5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[010203]

To watch them back to back is to feel genuinely sorry for Darryl Cullinan. Poor dude. He was a good batter. He was really good! And Warney just ruined the poor bastard.

The 2 flippers that got Cullinan at the SCG in 1994 were a delight and it was funny how clueless a pretty good player was made to look.

Ian Chappell has spoken about how one day Tony Greig said to Cullinan "What are you watching for when Warne bowls the flipper"? Cullinan's response: "I don't know".

 

[sr36]

I wouldn't call Lyon a great. He's just a good off-spin bowler. Lara and Tendulkar would of taken him to the cleaners.

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

 

[Lunchtime]

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

Saqlain Mushtaq averaged 34.14 in Australia.

One of the all time great off-spinners.

 

[Lunchtime]

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

Lyon - Test Averages: Countries

Australia: 31.08
Bangladesh: 14.31
England: 29.61
India: 27.35
New Zealand: 16.91
Pakistan: 44.91
South Africa: 39.75
Sri Lanka: 32.02
UAE: 53.80
West Indies: 23.38

 

[sr36]

Saqlain Mushtaq averaged 34.14 in Australia.

One of the all time great off-spinners.

Yeah he was awesome.

 

[Lunchtime]

Yeah he was awesome.

Only played 46 Test matches. If only he played more Test's. Averaged 29 in Tests and averaged 21 in ODI.

Up there with the best finger spinners I've seen.

 

[Topkent]

Zampa has a point about the sad lack of top quality leg spinners across the world in Test cricket. Unfortunately for him, he had no hope of being picked. If they were going to take a leg spinner, it would have been Mitch Swepson but his numbers don't stack up this season.

He had no hope because he's a dog shit leg spinner in long form cricket, he's tailored his whole game to bowling quick flat leggies that work in short form cricket. Hes played 3 first class games in 3 years. Did he move state to try play more? Did he go overseas and play first class cricket?
Nope just had a whinge that it's some conspiracy that a bloke with a FC bowling average in the 40s can't get a gig

 

[sr36]

Only played 46 Test matches. If only he played more Test's. Averaged 29 in Tests and averaged 21 in ODI.

Up there with the best finger spinners I've seen.

They had some great who we unfortunately we didn't get to see enough of. Mushy and Saeed Anwar only played a similar number of tests.

 

[Topkent]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

 

[sabso]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

He took that bad luck out on the Sydney criminal underworld

 

[Lunchtime]

They had some great who we unfortunately we didn't get to see enough of. Mushy and Saeed Anwar only played a similar number of tests.

They were great players too.

 

[Lunchtime]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

In my opinion he is Australia's second best spinner behind Shane Warne. No Warne means MacGill plays a lot more Test matches.

 

[Lunchtime]

He had no hope because he's a dog shit leg spinner in long form cricket, he's tailored his whole game to bowling quick flat leggies that work in short form cricket. Hes played 3 first class games in 3 years. Did he move state to try play more? Did he go overseas and play first class cricket?
Nope just had a whinge that it's some conspiracy that a bloke with a FC bowling average in the 40s can't get a gig

46.56...thats his First-Class average with the ball.

 

[Topkent]

46.56...thats his First-Class average with the ball.

Yeah. If he's hard done by Glenn Maxwell could have been our front line spinner as well

 

[beatnik]

But... he's a 38-year-old who has averaged under 30 over the past year (28 since start of last summer). It's not just the recent series v India.

If he was 30 I'd agree with you and back him to recapture past form. But he's not.

We've only had two batsmen over the past 45 years that have played at age 38+. Border and S Waugh - two of our greatest. Both retired before reaching 39. And neither were opening batsmen. Time catches us all.

Might he perform well in Sri Lanka on slower pitches? Maybe. But then it means blooding someone new for the TC and Ashes.

That’s not the same as “doesn’t deserve it” though, is it now?

Personally I think we might need him for the Ashes…we don’t need 2 rookie openers at once and don’t want Head to have to open the batting

 

[sr36]

I always wonder how unlucky Stuey Macgill feels, he's Australia's second greatest ever leg spinner and probably will still be for 100 more years. If he came along in any other era essentially he takes 500 test wickets. He was so unlucky to be born the same time as Warne

We'll never know. The advantage of Warne meant MacGill played most of his tests as a mature bowler at his peak. His record might not have been as outstanding if he was the number one guy on the way up.

 

[PhatBoy]

To watch them back to back is to feel genuinely sorry for Darryl Cullinan. Poor dude. He was a good batter. He was really good! And Warney just ruined the poor bastard.

