List Mgmt. 2025 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Scorpus]

We've also got Toby Murray and Thilthorpe

I know people hate the idea that either of these guys being seen as ruckman.....but perhaps they are being seen as ruck options ? Just not pure rucks

Thilthorpe should never play first ruck

 

[1990crow]

Thilthorpe should never play first ruck

Not recruiting a ruck leaves Nicks with this opportunity. Our club should learn that Nicks will always revert to the dumb selection option, need to take it away.

 

[Vader]

They might have been before this season but after his dismal AFL effort this year I think that changed dramatically. Hamish admitted yesterday in his interview rucks will be an area we're focusing on going forward.

With ROB & Strachan both being 29 already, and our only other rucks being the unproven Turray and prospective gun forward Thilthorpe, Blind Freddy can see that it's an area which needs addressing imminently.

Strachan has proven that he can't ruck full-time at AFL level, and rumour has it that ROB wants to head to Melbourne to study (preparing for his post-AFL life, which is entirely commendable) when his current contract expires. This will leave us in a position where both our primary and 1st backup ruckman are both heading out the door at the same time, and both will need replacing.

I would have liked us to be able to draft a ruckman, possibly Dodson, in this year's draft. I will never understand why we re-signed Cook, who has never shown anything at AFL level, and hasn't improved one iota since he arrived at the club. Similarly, the decision to re-sign Berry, only to sign a better version of him during the FA/trade period, is almost as mystifying. Then there's the stupidity of selecting Smith for his trigger game, only to banish him to the SANFL straight afterwards. Had any one of these ridiculous decisions been reversed then Dodson would be on our list now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Note that both Smith & Cook were dropped back to the SANFL within weeks of being re-signed (or hitting a contract extension trigger). Surely that alone is an indicator that we got these decisions massively wrong.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't... and now we find ourselves desperately needing to recruit not just 1, but at least 2 ruckmen, in 2025.

 

[FR0GGY]

I would like to know what the 20 issues are that needs addressing before a ruck.
Sure it’s not the top of the pile but it needs addressing soon, having someone in your team (even leadership group) that can’t kick and not in great marking form makes me embarrassed.

 

[Cap]

Thilthorpe should never play first ruck

I don't think it's 1st ruck, but i also don't think it will be no ruck.

 

[Big Dub]

By not addressing it, we are now staring down the barrel at having to offer a below average player in Sam Draper a $1m/6 year deal.

Which is exactly the issue.

To draft a ruck, you need multiple attempts with later picks and it will be at least 4 years before they are ready.

To trade in a ruck, you need draft pick/s and cash.

We're pretty much out of time for option 1.

 

[dogs105]

Whose the third?

Murray?

He hasnt played at ruck yet in the SANFL. I guess its a bit bit like Strachan hadnt for his first two years on the list until ROB took over from Sauce. Strachan was a forward that pinch hitted in ruck. Much like Murray

Murray had some very good minutes in the ruck in SANFL this year.

 

[Vader]

I would like to know what the 20 issues are that needs addressing before a ruck.
Sure it’s not the top of the pile but it needs addressing soon, having someone in your team (even leadership group) that can’t kick and not in great marking form makes me embarrassed.

ROB is clearly a competent ruckman, and while he remains in place we only need worry about fixing his support acts - which by definition makes it a 2nd order problem.

However, the rumour is that ROB wants to go to Melbourne (city) when his current contract expires. Strachan is the same age as ROB, is now proven not to be a viable replacement, and is unlikely to have his contract renewed when it expires next year.

Thus, we are faced with having to replace both our 1st and 2nd rucks at the same time. That's clearly a 1st order problem, and one which would be well inside our top-20 issues. Rucking with Turray as prime, and Thilthorpe as backup, with nothing in the SANFL, is simply not a viable option in 2026!

 

[AFC979810]

I would like to know what the 20 issues are that needs addressing before a ruck.
Sure it’s not the top of the pile but it needs addressing soon, having someone in your team (even leadership group) that can’t kick and not in great marking form makes me embarrassed.

Nicks game plan, Nicks Selection, Nicks game management, Nicks Tactical changes, Nicks use of the Sub, Nicks ability to win in week 1, Nicks ability to win in week 2, Nicks inability to win close games, Nicks ability to swat flies, Nicks being unable to grow hair.

Thats 10 issues that came right to me.

 

[FR0GGY]

Nicks game plan, Nicks Selection, Nicks game management, Nicks Tactical changes, Nicks use of the Sub, Nicks ability to win in week 1, Nicks ability to win in week 2, Nicks inability to win close games, Nicks ability to swat flies, Nicks being unable to grow hair.

Thats 10 issues that came right to me.

But none of these would be negatively affected by bringing in a ruck.
We should be able to work on completely different things at the same time.

