5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[sr36]

Hogg started his career as a middle-order batsman and bowled wrist-spin later on.

Hogg gets a game for the Test team in this era. So would MacGill of course and McIntyre. MacGill would be first choice (after Warney) of course.

I just think Hogg is a better all round bowler than Zampa who just darts it in and hardly turns the ball (apart from his wrong-un). Hogg turned the ball both ways and had a bigger repertoire.

His batting would also be taken into consideration as well if he played these days.

Not ahead of Lyon he doesn't. And in the subcontinent when we play two spinners, on the turners we want the accuracy of finger spinners - preferably ones who can get it to slide on as well as turn and bounce.

 

[Lunchtime]

In my youth I must've watched the CommBank/Channel 9 cricket coaching video until I wore it out. Richie Benaud spoke of the flipper as something that you shouldn't even try until your late teens, until your shoulder was "fully grown" and you had a bit more coordination in your fingers.

A decade later I knew what he meant. I was a hack leggie, it's not something that I pretend to put on my non-existent cricket resume, but in my late teens I figured out how to bowl it (though not land it)... and tbh I'm not sure it's something that anyone at a junior level or Sunday league level should be bowling, it's just too much strain.

Fox Sports were recently doing a countdown of Warne's top 50 wickets. I was surprised to see a handful of wrong-uns amongst them, it wasn't a ball I remembered him using much as a weapon.

Richie Benaud was spot on. I didn't start bowling the Flipper until my late teens and he confirmed what i said above...it does put pressure on your shoulder/fingers.

Yeah Shane Warne's wrong-un wasn't his best ball.

 

[Lunchtime]

Not ahead of Lyon he doesn't. And in the subcontinent when we play two spinners, on the turners we want the accuracy of finger spinners - preferably ones who can get it to slide on as well as turn and bounce.

Hogg was more dynamic than Lyon. Lyon is a bit one dimensional but is accurate most of the time.

 

[Lunchtime]

We should've really been turning the country upside down to find a (post Warne), post Macgill successor.

You never know who/what could've turned up in someone's car boot.

Fact is....that was a bygone era the 1990s through to the mid 2000s. Those 4 wrist-spinners....strong depth and it was led by the freak Shane Warne.

 

[Lunchtime]

Not ahead of Lyon he doesn't. And in the subcontinent when we play two spinners, on the turners we want the accuracy of finger spinners - preferably ones who can get it to slide on as well as turn and bounce.

You'd be taking Hogg to the subcontinent along with Lyon if it was a "what if" scenario. His batting would also come into consideration - underrated lower order batsman he was.

 

[sr36]

Hogg was more dynamic than Lyon. Lyon is a bit one dimensional but is accurate most of the time.

Lyon's test record is miles above Hogg's first class record. He doesn't belong in the same conversation. Lyon might not be exciting, but he is a great.

 

[Lunchtime]

Lyon's test record is miles above Hogg's first class record. He doesn't belong in the same conversation. Lyon might not be exciting, but he is a great.

I wouldn't call Lyon a great. He's just a good off-spin bowler. Lara and Tendulkar would of taken him to the cleaners.

 

[DaRick]

I wouldn't call Lyon a great. He's just a good off-spin bowler. Lara and Tendulkar would of taken him to the cleaners.

Those two took every spinner to the cleaners in full flight.

 

[Lunchtime]

Those two took every spinner to the cleaners in full flight.

Yep. Harder era of world Test cricket then.

 

[Borisdog]

2:15 was more of a slider than a flipper. So was the LBW against the West Indies that Simon Taufel gave our. He was so good he bamboozled the creator of that video.

Yeah there’s no doubt that a few in that footage weren’t genuine flippers.

Anything that went down the pitch “floating” certainly wasn’t, and there was a few of them in the footage.

Anything that nailed the Saffers generally was, that first 3 or 4 years of his career was when he REALLY bowled it , after that the shoulder was troubling him too much to bowl it effectively.

 

[Lunchtime]

Yeah there’s no doubt that a few in that footage weren’t genuine flippers.

Anything that went down the pitch “floating” certainly wasn’t, and there was a few of them in the footage.

Anything that nailed the Saffers generally was, that first 3 or 4 years of his career was when he REALLY bowled it , after that the shoulder was troubling him too much to bowl it effectively.

