5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[Stax on the mill]

Chris Broads century in the innings win in the 1986 Boxing Day test was my lowest ebb

From memory I think he got 3 centuries in that series? He did bat well. Arrogant S.O.B though. Apple didn’t fall far from the tree with son Stuart.

It was Merv Hughes debut series. In his first test he got absolutely carted. I remember Ian Chappell commentating and saying “The trouble with Mervyn Hughes is that he thinks he’s a fast bowler”. And he meant it in a derogatory way. Pretty brutal stuff, even by Chappell’s tawdry standards.

 

[western royboy]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

I am prepared to give it a go…but historically the only players who have prospered with elements of non conventional techniques are “freaks” Bradman,Sehwag, du Plessis & Smith to name a few.

There is no opening batsman in the history of the game that has prospered with a gap as big as he does between his bat and pad when playing a forward defence.

As batting techniques decline it may be the way of the future but I remain very skeptical of it succeeding once he comes under the close attention of the analysts

 

[sabso]

Hey, a draw AND a Mo Matthews hundred...

Hanging loos? What, toilets?

 

[western royboy]

Hey, a draw AND a Mo Matthews hundred...

I had a night in the Randwick Rugby Club with Mo after a days play in Grade cricket one day…I learned a hell of a lot about the game that night, truly one of the underrated characters of the game

 

[beatnik]

I don’t disagree with his point - when things legitimately happen they DONT have to worry because they’re not going to get punished.

Kohli should have been suspended for shouldering Konstas.

Remember back to the Rabada Smith incident - before his appeal he got 2 matches and he didn’t even make physical contact from memory, it was actually just shirt on shirt and it was in his follow through. Kohli should have been rubbed out.

I don’t really think the other stuff they’re harping on about is worth getting charged up over though because if you’re expecting players to get sanctioned for those things be they Indian or not, I think you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

I think that’s the whole point Phatboy, plenty of people just accept that Indian players will get away with things no one else would and that’s the corruption of world cricket summed up right there

my level disappointment is of no consequence…when I can be bothered, I’ll call it out and to suggest I should preserve my energy by sliding into indifference is a) a little bit patronising and b) the sort of energy that enables it

So let me just say again: **** the BCCI and their corruption of world cricket

 

[Soggy2112]

I am prepared to give it a go…but historically the only players who have prospered with elements of non conventional techniques are “freaks” Bradman,Sehwag, du Plessis & Smith to name a few.

There is no opening batsman in the history of the game that has prospered with a gap as big as he does between his bat and pad when playing a forward defence.

As batting techniques decline it may be the way of the future but I remain very skeptical of it succeeding once he comes under the close attention of the analysts

Define “non-conventional”. I reckon you can name nearly as many with aspects of their technique you wouldn’t necessarily teach.

Ponting, Lara, Amla, Smith (both Graeme and Steven), S Waugh, Gilchrist, Pietersen, Cook, Pant etc the list goes on. All guys with parts of their technique that if you saw at 19, you would probably instinctively want to change. Yet if you took those things away, they likely lose some of what made them so great.

 

[sr36]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

Depends upon the pitch and the bowler, but on those pitches and the way Bumrah was bowling a ramp was a safer shot than a cover drive and going to get you more runs than blocking until a loose ball came. Against Bumrah and Boland the loose balls don't come often enough, so if the pitch is seaming, you're really just blocking until the edge comes.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think that’s the whole point Phatboy, plenty of people just accept that Indian players will get away with things no one else would and that’s the corruption of world cricket summed up right there

my level disappointment is of no consequence…when I can be bothered, I’ll call it out and to suggest I should preserve my energy by sliding into indifference is a) a little bit patronising and b) the sort of energy that enables it

So let me just say again: **** the BCCI and their corruption of world cricket

Those things though: motioning towards someone after a wicket? It’s not illegal, no one is going to get sanctioned for that, Indian or not.

I can understand people getting the shits about it, but ultimately none of them when Khawaja got out got right in Konstas’ personal space, touched him, abused him etc.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to, and Bumrah in particular really wanted to unleash and then almost visibly had a moment where he had to remind himself not to go too far. But I don’t see what they could have been sanctioned for.

Teams do that stuff when players rile them up. Remember the Aussies getting in a group and turning and barking at Faf when he left the field? Retrospectively it’s actually pretty funny albeit a bit childish.

Siraj to Head: again it was a bowler giving a batsman a send off, it happens every game. It just got exacerbated because this particular bowler looked incredibly f**king stupid given that the batsman had just crunched a century, and then the bowler came out and spoke about it. So what sanctions would be imposed over it? Maybe a fine, which he got anyway.


