Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

 
Nothing about socialism in this article. So no need to make this anything about socialism

The USAI package could be one of the last steps the US takes in providing direct military support to Ukraine, as newly elected President Donald Trump has publicly hinted at the decline of military aid to Kyiv and promised to end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office on 20 January.
 
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Why could an election not be held in the unoccupied areas of Ukraine?

The reason is because such an election would allow an outlet for the tremendous opposition to the war that is surging through Ukrainian society.

That is also why the political prisoners being held in Ukraine are almost without exception anti-war and left wing.

Ridiculous post.

Ukraine's constitution does not allow for elections during war time.


Your mate Putin is on Russian TV casually talking about attacking Ukrainian civilians like it's a normal everyday thing.

There is no doubt your fascist mate Putin would attack any gathering of Ukrainian civilians.

The absolute facts are Ukraine was no threat to Russia. Ukraine wanted to no longer be a puppet Russian state (funny you had no problem with that arrangement) and for that reason alone Putin has invaded and gone on a genocidal rampage.

Ukraine / Zelinsky choose no war. They are fighting because they have to, not because they want to.

Anyone trying to equate Zelensky to Putin in this war is a disgrace.
 

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Yeah, keep forgetting how many times I have to repeat this.

The Ukrainian government is involved in an imperialist war of aggression against Russia, and is willingly sending ever more young Ukrainian men to die for the profit interests of Ukrainian oligarchs and their NATO/US financial backers.

The rest of Ukrainian society is being held to ransom by the criminals and fascists in the Zelensky government.

Are you capable of a post without the word "imperialist" ? Because it feels like you have no idea what it means and just keep trying to post it in the hope that you eventually get it right.
 
^Colonial expansion is only one of these facets, and as I have repeatedly made clear, the US above any other nation is most widely engaged in annihilating countries, changing governments with the purpose of installing stooge regimes, overseeing genocide in the Middle East to reconfigure national boundaries in its own interests.

The NATO powers are also involved significantly.
Finally, the role of finance capital as even more important than the transfer of commodities and international capitalist monopolies are all predominantly based in the US/Europe. The US and Europe control dominate the global financial system, and the transfer of finance capital dictates production. (Examples: Vanguard, Black Rock...)

Russia is miniscule in the overall scheme of world finance capital.
This is what is meant by the scientific use of the word imperialism. Everyone here simply uses it to mean the conquering of territory, and as the above makes clear, this is not what the scientific use of the term means at all.

Some here make ridiculous claims such that imperialism existed in the time of the Roman empire, or the Middle Ages etc, and this is why it is necessary to point out that this is not the scientific meaning of imperialism.

Imperialism is the highest stage of world capitalism, when the term is used in the scientific manner.

Russia is simply not a player of any significance in this system. It is the US and NATO which were able to attempt to strangle Russia's economy by applying sanctions and financial chokeholds, not vice verca. In other words, it was US and NATO who wielded global financial power, not Russia.
 
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Joseph Goebbels would have been proud of the "unprovoked war" campaign unleashed after Putin's decision to invade Ukraine.

He would recognise so much of what he achieved during his tenure in Nazi Germany. Goebbels said: “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

And this is exactly the playbook that the US and European msm utilised to perfection. "Unprovoked war, unprovoked war" was drummed out in an endless barrage. It was a highly successful campaign to prevent any serious discussion or analysis of the role of US, German and British intervention from 2014 onwards, once a pro-NATO government had been installed in Ukraine.

And for those who wish to misinterpret what I am saying, let's make clear that the exposure of NATO's role in using its proxy government in Ukraine as a vehicle for provocation against Putin does not equate to support for Putin.

Putin's invasion of Ukraine was inhuman and catastrophic, and in no way do I excuse it. But it was not unprovoked. Hence, it is clear that both sides in this conflict, the Putin regime and the Zelensky regime represent class forces that are hostile to the well being of the broad populations within both Ukraine and Russia.
 
Yeah, keep forgetting how many times I have to repeat this.

The Ukrainian government is involved in an imperialist war of aggression against Russia, and is willingly sending ever more young Ukrainian men to die for the profit interests of Ukrainian oligarchs and their NATO/US financial backers.