The Flipper has a quicker trajectory and skids low too.

The Slider will have flight but then not turn as it pitches and goes straight on.

 

[Lunchtime]

To watch them back to back is to feel genuinely sorry for Darryl Cullinan. Poor dude. He was a good batter. He was really good! And Warney just ruined the poor bastard.

Overall he (Cullinan) averaged 44.21 in Test cricket, yet I didn't realise how bad he was against Australia, he really did struggle:

Home vs Australia
Matches: 3
Innings: 6
Runs: 122
Average: 24.40
50s: 0
100s: 0
50+ Scores: 0
Highest Score: 47
Not Outs: 1
Ducks: 1

Away vs Australia
Matches: 4
Innings: 7
Runs: 31
Average: 4.42
50s: 0
100s: 0
50+ Scores: 0
Highest Score: 10
Not Outs: 0
Ducks: 2

Overall vs Australia
Matches: 7
Innings: 13
Runs: 153
Average: 12.75
50s: 0
100s: 0
50+ Scores: 0
Highest Score: 47
Not Outs: 1
Ducks: 3

 

[010203]

To watch them back to back is to feel genuinely sorry for Darryl Cullinan. Poor dude. He was a good batter. He was really good! And Warney just ruined the poor bastard.

The 2 flippers that got Cullinan at the SCG in 1994 were a delight and it was funny how clueless a pretty good player was made to look.

Ian Chappell has spoken about how one day Tony Greig said to Cullinan "What are you watching for when Warne bowls the flipper"? Cullinan's response: "I don't know".

 

[sr36]

I wouldn't call Lyon a great. He's just a good off-spin bowler. Lara and Tendulkar would of taken him to the cleaners.

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

 

[Lunchtime]

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

Saqlain Mushtaq averaged 34.14 in Australia.

One of the all time great off-spinners.

 

[Lunchtime]

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

Lyon - Test Averages: Countries

Australia: 31.08
Bangladesh: 14.31
England: 29.61
India: 27.35
New Zealand: 16.91
Pakistan: 44.91
South Africa: 39.75
Sri Lanka: 32.02
UAE: 53.80
West Indies: 23.38

 

[sr36]

Saqlain Mushtaq averaged 34.14 in Australia.

One of the all time great off-spinners.

Yeah he was awesome.

 

[Lunchtime]

Yeah he was awesome.

Only played 46 Test matches. If only he played more Test's. Averaged 29 in Tests and averaged 21 in ODI.

Up there with the best finger spinners I've seen.

 

[Topkent]

Zampa has a point about the sad lack of top quality leg spinners across the world in Test cricket. Unfortunately for him, he had no hope of being picked. If they were going to take a leg spinner, it would have been Mitch Swepson but his numbers don't stack up this season.

He had no hope because he's a dog shit leg spinner in long form cricket, he's tailored his whole game to bowling quick flat leggies that work in short form cricket. Hes played 3 first class games in 3 years. Did he move state to try play more? Did he go overseas and play first class cricket?
Nope just had a whinge that it's some conspiracy that a bloke with a FC bowling average in the 40s can't get a gig

 

[sr36]

Only played 46 Test matches. If only he played more Test's. Averaged 29 in Tests and averaged 21 in ODI.

Up there with the best finger spinners I've seen.

They had some great who we unfortunately we didn't get to see enough of. Mushy and Saeed Anwar only played a similar number of tests.

 

[Topkent]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

 

[sabso]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

He took that bad luck out on the Sydney criminal underworld

 

[Lunchtime]

They had some great who we unfortunately we didn't get to see enough of. Mushy and Saeed Anwar only played a similar number of tests.

They were great players too.

 

[Lunchtime]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

In my opinion he is Australia's second best spinner behind Shane Warne. No Warne means MacGill plays a lot more Test matches.

 

[Lunchtime]

He had no hope because he's a dog shit leg spinner in long form cricket, he's tailored his whole game to bowling quick flat leggies that work in short form cricket. Hes played 3 first class games in 3 years. Did he move state to try play more? Did he go overseas and play first class cricket?
Nope just had a whinge that it's some conspiracy that a bloke with a FC bowling average in the 40s can't get a gig

46.56...thats his First-Class average with the ball.