Kohli blows up at some photographers and tells them not to film him. Ok so again, he acts like a Prima Donna - it’s douche bag behaviour but what are the sanctions that he’s dodging? What suspensions are NZ players going to get for the same thing? You can’t MAKE a guy want to be photographed at an airport and be nice to the media. He didn’t break anyone’s camera or whatever. I guess some countries might make their players issue an apology maybe.


I’m just saying that a lot of the instances they’re talking about are things that understandably piss people off - no doubt about that - but they are things that other countries players HAVE done and not been rubbed out for so why would Indian players get rubbed out for them.

At any rate the bottom line is, I think we can agree, India realistically probably can do what they want.

But I don’t think beyond Kohli’s shoulder, that any of their behaviour crossed a line that would get someone suspended. And being realistic, him staying in the side probably helped if anything.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

check out Higgo’s rant on Indian cricket’s corrupting influence on world cricket starting at 25:50

Beautifully articulated!

I loved the comments about Ricky Ponting, so true

 

[beatnik]

Those things though: motioning towards someone after a wicket? It’s not illegal, no one is going to get sanctioned for that, Indian or not.

I can understand people getting the shits about it, but ultimately none of them when Khawaja got out got right in Konstas’ personal space, touched him, abused him etc.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to, and Bumrah in particular really wanted to unleash and then almost visibly had a moment where he had to remind himself not to go too far. But I don’t see what they could have been sanctioned for.

Teams do that stuff when players rile them up. Remember the Aussies getting in a group and turning and barking at Faf when he left the field? Retrospectively it’s actually pretty funny albeit a bit childish.

Siraj to Head: again it was a bowler giving a batsman a send off, it happens every game. It just got exacerbated because this particular bowler looked incredibly f**king stupid given that the batsman had just crunched a century, and then the bowler came out and spoke about it. So what sanctions would be imposed over it? Maybe a fine, which he got anyway.


Kohli blows up at some photographers and tells them not to film him. Ok so again, he acts like a Prima Donna - it’s douche bag behaviour but what are the sanctions that he’s dodging? What suspensions are NZ players going to get for the same thing? You can’t MAKE a guy want to be photographed at an airport and be nice to the media. He didn’t break anyone’s camera or whatever. I guess some countries might make their players issue an apology maybe.


I’m just saying that a lot of the instances they’re talking about are things that understandably piss people off - no doubt about that - but they are things that other countries players HAVE done and not been rubbed out for so why would Indian players get rubbed out for them.

At any rate the bottom line is, I think we can agree, India realistically probably can do what they want.

But I don’t think beyond Kohli’s shoulder, that any of their behaviour crossed a line that would get someone suspended. And being realistic, him staying in the side probably helped if anything.

I feel like you largely missed the point of the podcast I posted and that’s ok

Personally, I remember decades of complaining about The Ugly Australians both from cricket fans and media abroad and at home and am now watching India avoid accountability for a range of worse behaviour while pretending to be victimised

But it’s not my job to convince those that are comfortable with that

 

[PhatBoy]

I feel like you largely missed the point of the podcast I posted and that’s ok

Personally, I remember decades of complaining about The Ugly Australians both from cricket fans and media abroad and at home and am now watching India avoid accountability for a range of worse behaviour while pretending to be victimised

But it’s not my job to convince those that are comfortable with that

The point of their podcast seemed to be ‘India can get away with all of this stuff because they’re India but anyone else wouldn’t be able to.’

I’m saying ‘only one of the things they did’ (I’m not going to comment on the ball tampering thing as it’s the first I’ve heard of it) ‘could get ANYONE punished, Indian or otherwise.’

Tell me which country’s players would be suspended for what Siraj did at Adelaide?

No one’s.

It’s a myth that he avoided something because he’s Indian; he avoided it because it’s just not that serious an offence. He looked like a dickhead, but that’s not a hanging offence

Maybe I did miss a point that they were making, I dunno, but it seemed to me that all these examples they were giving were of players behaving in a certain way, that if they were from any other country, they would have faced some serious level of punishment.


I don’t believe that to be the case.

I think if they were from any other country they would have faced a serious level of ‘look at this f**kwit’ - which they copped anyway, and deservedly so.

For all of that, as I said, I DO agree that IF they did something that warranted a suspension….. which they did in one case, they simply wouldn’t get given one.

 

[revo333]

Well someone could secretly record it but it defeats & ruins the purpose of the show if someone did.

You want the guests off the leash with no fear you get more funny shit out of them with no recourse or backlash.

Its a cricket comedy night like going to any comedy show.

We got to see the cheeky Ricky Ponting at play & Gilchrist was a bonus in the 2nd part no one knew was actually happening.