The rest of Ukrainian society is being held to ransom by the criminals and fascists in the Zelensky government.
Oh dear here you go again forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine.
 

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Joseph Goebbels would have been proud of the "unprovoked war" campaign unleashed after Putin's decision to invade Ukraine.

He would recognise so much of what he achieved during his tenure in Nazi Germany. Goebbels said: “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

And this is exactly the playbook that the US and European msm utilised to perfection. "Unprovoked war, unprovoked war" was drummed out in an endless barrage. It was a highly successful campaign to prevent any serious discussion or analysis of the role of US, German and British intervention from 2014 onwards, once a pro-NATO government had been installed in Ukraine.

And for those who wish to misinterpret what I am saying, let's make clear that the exposure of NATO's role in using its proxy government in Ukraine as a vehicle for provocation against Putin does not equate to support for Putin.

Putin's invasion of Ukraine was inhuman and catastrophic, and in no way do I excuse it. But it was not unprovoked. Hence, it is clear that both sides in this conflict, the Putin regime and the Zelensky regime represent class forces that are hostile to the well being of the broad populations within both Ukraine and Russia.
Didn't Russia with the help of Germany invade Poland at the start of the 2nd world war ina unprovoked attack?
 
Ukraine is involved in an imperialist war, but Russia isn't.

Please, IlovethePies explain how this is so.
Of course Russia is involved in an imperialist war.

But Russia is the target of imperialism.

Ukraine is the proxy agent being used by imperialism to conduct its war of aggression against Russia.

Imperialism at this point prefers to use Ukrainian cannon fodder rather than its own cannon fodder.

That might soon change, as the European powers debate the possiblity of sending NATO troops in to reinforce the Ukrainian army, which is now massively depleted due to its staggering losses on the battle field.
 
Of course Russia is involved in an imperialist war.

But Russia is the target of imperialism.

Ukraine is the proxy agent being used by imperialism to conduct its war of aggression against Russia.

Imperialism at this point prefers to use Ukrainian cannon fodder rather than its own cannon fodder.

That might soon change, as the European powers debate the possiblity of sending NATO troops in to reinforce the Ukrainian army, which is now massively depleted due to its staggering losses on the battle field.
Did Ukraine attack Russia first or Russia attack Ukraine?
Let's also talk about Russia/Soviet union joining forces with Nazi Germany to attack Poland at the start of the 2nd world war.
 
Of course Russia is involved in an imperialist war.

But Russia is the target of imperialism.

Ukraine is the proxy agent being used by imperialism to conduct its war of aggression against Russia.

Imperialism at this point prefers to use Ukrainian cannon fodder rather than its own cannon fodder.

That might soon change, as the European powers debate the possiblity of sending NATO troops in to reinforce the Ukrainian army, which is now massively depleted due to its staggering losses on the battle field.
This reminds me of Confederate revisionism, where the Union started it and it was a "war of northern aggression".
 
This reminds me of Confederate revisionism, where the Union started it and it was a "war of northern aggression".
I know i said it was late, and I was too tired, but honestly, you need to get a grip. Comparing "confederate revisionism" with the imperialist provocations against Russia is grotesque.

I honestly think that you are better than that.
 
I know i said it was late, and I was too tired, but honestly, you need to get a grip. Comparing "confederate revisionism" with the imperialist provocations against Russia is grotesque.

I honestly think that you are better than that.
It's the same concept. A factually and morally objectionable revision of history/events in order to portray the instigator as victim.
 
A single long range missile into a residential area would be an escalation? After how many of Putin's long range missile attacks on civilians?

Okay Pies... :drunk:
Yes it would, RS.

Because when NATO long range missiles start hitting distant cities such as Kazan, this will only provide fuel to those right wing fascists in Russia who want to pressure Putin into using even more devastating weapons against Ukraine.

There is just no way out by supporting an escalation of this war.

The only progressive way out of it is to fight for an end to it.

....that is what motivates me in everything I post here.
 
Russia can end this at any time by taking their army and going home.
Reasonable point.

But the reality is that Russia can't do this.

Where would they have to withdraw to?

