 

[FR0GGY]

Why is that a problem. Thats what premiership teams have done over the past 10 years....

Richmond brought in Nank in 2017 for their run. Sydney brought in Hickey 1 season before their GF and Grundy the same year they made the GF.

Yeah and it worked for Richmond, what if it doesn’t work, it hasn’t worked for Sydney for two attempts.
Maybe they are the exception not the rule? How many sides went in with a stable ruck?
Geelong, Melbourne.
west coast and Brisbane would have, but for injury, collingwoods had been there awhile.