 

[FR0GGY]

ROB is clearly a competent ruckman, and while he remains in place we only need worry about fixing his support acts - which by definition makes it a 2nd order problem.

However, the rumour is that ROB wants to go to Melbourne (city) when his current contract expires. Strachan is the same age as ROB, is now proven not to be a viable replacement, and is unlikely to have his contract renewed when it expires next year.

Thus, we are faced with having to replace both our 1st and 2nd rucks at the same time. That's clearly a 1st order problem, and one which would be well inside our top-20 issues. Rucking with Turray as prime, and Thilthorpe as backup, with nothing in the SANFL, is simply not a viable option in 2026!

So he’s competent at the part which a lot of people say doesn’t matter?

 

[Vader]

So he’s competent at the part which a lot of people say doesn’t matter?

When you look at the list of premiership ruckmen in recent year, it's clear that you don't need an elite ruck to win the flag.
I know ROB has his detractors, and he is far from perfect - but he's clearly competent and "good enough", while he remains in place. ROB's ruck work is not one of our top-20 problems.

The problem is that he may not be "in place" beyond 2025, and his backup acts are not "good enough" (at least not as of the time of writing).

 

[FR0GGY]

When you look at the list of premiership ruckmen in recent year, it's clear that you don't need an elite ruck to win the flag.
I know ROB has his detractors, and he is far from perfect - but he's clearly competent and "good enough", while he remains in place. ROB's ruck work is not one of our top-20 problems.

The problem is that he may not be "in place" beyond 2025, and his backup acts are not "good enough" (at least not as of the time of writing).

Not suggesting it is, prepared to accept he’s a competent ruck even though I believe he has no ruck craft, he’s just a blunter.
But the rest of his game is not competent imo.

 

[whitey_1975]

ROB is clearly a competent ruckman, and while he remains in place we only need worry about fixing his support acts - which by definition makes it a 2nd order problem.

However, the rumour is that ROB wants to go to Melbourne (city) when his current contract expires. Strachan is the same age as ROB, is now proven not to be a viable replacement, and is unlikely to have his contract renewed when it expires next year.

Thus, we are faced with having to replace both our 1st and 2nd rucks at the same time. That's clearly a 1st order problem, and one which would be well inside our top-20 issues. Rucking with Turray as prime, and Thilthorpe as backup, with nothing in the SANFL, is simply not a viable option in 2026!

Keeping in line with today's standards, you might say he's competent, like in everyone gets a medal for participation.
Rob is pathetic and anything but competent. Can't kick, can't mark, can't jump, can't convert ruck taps to our advantage, can run but is ungainly and unco.
So to your point he's competent, I can't agree. Had to be replaced, Dodson was worth a late pick, we needed to be more flexible, there are numerous ways we could have got an extra list spot, but we can't make a hard call if our life depended on it.

 

[GameofSloanes]

ROB is clearly a competent ruckman, and while he remains in place we only need worry about fixing his support acts - which by definition makes it a 2nd order problem.

However, the rumour is that ROB wants to go to Melbourne (city) when his current contract expires. Strachan is the same age as ROB, is now proven not to be a viable replacement, and is unlikely to have his contract renewed when it expires next year.

Thus, we are faced with having to replace both our 1st and 2nd rucks at the same time. That's clearly a 1st order problem, and one which would be well inside our top-20 issues. Rucking with Turray as prime, and Thilthorpe as backup, with nothing in the SANFL, is simply not a viable option in 2026!

So much this, and the fact that we did nothing about it suggests that we have something lined up as a ready made replacement. There are rumours about Draper, which would be disappointing, as I see him as a below average ruckman (and a flog). Would also help explain the lack of urgency to draft a ruck, as Dodson (or whoever) wouldn't be ready for a few years.
My question to the list management team is: if ROB does his knee in pre season, what is the plan? Give up on making finals before the season starts?

 

[GameofSloanes]

Nicks game plan, Nicks Selection, Nicks game management, Nicks Tactical changes, Nicks use of the Sub, Nicks ability to win in week 1, Nicks ability to win in week 2, Nicks inability to win close games, Nicks ability to swat flies, Nicks being unable to grow hair.

Thats 10 issues that came right to me.

The problem with this list is, that 8 of those problems are actually serious

 

[Cap]

ROB is clearly a competent ruckman, and while he remains in place we only need worry about fixing his support acts - which by definition makes it a 2nd order problem.

However, the rumour is that ROB wants to go to Melbourne (city) when his current contract expires. Strachan is the same age as ROB, is now proven not to be a viable replacement, and is unlikely to have his contract renewed when it expires next year.

