List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[dogs105]

Are you sure? Never heard that

Maybe I'm wrong. Could well be misremembering.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Maybe I'm wrong. Could well be misremembering.

I can't remember either way

He only played Glenelg reserves so was a fair way off

I vaguely recall Rendell the year after on 5aa saying that he was always a long term/project player. That he'd tried to get him another year with us but couldn't. Also that he'd get picked up again after a good season in the VFL. Carlton took him that year

 

[Mego Red]

Reading back over the 2021 List number announcements, it seems pretty clear that we will be going from 44 back up to at least 46 for 2022.

I imagine the AFLPA ensured that was there when the list reduction was announced - they make it clear it's only for a year in every article.

 

[Mego Red]

OP updated with current contracted player list.

 

[Caputo]

Now that we are locked into the PSD at 4. With North, Hawks, Collingwood before us. I think we should consider taking 3 picks.
I haven't considered a Ruckman until today and us at Pick 4.
Edwards, Moyle, Mirkov, Heath and then maybe Knoll and Buzza.

Edwards a monty for North. Hawks playing ducks and drakes maybe Moyle from Oakleigh and Collingwood VFL or Newcombe. Mirkov from Carlton VFL team special dispensation 22 yr old 210cm volleyballer has some interest but cold reach out for Norwood FF Callow. Heath no chance still at school. So if Moyle and Mirkov is available I would consider them. If not move to below

2nd Crows pick take Davis for 6 months and consider longer to see how he trains with AFL squad

3rd Crows pick draft a SANFL Supplementary player if good enough. Merret came close in 2019 but did knee. Provides pathway and incentive to top up players. May lift standards.

 

[Redline]

You would think Fogerty will be next deal we will want to get done. Not sure long term how he will go but he is a regular in the team so we will keep him.

I think Murphy will get one more year. He will want more than that.

I think Walker, Lynch, Talia and Seedsman will have to wait.

 

[1970crow]

You would think Fogerty will be next deal we will want to get done. Not sure long term how he will go but he is a regular in the team so we will keep him.

I think Murphy will get one more year. He will want more than that.

I think Walker, Lynch, Talia and Seedsman will have to wait.

I think the last 4 are all locked into best 22 for next year and their extensions are guaranteed. There's no way our group is deliberately getting less experienced. The only way they're not here and locked in next year is if they choose to go. Only Seed would need to request a trade the others are all full FAs.

 

[Apsaalooke]

He wasn't cut, he walked out

No he was delisted despite Rendell wanting him to have another year

 

[DJ75]

Now that we are locked into the PSD at 4. With North, Hawks, Collingwood before us. I think we should consider taking 3 picks.
I haven't considered a Ruckman until today and us at Pick 4.
Edwards, Moyle, Mirkov, Heath and then maybe Knoll and Buzza.

Edwards a monty for North. Hawks playing ducks and drakes maybe Moyle from Oakleigh and Collingwood VFL or Newcombe. Mirkov from Carlton VFL team special dispensation 22 yr old 210cm volleyballer has some interest but cold reach out for Norwood FF Callow. Heath no chance still at school. So if Moyle and Mirkov is available I would consider them. If not move to below

2nd Crows pick take Davis for 6 months and consider longer to see how he trains with AFL squad

3rd Crows pick draft a SANFL Supplementary player if good enough. Merret came close in 2019 but did knee. Provides pathway and incentive to top up players. May lift standards.

Prepare to be VERY disappointed.

AFL website lists us as only having 1 spot available. I can't see how that works, unless we haven't moved players around correctly.
I've also heard that we aren't intending on taking anyone. I hope to hell it is wrong. We are in a rebuilding phase, if you get the chance to have a look at some players for 6 months, you absolutely should maximise that opportunity. If one of them works out, it is a massive bonus.
I'd be very keen to use 3 and to have at least one of them a player with massive upside that isn't anywhere near ready. Might as well swing for the fences.

 

[Mego Red]

Prepare to be VERY disappointed.

