5th Ashes Test England v Australia July 27-31 1930hrs @ The Oval

[King Elvis]

I think they asked for a ball change an absurd amount of times across the series - at least it felt that way. I was surprised the umpires allowed it, given how often they had to check the ball and confirm that it was fine.

As much as we were stitched up by this ball change, I think it does raise a valid, separate issue.

If the ball goes to shit because the batting side is tonking it, isn't that an advantage that the batting side has earnt?

Why does the bowling side get to change the ball if they have their arses handed to them, and the batting side losing that benefit?

 

[King Elvis]

that's gonna hurt - or push both australia and england right until their last test series in the cycle to finish top 2.

australia will have to win 10 of their remaining 14 matches and could and should still win those , but we can't control the sydney weather and we still have 2 tests there in this cycle.



*the weighting of losing points for slow over rates hurt england, australia and india most as they play 19-22 tests and present more opportunities for slow over rates compared to the others who play 12-15.

And I am absolutely fine with these sanctions - teams don't give a shit about the over rate, a financial penalty isn't going to change that; it needs to be a heavy penalty, like this.

Perhaps now in the future, sides will take the over rate requirement seriously (I read somewhere that one afternoon when we were 9 for, England took 28 minutes to bowl 4 overs, to avoid having to bat for the last half hour the day).

 

[King Elvis]

His last 7-8 years would contend with almost anyone. It's actually a bit of a shame how poor he was this series.

I mean, the instruction was for dead tracks to support Bazball - Anderson was always going to battle in that context.

 

[PhatBoy]

As much as we were stitched up by this ball change, I think it does raise a valid, separate issue.

If the ball goes to s**t because the batting side is tonking it, isn't that an advantage that the batting side has earnt?

Why does the bowling side get to change the ball if they have their arses handed to them, and the batting side losing that benefit?

I guess the problem that then causes is what you do when a side is blocking everything but the ball still goes out of shape - who’s discretion does it come down to to decide how the ball was in the state it is in?

 

[PhatBoy]

I mean, the instruction was for dead tracks to support Bazball - Anderson was always going to battle in that context.

But Woakes managed, Broad has generally been a little more effective than Anderson but still prefers some help as well and he was still effective. Wood generally got the ball to swing.

He was below his best

 

[King Elvis]

I guess the problem that then causes is what you do when a side is blocking everything but the ball still goes out of shape - who’s discretion does it come down to to decide how the ball was in the state it is in?

New ball at 80 overs, unless it's absolutely ****ed before then, bad luck?

Obviously then the definition of 'absolutely ****ed' comes into play

But Woakes managed, Broad has generally been a little more effective than Anderson but still prefers some help as well and he was still effective. Wood generally got the ball to swing.

He was below his best

Fair call, he was definitely below his best, but I do feel like the conditions hurt him the most.

Probably lucky for us that Tongue wasn't preferred.

 

[PhatBoy]

New ball at 80 overs, unless it's absolutely ****ed before then, bad luck?

Obviously then the definition of 'absolutely ****ed' comes into play



Fair call, he was definitely below his best, but I do feel like the conditions hurt him the most.

Probably lucky for us that Tongue wasn't preferred.

Yeah that’s fair as well.

 

[cricketnut14]

And I am absolutely fine with these sanctions - teams don't give a s**t about the over rate, a financial penalty isn't going to change that; it needs to be a heavy penalty, like this.

Perhaps now in the future, sides will take the over rate requirement seriously (I read somewhere that one afternoon when we were 9 for, England took 28 minutes to bowl 4 overs, to avoid having to bat for the last half hour the day).

well the WTC means stuff all to these teams if thats the case. i mean it cost australia in the first edition of the WTC and they still haven't learnt.

 

[FredLeDeux]

well the WTC means stuff all to these teams if thats the case. i mean it cost australia in the first edition of the WTC and they still haven't learnt.

In fact, to most teams, the WTC and penalties in the WTC are as relevant as penalising West Coast on percentage rather than good old cash.

 

[danstar]

Australia could not care less about over rates, they will never bowl more then 85 overs in a day, it wouldnt matter what the penalty was

 

[lazy77]

Don't know why anyone is surprised. Teams have been picking the best batsman instead the best keeper for decades now. Still remember shaking my head at England leaving out Chris Read when he was clearly their best keeper by a long way.

No one wants an Ian Healy anymore, because it’s a waste of a spot. No. 7 is a very important batting position. It’s fine if you’re just a decent keeper as long as you’re a consistently good batter. You win more games that way. Gilchrist proved this beyond any doubt.

 

[Jimthegreat]

what are you talking about?

Ponting is universally respected around the world as a cricketing genius.

Ponting was a great leader of men but tactically terrible. 2010/11 was the worst stuff imaginable at the time. Still remember him deliberately feeding Jonathon Trott's strength thinking it was the way to get him out. 3 losses by an innings. We were rebuilding but that side wasn't that bad. 2009 using all the wrong bowlers to get Panesar and Anderson out, which that failed to, meaning a certain win ended up a draw. He was sacked after the 2020/11 series. The next year under Clarke Australia flogged India unmercifully 4-0.

 

[anchor man]

Best Australian captains I've seen in order:

1. Taylor
2. Chappell I
3. Border
4. Waugh
5. Clarke
6. Chappell G
7. Ponting
8. Smith
9. Cummins
10. Hughes
11. Paine

Doesn't include the stand-ins though special mention for Gilchrist in India. I feel like I've missed someone...