Thus, we are faced with having to replace both our 1st and 2nd rucks at the same time. That's clearly a 1st order problem, and one which would be well inside our top-20 issues. Rucking with Turray as prime, and Thilthorpe as backup, with nothing in the SANFL, is simply not a viable option in 2026!

I wonder if there are ruckman we are waiting on to try to trade in once Rob moves?

Sounds a reasonable and well worn path, if we have someone identified

 

[Vader]

Not suggesting it is, prepared to accept he’s a competent ruck even though I believe he has no ruck craft, he’s just a blunter.
But the rest of his game is not competent imo.

He goes alright for someone with "no ruck craft". He won 10% more hitouts per game than any other ruckman this year (42.8 vs 37.5 for the next best), winning 50.5% of all ruck contests in which he was involved (4th best in the AFL, only 0.6% behind the best). He had more hitouts to advantage per game than any other ruckman (12.2 vs 10.6 for the next best). 28.6% of his Hitouts are to Advantage, which only ranks him 24th, though many of those ahead of him benefited from small sample sizes (less than 10 matches, or less than 20 hitouts per game, or both).

Put simply, his ruck craft is fine. He's not a world beater - he's no Grundy or Gawn - but he's better than average.

His general field play & marking are another matter entirely, but his ruck work is massively underappreciated by many here on BF.

Source: https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2024

 

[GameofSloanes]

Again GK one argument at a time.

Yes - I am in the "don't draft a ruck" camp. Not even at an average pick.

You are saying use a <EDIT> draft pick to get a young ruck and then spend 5-years developing them in the hope they become something worthwhile. (not without a significant cost attached btw)

The "big contract" stuff is just the way it works. We don't pay ROB nothing, I bet he's in our upper echelon of payments.

As far as "going in with shit rucks in 2025" - I do not believe that our rucks will be a significant contributor to the why if we don't make finals in 2025.

I'm ok with using a pick around 50 on a ruck to see what happens. How can it be worse than picking a winger or half back that might end up being ok?
Im also ok with offering a decent contract to an established or emerging gun ruck. I just dont think Draper is that.
Our performance in 2025 is unlikely to be significantly affected by ROB being our ruck, but if he gets injured, we will struggle to win many games.....

 

[Mutineer]

I've got zero issues with Murray being looked at as a ruck, I honestly don't see how he makes the team otherwise. Unless the plan is to have Murray and TT float between ruck and forward.

IMO he was drafted as KPF depth and to a lesser degree ruck depth with the hope he develops further to put serious pressure from underneath on the current placeholders.

 

[Vader]

I wonder if there are ruckman we are waiting on to try to trade in once Rob moves?

Sounds a reasonable and well worn path, if we have someone identified

Rumour has it we're heavily into Essendon's Sam Draper, which would be disappointing, as he's a massive, massive, downgrade on ROB. Sam Draper is a FA next year. Having 2 S Drapers on our list is going to cause mass confusion.

We would also need to find a "mature aged plug-and-play SANFL backup" ruckman, in the mould of Strachan/Lowden/Graham. These players are usually grabbed very cheaply, using a late draft pick (noting we currently have 3x 3rd round and 2x 4th round picks).

 

[jackster83]

Nicks game plan, Nicks Selection, Nicks game management, Nicks Tactical changes, Nicks use of the Sub, Nicks ability to win in week 1, Nicks ability to win in week 2, Nicks inability to win close games, Nicks ability to swat flies, Nicks being unable to grow hair.

Thats 10 issues that came right to me.

Sounds like something that can be addressed with a sacking.

 

[Bovo]

I don't think it's 1st ruck, but i also don't think it will be no ruck.

I can’t help but think of Paddy Ryder who was both a decent ruckman and forward. They do exist. But I also feel a dedicated ruckman might be a position from yesterday’s era. I think what made the likes of Gawn and Grundy so good (especially Grundy) was how agile they are. I feel RTT can cover rucking in the forward 50 and play a forward position. Not sure how he’d go if he had to play an entire game as a ruckman though.

 

[1990crow]

Rumour has it we're heavily into Essendon's Sam Draper, which would be disappointing, as he's a massive, massive, downgrade on ROB. Sam Draper is a FA next year. Having 2 S Drapers on our list is going to cause mass confusion.

We would also need to find a "mature aged plug-and-play SANFL backup" ruckman, in the mould of Strachan/Lowden/Graham. These players are usually grabbed very cheaply, using a late draft pick (noting we currently have 3x 3rd round and 2x 4th round picks).

Nicks: Put Draper into the ruck
Burns: Sid, on you go.

 

[George Kramer]

I would like to know what the 20 issues are that needs addressing before a ruck.
Sure it’s not the top of the pile but it needs addressing soon, having someone in your team (even leadership group) that can’t kick and not in great marking form makes me embarrassed.

Who gets dropped annually