AFL website lists us as only having 1 spot available. I can't see how that works, unless we haven't moved players around correctly.
I've also heard that we aren't intending on taking anyone. I hope to hell it is wrong. We are in a rebuilding phase, if you get the chance to have a look at some players for 6 months, you absolutely should maximise that opportunity. If one of them works out, it is a massive bonus.
I'd be very keen to use 3 and to have at least one of them a player with massive upside that isn't anywhere near ready. Might as well swing for the fences.

the AFL site doesn't list the possible spots available to clubs with LTI spots.

I'd like us to take a 3rd pick that is just a player on a well-paid 6 month deal to help improve the standard of our SANFL team. The development of our juniors needs a better side.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Some teams would be set up a bit differently. But I think Crows had 21yo 198cm 12 gamer Butts stationed on Riewoldt to start. He has remarkably held up really well this year. 20yo undersized 5 gamer Murray took CC-J. And the interceptor was 187cm(shorter than Vlastuin, way shorter than Grimes) 41 game veteran Tom Doedee. As good as Butts and Doedee have been this season, that second tall key defence post is a massive weakness in the Crows setup that most teams don’t have and that is what you saw first Coleman-Jones and then Riewoldt exploit ruthlessly yesterday.

We are stuck in no-mans land with some of the list decisions we've made.

Some commentary from Tigers supporters above.
What has been blatantly obvious to us all season is now fairly obvious to everyone else.
Where is our next KPD coming from?

Forwards
Maribor Chol - 200cm
Coleman-Jones - 200cm
Reiwoldt - 195cm (but plays much taller)

Defenders
Vlaustin - 187cm
Broad - 192cm
Grimes - 193cm
Balta - 193cm


All of Richmonds defenders were sub-194cm

What I've noticed from the makeup of Richmond is that all their players play quicker and taller than their height would indicate. What Richmond defenders lack in height they make up for in being able to PLAY taller, but also be able to get to contests quicker and support other defenders. Just have a look at their statistics from yesterday. Their backline is able to statistically impact the game with their run/spread. Balta and Grimes are their tallest players and are VERY quick around the ground for their height.

I don't know if we're trying to copy this game plan by going in fairly small against a tall forward line, but we simply don't have the mobility to do it.

Doedee is a great intercept marker and needs to be left to do just that.
Brown & Smith do what they do, and also do it well.

Jake Kelly for me is kind of in no-mans land. What does he do? At 189 cm he should be offering so much more in terms of offensive work from the backline but statistically he offers absolutely nothing. I have seen him time and time again this season refuse to leave his man and assist with spoiling the ball. Murray was given no protection at all yesterday. Why are we playing a 189cm defender who can't impact the game and offers ZERO offensively?
Butts is doing a better job of this and has 10cm in height on him. Kelly is simply not mobile at all.

What i'm talking about when i say 'mobility' is ability to use workrate to present an option and to draw key forwards. Richmond did it brilliantly against us.
Doedee, Kelly, Murray and Butts simply don't have the tanks to do this.

Where we're left in no-mans land is that we don't have any options in the SANFL to increase our mobility without sacrificing too much height. Worrell is 195cm and is not a Kelly replacement. Then we have McPherson who's 186cm and is kind of more of the same of what we already have in spades as small defenders.

But then you look around the ground and you similar issues all around the park in regards to players who not only are slow for their height, but can't play tall for their height either.

Jones - Should be lightning quick for his height but let's be honest, he isn't.
Fog - Fairly slow around the ground, and has next to no leap on him at all
Rowe - Slow for his height, doesn't impact through pressure as much as he should, but reads the game well
McAsey - VERY slow for his height, also not a fantastic leap.
McAdam - Plays taller than his height SOMETIMES (when he's up for a speccy) but at 181cm should be an absolute pressure fwd but lacks speed/intensity for his height.

Good teams might have the odd player who fits into the above categories, but we seem to be carrying A LOT who, in my opinion, have concerning attributes which act like an anchor to the rest of the team..

 

[Meteoric Rise]

We are stuck in no-mans land with some of the list decisions we've made.

Some commentary from Tigers supporters above.
What has been blatantly obvious to us all season is now fairly obvious to everyone else.
Where is our next KPD coming from?

