Game Day AFL Grand Final : West Coast Eagles V Collingwood

[SugarShane]

Buckley tends to get a raw deal around the place, but he has always come across as a decent guy to me.

Even more so because when Port joined the comp, I remember them making a big deal about how they expected to build the team around returning sons Wanganeen and Buckley. I gained a lot of respect for him when Buckley said no.

I never got the hate for Buckley. He's got a punchable face for sure but he never did anything other than play for Collingwood that bothered me. He was an absolute champion on the field, always played hard and fair, wasn't a sook or a thug.

 

[SugarShane]

I wouldn't say we definitely won't win another flag until at least 2030, but it's certainly a lot harder to win one than not

2030 is only 12 years away. That's 12/18 premiers at the absolute most. The last 12 years have seen 7 different premiers, including 2 perennial losers who got runs at the flag that we could never even dream of.

Historically, more teams will not win one, than will, in a 12 year period.

 

[Niximus]

At the time Melb. were in red-hot form, kicking the first 5 goals, demoralising the Crows and running hard all day.

That's the issue though isn't it? How little it takes to get them to drop their heads.

 

[CrowBloke]

That's the issue though isn't it? How little it takes to get them to drop their heads.

Could be .
I've searched the AFL site to see who played in Round 10 (more than 6 months after the GF), but couldn't find it. From memory, we had an injury-depleted list and the kids who played would have been overawed by it all.
At the time, I didn't know that Collective Mindlessness had been brought in before that game. Knowing that now, little wonder they were disunited and demoralised.
I watched that game to the bitter end and still remember how fumbly, non-committed, inept and slow we were, exemplified by Mackay's footstep-hearing fumbles in the goalsquare that gifted Melb. a goal, as if they needed more!
All match, the Dees got the ball and took off in overlapping, supporting numbers (reminded me of the Crows at the start of 2017) while our blokes jogged behind them and watched.
FIVE goals.
Makes the WCE GF win even more meritorious. I think you're right about the Crows dropping their heads, but the Dees were ON from the first bounce while we looked slow and dejected all game.
It was our worst loss under Pyke, but looking back it was an aberration rather than the norm. If it had anything to do with "fire in the belly" after our GF loss, as Morning Fog suggested, we'd have lost more games by 10+ goals.

P.S. Do you consider the Essendon/Fremantle/first Showdown as winnable games? Win those 3 and we were a chance to finish as high as third, % depending. Win those 3, against non-Top8 sides, then we get Smithers back and after the way we won Rounds 22 and 23, we'd have given the Finals a shake.
I know, I know, didn't happen . I just don't think the 2017 GF loss or this year's disappointments deserve the End-of-the-World outrage and abuse from our own supporter base.

 

[Niximus]

Could be .
I've searched the AFL site to see who played in Round 10 (more than 6 months after the GF), but couldn't find it. From memory, we had an injury-depleted list and the kids who played would have been overawed by it all.
At the time, I didn't know that Collective Mindlessness had been brought in before that game. Knowing that now, little wonder they were disunited and demoralised.
I watched that game to the bitter end and still remember how fumbly, non-committed, inept and slow we were, exemplified by Mackay's footstep-hearing fumbles in the goalsquare that gifted Melb. a goal, as if they needed more!
All match, the Dees got the ball and took off in overlapping, supporting numbers (reminded me of the Crows at the start of 2017) while our blokes jogged behind them and watched.
FIVE goals.
Makes the WCE GF win even more meritorious. I think you're right about the Crows dropping their heads, but the Dees were ON from the first bounce while we looked slow and dejected all game.
It was our worst loss under Pyke, but looking back it was an aberration rather than the norm. If it had anything to do with "fire in the belly" after our GF loss, as Morning Fog suggested, we'd have lost more games by 10+ goals.

P.S. Do you consider the Essendon/Fremantle/first Showdown as winnable games? Win those 3 and we were a chance to finish as high as third, % depending. Win those 3, against non-Top8 sides, then we get Smithers back and after the way we won Rounds 22 and 23, we'd have given the Finals a shake.
I know, I know, didn't happen . I just don't think the 2017 GF loss or this year's disappointments deserve the End-of-the-World outrage and abuse from our own supporter base.

Looking slow and dejected may not be every game, but it pops up like clockwork. They can't go a finals campaign without having one of those games and you won't win a flag doing that.

There was no excuse for the Essendon game, if they truly had a fire for redemption in 2018 then there would have been more fight.

I lasted until round 4 when I sat in the cold and watched a team who couldn't be bothered to break out of a jog. That was when I realised that they just don't have it in them. I left that game early for the first time in about 15 years of having a season ticket and have not been back.

 

[CrowBloke]

They can't go a finals campaign without having one of those games and you won't win a flag doing that.

True. Takes 3 (or 4) consecutive wins in Finals to get a Flag.
When last season started, I was happy and worried both. I loved those first 6 rounds, but was worried that it was unsustainable, plus I wanted the Crows to be playing their best footy in their last 6 games of 2017, including finals.

I lasted until round 4 when I sat in the cold and watched a team who couldn't be bothered to break out of a jog. That was when I realised that they just don't have it in them. I left that game early for the first time in about 15 years of having a season ticket and have not been back.

That was tough to read. I can see that you're seriously unhappy. Round 10 hit me the hardest and the loss to Fremantle twisted the knife.
2019 will be a matter of what they do differently (eg to prevent hamstring "awareness") on top of what they do better.

Thanks for being so reasonable, appreciated.

 

[kulak]

Let's appreciate how West Coast built their premiership team. It is quite unique in recent years.