And aside from the Warne stigma arguably his finest moment came in an innings no one even remembers him for:

When he smashed 94 out of 175 during the infamous ‘you guys are history’ Devon Malcolm demolition when Dev took 9-57 and absolutely destroyed the rest of the SA batting line up. Cullinan was the only batsman he didn’t get and was basically batting on a different wicket

 

[the_interloper]

They took everyone to the cleaners - including Shane Warne.

Australia is a spinners graveyard - particularly for finger spinners. The greats from all over the world come here and don't fire a shot. Murali averaged 75 in Aust. Swann 53, Ashwin 42.

Lyon has averaged 31 in Australia and outbowled every Australian or visiting spinner of any persuasion just about every game for a decade. And then also done well on every other continent.

When the time comes, he'll be the hardest player in our team to replace.

I agree with this, i mean they tried enough guys before they got onto him. Murphy looks a player but we won't really find out for a while, he'll only be playing when we're in the subcontinent, Lyon seems pretty resilient in terms of his body.

Amazed Murali averaged 75 here, that's incredible

 

[sr36]

I agree with this, i mean they tried enough guys before they got onto him. Murphy looks a player but we won't really find out for a while, he'll only be playing when we're in the subcontinent, Lyon seems pretty resilient in terms of his body.

Amazed Murali averaged 75 here, that's incredible

Lyon is really underrated. There's never been a harder time to be a spinner in Aust. Tests don't go 5 days. Sydney is no longer a spinner's paradise. Pink ball has turned Adelaide into a seamers pitch. This is from a couple of years ago, but I don't think it's changed much since.

Nathan Lyon compared to other spinners in the Aust test matches he's played. Warnes average was 27 vs 41 from other spinners.

Player	Balls	Runs	Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR	5w	10w
Nathan Lyon	13665	6707	204	32.87	2.94	66.9	8	2
Others	18703	11321	183	61.86	3.63	102.2	2	0
Total	32368	18028	387	46.58

 

[Topkent]

We'll never know. The advantage of Warne meant MacGill played most of his tests as a mature bowler at his peak. His record might not have been as outstanding if he was the number one guy on the way up.

This could be true, Warne was probably the only spinner ever who was able to intimidate people with mind games like he was a fast bowler, the way he'd stand at the top of his mark and move the field around and stare he could build an atmosphere and a pressure that was box office for a stock standard leggie.

MacGill didn't have that, but could have done what Lyons done? Yeah I reckon.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Only played 46 Test matches. If only he played more Test's. Averaged 29 in Tests and averaged 21 in ODI.

Up there with the best finger spinners I've seen.

Was he the one that could get the ball to turn the other way whilst still bowling with an off spinning action?

 

[swanssince2002]

Interesting that you guys talked about looking for a spinner post-Warne. Stumbled on a video which talked about just that. What a journey to get to Lyon - I think 12 spinners were tried out during that time.

Hauritz seemed like the best of the rest and I thought it would be a seamless transition to MacGill after Warne but injuries and father time hit him.

 

[sr36]

MacGill didn't have that, but could have done what Lyons done? Yeah I reckon.

I think Zampas point is that MacGill couldn't have done what Lyon does and vice versa.

Both greats of their craft with the standard strengths and weaknesses of their craft. MacGill turned it a mile and bowled a heap of deadly balls. He was a real strike bowler who could rip through a team. But he did throw down some rubbish in amongst the deadly balls. He wasn't your man to lock up an end and build up the pressure in the attritional style that the Aussies currently favour. I think we'd choose Lyon over him as he suits our game plan more.

Warney transcends because he was a strike bowler who could also lock up an end. The best of both worlds.

 

[Black Diamond]

Hauritz seemed like the best of the rest and I thought it would be a seamless transition to MacGill after Warne but injuries and father time hit him.

Jason Krejza was the best of the rest. I will die on this hill.

Flight was good, could turn it and extract bounce. They were frightened after his second test and reverted to the safer Hauritz option.

 

[Topkent]

I think Zampas point is that MacGill couldn't have done what Lyon does and vice versa.

Both greats of their craft with the standard strengths and weaknesses of their craft. MacGill turned it a mile and bowled a heap of deadly balls. He was a real strike bowler who could rip through a team. But he did throw down some rubbish in amongst the deadly balls. He wasn't your man to lock up an end and build up the pressure in the attritional style that the Aussies currently favour. I think we'd choose Lyon over him as he suits our game plan more.

Warney transcends because he was a strike bowler who could also lock up an end. The best of both worlds.

And Warne had McGrath at the other end who could be a strike bowler who also held up and end and created pressure to allow Warne to attack even more as well. What a team lol

I think MacGill could have a licence to attack if we had an allrounder like Watson or Webster who could also bowl a 7 over spell and just bowl stump to stump. You're right though MacGill arguably spun it more than Warne which meant he was never gonna have full control every time. His action was also wild lol