Forwards
Maribor Chol - 200cm
Coleman-Jones - 200cm
Reiwoldt - 195cm (but plays much taller)

Defenders
Vlaustin - 187cm
Broad - 192cm
Grimes - 193cm
Balta - 193cm


All of Richmonds defenders were sub-194cm

What I've noticed from the makeup of Richmond is that all their players play quicker and taller than their height would indicate. What Richmond defenders lack in height they make up for in being able to PLAY taller, but also be able to get to contests quicker and support other defenders. Just have a look at their statistics from yesterday. Their backline is able to statistically impact the game with their run/spread. Balta and Grimes are their tallest players and are VERY quick around the ground for their height.

I don't know if we're trying to copy this game plan by going in fairly small against a tall forward line, but we simply don't have the mobility to do it.

Doedee is a great intercept marker and needs to be left to do just that.
Brown & Smith do what they do, and also do it well.

Jake Kelly for me is kind of in no-mans land. What does he do? At 189 cm he should be offering so much more in terms of offensive work from the backline but statistically he offers absolutely nothing. I have seen him time and time again this season refuse to leave his man and assist with spoiling the ball. Murray was given no protection at all yesterday. Why are we playing a 189cm defender who can't impact the game and offers ZERO offensively?
Butts is doing a better job of this and has 10cm in height on him. Kelly is simply not mobile at all.

What i'm talking about when i say 'mobility' is ability to use workrate to present an option and to draw key forwards. Richmond did it brilliantly against us.
Doedee, Kelly, Murray and Butts simply don't have the tanks to do this.

Where we're left in no-mans land is that we don't have any options in the SANFL to increase our mobility without sacrificing too much height. Worrell is 195cm and is not a Kelly replacement. Then we have McPherson who's 186cm and is kind of more of the same of what we already have in spades as small defenders.

But then you look around the ground and you similar issues all around the park in regards to players who not only are slow for their height, but can't play tall for their height either.

Jones - Should be lightning quick for his height but let's be honest, he isn't.
Fog - Fairly slow around the ground, and has next to no leap on him at all
Rowe - Slow for his height, doesn't impact through pressure as much as he should, but reads the game well
McAsey - VERY slow for his height, also not a fantastic leap.
McAdam - Plays taller than his height SOMETIMES (when he's up for a speccy) but at 181cm should be an absolute pressure fwd but lacks speed/intensity for his height.

Good teams might have the odd player who fits into the above categories, but we seem to be carrying A LOT who, in my opinion, have concerning attributes which don't point to any sort of longevity in the game.

The Crows must be doing something right WM84. For my work I analyse the teams in some depth. Butts and Doedee have been incredible for you guys given size(Doedee) and experience(Butts.) Your backline always looks a weakness to me on paper but they are holding together really well in most games. I have really enjoyed watching the Crows this year. Given you are coming from a wooden spoon, Crows fans should be absolutely delighted with the teams’ efforts. You are of course missing Talia in the backline and I think that one inclusion would have had you competing on much better terms with both the Eagles and Tigers.

Your coach seems fantastic, and all the stat padding seems to have vanished. Your team plays a great brand of footy. I tend to agree on Kelly. You just need to allow the time for some of the younger players to develop more, but the intent and adherence to game plan, is as good as any team in the competition right now. Murray was hung out to dry yesterday, the poor kid barely had a chance. But over time things like that can be corrected. You will get some more good draft picks in the next couple of years, and might get something out of a player like Hinge who you unluckily lost before he got a chance to show much of what he could do.

I am very bullish on the Crows prospects here medium to longer term.

 

[Vader]

Prepare to be VERY disappointed.

AFL website lists us as only having 1 spot available. I can't see how that works, unless we haven't moved players around correctly.
I've also heard that we aren't intending on taking anyone. I hope to hell it is wrong. We are in a rebuilding phase, if you get the chance to have a look at some players for 6 months, you absolutely should maximise that opportunity. If one of them works out, it is a massive bonus.
I'd be very keen to use 3 and to have at least one of them a player with massive upside that isn't anywhere near ready. Might as well swing for the fences.

There are a few possible explanations:

• The AFL journalists were lazy, and only looked at the number of rookie list positions available (ignoring positions resulting from LTI injuries).
• The AFC haven't lodged the paperwork required to move Milera & Hinge to the LTI list.