The foundation of most recent premiership teams is stars taken with top 5 picks, and role players drafted/traded in around them.

West Coast have a different look.

Their stars are:
- Kennedy and Yeo, who were brought home to WA in trades
- JGov who was overlooked in one draft and rookied in the next
- Shuey who was pick 18

Then they have a bunch more role players who were either drafted at 20+ years old or picked up in trades like Hutchings, Cripps, Redden, Ryan, etc.

They only had a single top 10 draft pick playing in the GF in Chris Masten and he is a good role player at best. (Meanwhile NicNat, Gaff and Sheppard who they drafted with early picks when they were crap around 2008-2010, all missed the GF. )

State breakdown by my count:
- WA 11
- Vic 6
- SA 5

2004
Pick 37 - Mark Lecras (WA)

2005
Pick 13 - Shannon Hurn (SA)

2006
Pick 50 - Will Schofield (Vic)

2007
Pick 3 - Chris Masten (WA)
Josh Kennedy (WA) - traded from Carlton (Chris Judd)

2008
Pick 1 - Nicholas Naitanui (WA)
Pick 18 - Luke Shuey (Vic)

2009
Pick 7 - Brad Sheppard (WA)

2010
Pick 4 - Andrew Gaff (Vic)
Pick 26 - Jack Darling (WA)
Pick 29 - Scott Lycett (SA)

2011
Rookie pick 44 - Jeremy McGovern (WA)

2012
Pick 41 - Jamie Cripps (WA) - traded from St Kilda
Pick 60 - Mark Hutchings (WA)

2013
Pick 11 - Dom Sheed (SA)
Pick 28 - Elliot Yeo (WA) - traded from Brisbane
Pick 43 - Tom Barass (WA)

2014
Pick 11 - Liam Duggan (Vic)

2015
Pick 17 - Jack Redden (SA) - traded from Brisbane
Pick 36 - Tom Cole (Vic)
Lewis Jetta (WA) - traded from Sydney (Callum Sinclair)

2016
Pick 13 - Daniel Venables (Vic)
Pick 52 - Willie Rioli (SA?)
Pick 72 - Nathan Vardy (Vic) - traded from Geelong

2017
Pick 13 - Jarrod Brander (NSW)
Pick 26 - Liam Ryan (WA)

 

[John Who]

Looking slow and dejected may not be every game, but it pops up like clockwork. They can't go a finals campaign without having one of those games and you won't win a flag doing that.

There was no excuse for the Essendon game, if they truly had a fire for redemption in 2018 then there would have been more fight.

I lasted until round 4 when I sat in the cold and watched a team who couldn't be bothered to break out of a jog. That was when I realised that they just don't have it in them. I left that game early for the first time in about 15 years of having a season ticket and have not been back.

It was a bad loss in round 4 against the Pies. In retrospect, seeing that they were nearly the premiers on Grand Final day this year, it doesn’t seem to be a totally ridiculous loss, considering our injuries at the time?

 

[Niximus]

It was a bad loss in round 4 against the Pies. In retrospect, seeing that they were nearly the premiers on Grand Final day this year, it doesn’t seem to be a totally ridiculous loss, considering our injuries at the time?

It isn't about the W or L it's about how they go about it.

A team who busts their guts all game and is just outclassed is more on the path to success than a team that jogs their way through and scrapes over the line against a weak opponent.

That game they couldn't be bothered putting in any effort at all.

 

[marvin]

Could be .
I've searched the AFL site to see who played in Round 10 (more than 6 months after the GF), but couldn't find it. From memory, we had an injury-depleted list and the kids who played would have been overawed by it all.

Players that played in the GF and in Round 10: Atkins, Betts, Brown, M Crouch, Douglas, Greenwood, Hartigan, Jacobs, Jenkins, Kelly, Laird, Lynch, Mackay, Talia
Players that played in the GF who were missing in Round 10: Cameron, B Crouch, Knight, Lever, Otten, Seedsman, Sloane, Walker
Players who missed the GF but played in Round 10: Doedee, Ellis-Yolman, Fogarty, Gallucci, Gibbs, Gibson, Milera, Poholke

P.S. Do you consider the Essendon/Fremantle/first Showdown as winnable games? Win those 3 and we were a chance to finish as high as third, % depending. Win those 3, against non-Top8 sides, then we get Smithers back and after the way we won Rounds 22 and 23, we'd have given the Finals a shake.
I know, I know, didn't happen . I just don't think the 2017 GF loss or this year's disappointments deserve the End-of-the-World outrage and abuse from our own supporter base.

FWIW - we were flat as a tack for Round 1. The 3Q was kind of the Crows of old when we kicked 7, but we never had the spread and run that Essendon did. If we'd won that one it would have been pinched against the run of general play.

But I find it interesting that the runners up of the previous year have had some flat spots at the start of the subsequent year for a while now. Sydney started 2017 with 0-5. West Coast in 2016 were never in the GF rematch in R2. Sydney started 2015 1-3. I wonder if subconsciously the runner up knows exactly how hard it is to even make the GF, and there's a sudden realisation (no matter how determined they think they are) that they are right back at the bottom of the mountain.

 

[GROTTO]

Chatting to an Eagles supporter last night, I said to her I still cannot get over Darling's dropped mark inside the last minute.

Surely if they lost it would have rated as the greatest f**k up in AFL history and right up there in world sport.

 

[GreyCrow]

Chatting to an Eagles supporter last night, I said to her I still cannot get over Darling's dropped mark inside the last minute.

Surely if they lost it would have rated as the greatest f**k up in AFL history and right up there in world sport.

And he had form for it