It was pretty hard for Hughes, he had half the team including the Chappels taking pot shots at him.
Ian Chappell was a constant prick to Hughes.
Har do make it work when half the side were against him.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Best Australian captains I've seen in order:

1. Taylor
2. Chappell I
3. Border
4. Waugh
5. Clarke
6. Chappell G
7. Ponting
8. Smith
9. Cummins
10. Hughes
11. Paine

Doesn't include the stand-ins though special mention for Gilchrist in India. I feel like I've missed someone...

I have Clarke at 4, Smith at 5. Waugh was not at all a great tactical captain but was a very great leader of men. Warnie always used to say that players come up to him to talk to Waugh in the hope of changing tactics. He was very rigid in his tactics and ideas, as we saw in India when he enforced that follow-on. The season without Warne and McGrath found him out badly. Great leaders of men with great teams get great commitment and results.

 

[Jimthegreat]

well the WTC means stuff all to these teams if thats the case. i mean it cost australia in the first edition of the WTC and they still haven't learnt.

Australia have the West Indies and Pakistan to dine out on in summer to make up for it.

 

[M Malice]

Where does BAZBALL go next?

I am keeping my Kayo sub running specifically for this!

I wouldn't be surprised if Baz is the number 1 name for boys and girls in England 12 months from now.

BAZBALL

I'll wait for Bazball the Movie on Netflix... a story of the spirit of cricket - The Last Gentlemen of Cricket, starring John Goodman as Jonny Bairstow and Don Most as Ben Stokes.

 

[Cuzz09]

Next for Bazball will be a team of all rounders.

Everyone must average 50 with the bat and bowl 150km or not selected

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[kickazz]

Next for Bazball will be a team of all rounders.

Everyone must average 50 with the bat and bowl 150km or not selected

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

No they'll just pick 11 batters and put the ball on a tee or fire it from a machine

 

[DaRick]

what are you talking about?

Ponting is universally respected around the world as a cricketing genius.

Ponting was a terrific ODI captain, but I reckon that his long apprenticeship as ODI captain actually damaged his Test captaincy because he treated Tests like extended ODIs (not having spinners on until X over, setting defensive fields or fields for bad bowling too early). Mind, the coaches and selectors didn't help him any.

 

[PhatBoy]

I guarantee, absolutely with 100 per cent certainty, if there wasn’t this stupid media coined catchphrase cliche to describe England’s gameplan, it would actually be debated meritoriously and with decent analysis.

It’s literally the fact that it has a name more than anything else that seems to be messing with people’s heads

 

[burge13]

I'll wait for Bazball the Movie on Netflix... a story of the spirit of cricket - The Last Gentlemen of Cricket, starring John Goodman as Jonny Bairstow and Don Most as Ben Stokes.

From the creators of South Park, BAZBALL the musical!

 

[burge13]

I guarantee, absolutely with 100 per cent certainty, if there wasn’t this stupid media coined catchphrase cliche to describe England’s gameplan, it would actually be debated meritoriously and with decent analysis.

It’s literally the fact that it has a name more than anything else that seems to be messing with people’s heads

I mean if there's any merit to declaring 8 down on day 1 on the first test of a 5 test series then sure, debate it. But there isnt

Then they moaned about spirit of the game, moral victories, nonsense. Poor team selection on top. Such thought provoking shit

Their genius tactics are being slightly more attacking with the bat. Hardly world breaking is it. I do agree though, the media shit me on this more than the poms did.

BAZBALL

 

[kickazz]

I guarantee, absolutely with 100 per cent certainty, if there wasn’t this stupid media coined catchphrase cliche to describe England’s gameplan, it would actually be debated meritoriously and with decent analysis.

It’s literally the fact that it has a name more than anything else that seems to be messing with people’s heads

It's a bit that, but it's also the hubris and the "saving cricket", "playing all the cricket" drivel. "It felt like we won", yeah I suppose that messed with people's heads because it was unmitigated bollocks.

Controversial opinion but I thought it actually sucked. The declaration in the first test, the throwing away of wickets; once England changed from stupidity to good old fashioned aggressive batting, well, shock horror, they started getting results their way!

 

[PhatBoy]

I mean if there's any merit to declaring 8 down on day 1 on the first test of a 5 test series then sure, debate it. But there isnt

Then they moaned about spirit of the game, moral victories, nonsense. Poor team selection on top. Such thought provoking s**t

Their genius tactics are being slightly more attacking with the bat. Hardly world breaking is it. I do agree though, the media s**t me on this more than the poms did.

BAZBALL

Except if they don’t let two tail Enders put on 50, there is, isn’t there

Slightly more attacking?

Is that a code word for statistically the most attacking side over an extended period in the history of the sport?

 

[PhatBoy]

It's a bit that, but it's also the hubris and the "saving cricket", "playing all the cricket" drivel. "It felt like we won", yeah I suppose that messed with people's heads because it was unmitigated bollocks.

Controversial opinion but I thought it actually sucked. The declaration in the first test, the throwing away of wickets; once England changed from stupidity to good old fashioned aggressive batting, well, shock horror, they started getting results their way!

The ‘it felt like we won’ I disagree with because the fact is if you don’t win, you didn’t win. The saving cricket part? The jury is out on that but who knows it very well could in some capacity.