Even money bet.

 

[Mutineer]

Now that we are locked into the PSD at 4. With North, Hawks, Collingwood before us. I think we should consider taking 3 picks.
I haven't considered a Ruckman until today and us at Pick 4.
Edwards, Moyle, Mirkov, Heath and then maybe Knoll and Buzza.

Edwards a monty for North. Hawks playing ducks and drakes maybe Moyle from Oakleigh and Collingwood VFL or Newcombe. Mirkov from Carlton VFL team special dispensation 22 yr old 210cm volleyballer has some interest but cold reach out for Norwood FF Callow. Heath no chance still at school. So if Moyle and Mirkov is available I would consider them. If not move to below

2nd Crows pick take Davis for 6 months and consider longer to see how he trains with AFL squad

3rd Crows pick draft a SANFL Supplementary player if good enough. Merret came close in 2019 but did knee. Provides pathway and incentive to top up players. May lift standards.

There's only 1 top up player worthy of any consideration Hamish Latchford and I'd pass on him as well.

James Matthews before his ACL might have been a shot but not going as well now.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

There are a few possible explanations:

• The AFL journalists were lazy, and only looked at the number of rookie list positions available (ignoring positions resulting from LTI injuries).
• The AFC haven't lodged the paperwork required to move Milera & Hinge to the LTI list.

Even money bet.

Clubs have got until tomorrow to nominate more picks/move players to LTI. We may currently have 1 pick officially, but can add more tomorrow.

 

[Mego Red]

Now that we are locked into the PSD at 4. With North, Hawks, Collingwood before us. I think we should consider taking 3 picks.
I haven't considered a Ruckman until today and us at Pick 4.
Edwards, Moyle, Mirkov, Heath and then maybe Knoll and Buzza.

Edwards a monty for North. Hawks playing ducks and drakes maybe Moyle from Oakleigh and Collingwood VFL or Newcombe. Mirkov from Carlton VFL team special dispensation 22 yr old 210cm volleyballer has some interest but cold reach out for Norwood FF Callow. Heath no chance still at school. So if Moyle and Mirkov is available I would consider them. If not move to below

2nd Crows pick take Davis for 6 months and consider longer to see how he trains with AFL squad

3rd Crows pick draft a SANFL Supplementary player if good enough. Merret came close in 2019 but did knee. Provides pathway and incentive to top up players. May lift standards.

Davis IS the supplementary player you take with the third pick. Came over, and now we have a mechanism to pay him a bit better for the rest of the year, SANFL be damned.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

It's going to take a LONG time for the Pies to come out of this quagmire.

Surely Grundy is their biggest liability in terms of their salary cap pressures.

Spit-balling here but entertain me.

Might be why we didn't look for a ruck in the MSD?

Hamish has spoken about keeping list spaces open at the end of the year, and also indicated that we'd been into Parnell for weeks before the MSD (so we clearly had no interest in a backup ruck, despite sorely needing one). This makes me think we already have some Ruck plans in the works at the end of the year.

Would we do a swap of ROB (Calder Cannons boy) and Grundy, with a significant amount of cash going our way? Then pickup a developing ruck in the national draft?

It's insane to think that Grundy will be 28 by the time the season starts proper next year, and he has another SEVEN years to go on his contract (end of 2027).

Don't get me wrong, for the right price i'd be willing to take that contract on, as rucks are usually fairly durable.

Crows only taking 1 player at the MSD makes me think (and i hope) we're up to our eyeballs in player trades/movements with other clubs.

 

[Golumless]

It's going to take a LONG time for the Pies to come out of this quagmire.

Surely Grundy is their biggest liability in terms of their salary cap pressures.

Spit-balling here but entertain me.

Might be why we didn't look for a ruck in the MSD?

Hamish has spoken about keeping list spaces open at the end of the year, and also indicated that we'd been into Parnell for weeks before the MSD (so we clearly had no interest in a backup ruck, despite sorely needing one). This makes me think we already have some Ruck plans in the works at the end of the year.

Would we do a swap of ROB (Calder Cannons boy) and Grundy, with a significant amount of cash going our way? Then pickup a developing ruck in the national draft?