It wasn't promoted he happened to be in the crowd and Punter brought him along.

One of the great nights especially if you love the TGC and the humour they bring.

I went in 2019 in Birmingham when i was over there for the Ashes and this was ramped up by x 100 then 5 years ago.

Yeah, I hear the shows in England and India were nuts.

It's a great podcast and probably got my interest back in cricket 3-4 years ago.

I remember when they first started on twitter.

 

[revo333]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

England has proved you can have one or two in a team but having more will have mixed results.

I think Konstas and Head can play in the same team long term with the way they bat.

It seems what we saw with Konstas was specifically for this series and he won't be as reckless.

But in the circumstance of the last game, that quick fire 20 chasing 160 was worth double.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Alan Border is correct.

 

[peternorth]

And WTF would Tom the mouth Morris know?
Has he run out of AFL players to pot?

Is it because he doesn’t play the game?

Don’t worry. Come footy season I’m sure he’s got plenty in the gun

The Konstas criticism is so annoying. As soon as someone shows some flair every single mistake they make is attributed to them being immature and reckless (even if they score better/more than pretty much any other opening bat of the series).

The rush to push any big personality down is so weird. It's like people don't actually want to be entertained. We want heroes but we also want them to stay inside very specific set of guidelines

I think it’s the Aussie culture. Aussies like humility and being within parameters as you alluded to. People have said he’s like ginnivan.


If konstas was Indian he’d be lauded and put in a pedestal. It shows the difference in support between the two nations. Similarly during the matches the Indian crowd are noisy and cheer everything. It made Aussie fans uncomfortable as it’s not what we do.

 

[sr36]

The point of their podcast seemed to be ‘India can get away with all of this stuff because they’re India but anyone else wouldn’t be able to.’

I’m saying ‘only one of the things they did’ (I’m not going to comment on the ball tampering thing as it’s the first I’ve heard of it) ‘could get ANYONE punished, Indian or otherwise.’

Tell me which country’s players would be suspended for what Siraj did at Adelaide?

No one’s.

It’s a myth that he avoided something because he’s Indian; he avoided it because it’s just not that serious an offence. He looked like a dickhead, but that’s not a hanging offence

Maybe I did miss a point that they were making, I dunno, but it seemed to me that all these examples they were giving were of players behaving in a certain way, that if they were from any other country, they would have faced some serious level of punishment.


I don’t believe that to be the case.

I think if they were from any other country they would have faced a serious level of ‘look at this f**kwit’ - which they copped anyway, and deservedly so.

For all of that, as I said, I DO agree that IF they did something that warranted a suspension….. which they did in one case, they simply wouldn’t get given one.

I think they were exaggerating most of the incidents, but their point outside of Kohli avoiding a suspension was that they avoided criticism and scrutiny. Indian government is extremely nationalistic and censorious of the media to uphold Indian nationalism. Their media can't criticise the Indian cricket team and those non-Indian commentators who want to work in the IPL probably can't either.

 

[Topkent]

Could be the shittest country going round.


Hilarious to call her a pig when most of those little virgin campaigners couldn't **** a pig if they tried.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Can't expect much from a nation that shits on the street more than any other.

 

[Coops93]

As opposed to the aesthetics of a suburban ground with a tin shed in one corner?

By the way, the real answer here is that Australia should host six or even seven tests per year.

Yes, a full ground is always better than a 2/3rds empty stadium.

Half of NZs grounds are just grass hills with a shed on one side and they're great when filled up, which they often do.

 

[Cataholic]

The point of their podcast seemed to be ‘India can get away with all of this stuff because they’re India but anyone else wouldn’t be able to.’

I’m saying ‘only one of the things they did’ (I’m not going to comment on the ball tampering thing as it’s the first I’ve heard of it) ‘could get ANYONE punished, Indian or otherwise.’

Tell me which country’s players would be suspended for what Siraj did at Adelaide?

No one’s.

It’s a myth that he avoided something because he’s Indian; he avoided it because it’s just not that serious an offence. He looked like a dickhead, but that’s not a hanging offence

Maybe I did miss a point that they were making, I dunno, but it seemed to me that all these examples they were giving were of players behaving in a certain way, that if they were from any other country, they would have faced some serious level of punishment.


I don’t believe that to be the case.

I think if they were from any other country they would have faced a serious level of ‘look at this f**kwit’ - which they copped anyway, and deservedly so.

For all of that, as I said, I DO agree that IF they did something that warranted a suspension….. which they did in one case, they simply wouldn’t get given one.

Your last paragraph is the crux of the problem.

The Indians know they can behave any way they want because they're untouchable.

If ANYONE but an Indian deliberately and aggressively shoulder charged another player they'd be instantly suspended, but Kohli didn't even get a slap with a wet lettuce leaf.

20%? Pfft.

And if the ICI dared tried to usurp the BCCI's power over them there'd be all sorts of tantrums, boycotts and sulking.

 

[BGman]

Half of NZs grounds are just grass hills with a shed on one side and they're great when filled up, which they often do.

Yeh creates a good atmosphere. Downside is with small crowds comes small cricket revenue. No wonder NZ cricket punters believe Test cricket is dying there. Build one major cricket stadium.

 

[Cataholic]

Is it because he doesn’t play the game?

Don’t worry. Come footy season I’m sure he’s got plenty in the gun




I think it’s the Aussie culture. Aussies like humility and being within parameters as you alluded to. People have said he’s like ginnivan.


If konstas was Indian he’d be lauded and put in a pedestal. It shows the difference in support between the two nations. Similarly during the matches the Indian crowd are noisy and cheer everything. It made Aussie fans uncomfortable as it’s not what we do.

There's a strong suggestion he was a 'role actor' following a directive from team management.

True or not, his presence certainly threw the Indians off-balance, so in that respect 'mission accomplished '.

His persona in first class cricket is said to be quite different to what we saw in the Test arena.

People are so quick to jump.

Let's see how he plays and behaves from here on before we judge him on such a small sample size.

 

[grumbleguts]

Chris Broads century in the innings win in the 1986 Boxing Day test was my lowest ebb

Imagine being a Pakistan fan in this game:

ENG vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 4th Test at London, August 26 - 29, 2010

Get cricket scorecard of 4th Test, ENG vs PAK, Pakistan tour of England 2010 at Lord's, London dated August 26 - 29, 2010.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Gethelred]

Which is completely understandable. Why they're not tapped on the shoulder is harder to explain.

It's a little more complicated than that.

Imagine, if you will, what actually coming up through a sport is really like. You'll have those who support you and nurture your talent, but then you're gonna have people who tell you straight up, "X is why you won't succeed."

I met a bloke on a coaching course who was on the edge of the WI setup for a long time; U16's nat, U18's nats, in the squad a few times. He told stories about how he met the same coach at 16's who told him, "You will never play for WI's." and then when he met him again on the edges of the squad that coach brought another coach over to him and said, "See. That's why you shouldn't have picked him." You're going to have people who 'tap you on the shoulder' all the ****ing time, evolved; people who see the reasons why you're going to flop, be a failure, find reasons why you won't make it.

When you get there to the apex of the game, the people there picked you multiple times. They've got your back, and you need to know they've got your back. This isn't 1990's England, in which the coaches could express faith in you then drop you for the next series; cricket coaching and selection have come a bloody long way. Look at what McCullum has done for England; these players were always under pressure, always on the edge of getting dropped, and they always played like it. Under Langer, we played like every run was an effort of will, afraid to play straight of the wicket or a shot out of line.

Do you think McDonald isn't going to have his player's back?

One of the big 'must drops' of the last few years was David Warner. Between the 23/11/2012 and the 20/2/2014, he had 2 hundreds and 9 50's @36.84; this gets even worse if we push that end date earlier to the 21/11/2013, because that is before he got 2 centuries and 2 50's; wipe off about 400 runs from 10ish digs. In that time, there were serious questions about him as a long form cricketer; after the first three years of his career, he had 5 centuries at under 40. There would've been any number of people in the setup who could've tapped him on the shoulder, but then he played a shield game against Victoria at Karen Rolson oval. In that game - featuring Pete Siddle, James Patinson, two blokes who were established players and had played test cricket before - Warner got extremely lucky early in that they essentially gifted him 36 odd runs through poor bowling; wide, straight, too full, too short. Warner got off to a flyer, getting a big ton in that game and the rest is history: Warner made 6 tons and 3 50's from his next 11 innings at test level.

You're going to go through sections where it's not working and to get you through them you need the support of those around you instead of that tap on the shoulder. When you're getting to the end of it, you'll feel your back starting to get up. They're not as insulated from the pressure of it as all that; they'd be as aware that things aren't going well as anyone. But - because it's worked for the rest of their career - they'll back themselves to prove the doubters wrong, to climb the hill that was impossible the first time around.

You're not going to know when you're done, and - let's face it - most sportspeople are not employed for their intelligence; you're not going to recognise the end unless you're a rare person, let alone player.

 

[ABAB]

Alan Border is correct.

View attachment 2198920

What cockiness? Hitting Bumrah because he couldn't score. If Konstas was cocky, he would have been the one who bump into Kohli lol.