It's insane to think that Grundy will be 28 by the time the season starts proper next year, and he has another SEVEN years to go on his contract (end of 2027).

Don't get me wrong, for the right price i'd be willing to take that contract on, as rucks are usually fairly durable.

Crows only taking 1 player at the MSD makes me think (and i hope) we're up to our eyeballs in player trades/movements with other clubs.

It would make absolutely no sense for us to even consider it. Not unless Collingwood were going to hook us some first round picks to solve the Grundy dilemma. This year for us is likely one we are going to the draft or might try our hand at bringing in a highly rated kid who hasn't set the world on fire.

You can't rule out Grundy moving on, it just won't be us. It'll probably be a team nearing contention who see Grundy pushing them over the line, ala Dogs and Treloar.

The safest assumption is we didn't get a backup ruck because it's not a priority at this point in time. It's likely the correct call as well, we are deep in a rebuild at the moment, and the last thing we need is depth.

 

[Vader]

Crows only taking 1 player at the MSD makes me think (and i hope) we're up to our eyeballs in player trades/movements with other clubs.

It tells me that they don't trust the AFL to reinstate normal list sizes in 2022, which would significantly complicate our list management & draft strategy. Without those 2 extra senior list positions returning, they would need to make some difficult decisions at the end of the year, just to reach the AFL's mandatory minimum 3 ND selections.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

It would make absolutely no sense for us to even consider it. Not unless Collingwood were going to hook us some first round picks to solve the Grundy dilemma. This year for us is likely one we are going to the draft or might try our hand at bringing in a highly rated kid who hasn't set the world on fire.

You can't rule out Grundy moving on, it just won't be us. It'll probably be a team nearing contention who see Grundy pushing them over the line, ala Dogs and Treloar.

The safest assumption is we didn't get a backup ruck because it's not a priority at this point in time. It's likely the correct call as well, we are deep in a rebuild at the moment, and the last thing we need is depth.

Like i said, at the right price i'd consider it, especially if the fire sale at Collingwood continues and there's a bargain on offer.

My guess is that other players would get the chop, but Grundy is going to be a salary cap anchor for a long time.

 

[Mego Red]

Like i said, at the right price i'd consider it, especially if the fire sale at Collingwood continues and there's a bargain on offer.

My guess is that other players would get the chop, but Grundy is going to be a salary cap anchor for a long time.

I think you'd only do it as a straight swap, ROB for Grundy.

It's a lot of salary to take on, but he's also a pretty serious upgrade.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

I think you'd only do it as a straight swap, ROB for Grundy.

It's a lot of salary to take on, but he's also a pretty serious upgrade.

Eh??? I'd be expecting the Pies a significant portion of his contract, It would be a salary dump.

 

[Betts are off]

I think you'd only do it as a straight swap, ROB for Grundy.

It's a lot of salary to take on, but he's also a pretty serious upgrade.

As much as I would love Grundy as our #1 ruck for the next 7 years (and goddam I would love that), I fear that contract in 1 to 2 years time would become list building quicksand for a team like us (just like it has been for Collingwood from the day he signed it).

We could probably make it work in the short term, but would we only see the benefit of a player like that in the rebuild phase, as opposed to the phase where we should be contending again but we can no longer afford to resign our own players.

Tough tough call. Very High Risk / High Reward concept

 

[Mego Red]

Eh??? I'd be expecting the Pies a significant portion of his contract, It would be a salary dump.

We're giving up the vastly shitter footballer.

Taking on salary is how we get the better guy. This is a salary dump - Collingwood don't get the value for the player because they need to shed salary.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

As much as I would love Grundy as our #1 ruck for the next 7 years (and goddam I would love that), I fear that contract in 1 to 2 years time would become list building quicksand for a team like us (just like it has been for Collingwood from the day he signed it).

We could probably make it work in the short term, but would we only see the benefit of a player like that in the rebuild phase, as opposed to the phase where we should be contending again but we can no longer afford to resign our own players.

Tough tough call. Very High Risk / High Reward concept

Oh absolutely, you'd only do it if the deal was heavily weighted in our favour. It's just that when it comes to salary dumps it generally IS an offer heavily weighted in the buyers favour.