If it were to the borders that existed before the war started, this would represent a catastrophic strategic defeat to the Putin regime, because Ukraine would still be armed and utilised by US/NATO imperialism as a platform for launching military incursions, provocations against the Putin regime.

Putrin will not back down to accepting the previous situation (by withdrawing the Russian military presence from Ukraine), because the previous situation was what ignited the war in the first place.

US/NATO imperialism is on the warpath to overthrow Putin and dismember the Russian federation

Putin is fully aware of this agenda.

This is why it is impossible for Russia to end the war by "going home".

It is why this war is not a localised war in Ukraine, but in reality is part of an emerging global war, ie World War 3, which will destroy humanity unless the international working class builds its own revolutionary party.
 
Reasonable point.

But the reality is that Russia can't do this.

Where would they have to withdraw to?

If it were to the borders that existed before the war started, this would represent a catastrophic strategic defeat to the Putin regime, because Ukraine would still be armed and utilised by US/NATO imperialism as a platform for launching military incursions, provocations against the Putin regime.

Putrin will not back down to accepting the previous situation (by withdrawing the Russian military presence from Ukraine), because the previous situation was what ignited the war in the first place.

US/NATO imperialism is on the warpath to overthrow Putin and dismember the Russian federation

Putin is fully aware of this agenda.

This is why it is impossible for Russia to end the war by "going home".

It is why this war is not a localised war in Ukraine, but in reality is part of an emerging global war, ie World War 3, which will destroy humanity unless the international working class builds its own revolutionary party.
Not sure who is paying for the international working class revolution,they need guns let alone bullets.
Maybe Albo will dig deep for a vote catcher.
End of the day Israel will get what it wants
and Putin will be happy agreed by US and SA.
China not even scratching their head playing the long game.
 
Reasonable point.

But the reality is that Russia can't do this.

Where would they have to withdraw to?

If it were to the borders that existed before the war started, this would represent a catastrophic strategic defeat to the Putin regime, because Ukraine would still be armed and utilised by US/NATO imperialism as a platform for launching military incursions, provocations against the Putin regime.

Putrin will not back down to accepting the previous situation (by withdrawing the Russian military presence from Ukraine), because the previous situation was what ignited the war in the first place.

US/NATO imperialism is on the warpath to overthrow Putin and dismember the Russian federation

Putin is fully aware of this agenda.

This is why it is impossible for Russia to end the war by "going home".

It is why this war is not a localised war in Ukraine, but in reality is part of an emerging global war, ie World War 3, which will destroy humanity unless the international working class builds its own revolutionary party.
TLDR;

Russia cant go back to pre-war borders because of NATO presence in Ukraine at its doorstep, Ukraine needs to capitulate so that Russia can go to new borders with NATO presence in Poland and Romania at its doorstep instead.
 
^Colonial expansion is only one of these facets, and as I have repeatedly made clear, the US above any other nation is most widely engaged in annihilating countries, changing governments with the purpose of installing stooge regimes, overseeing genocide in the Middle East to reconfigure national boundaries in its own interests.

The NATO powers are also involved significantly.
Finally, the role of finance capital as even more important than the transfer of commodities and international capitalist monopolies are all predominantly based in the US/Europe. The US and Europe control dominate the global financial system, and the transfer of finance capital dictates production. (Examples: Vanguard, Black Rock...)

Russia is miniscule in the overall scheme of world finance capital.
This is what is meant by the scientific use of the word imperialism. Everyone here simply uses it to mean the conquering of territory, and as the above makes clear, this is not what the scientific use of the term means at all.

Some here make ridiculous claims such that imperialism existed in the time of the Roman empire, or the Middle Ages etc, and this is why it is necessary to point out that this is not the scientific meaning of imperialism.

Imperialism is the highest stage of world capitalism, when the term is used in the scientific manner.

Russia is simply not a player of any significance in this system. It is the US and NATO which were able to attempt to strangle Russia's economy by applying sanctions and financial chokeholds, not vice verca. In other words, it was US and NATO who wielded global financial power, not Russia.
Can you list the countries the US annilhated and the stooge governments they imposed?
 
Had been waiting expectantly for the Mobbs Bloodthirstiness Tier List but gotta go back to work tomorrow, so ... pushing on ...

As the Muscovian terrorism of missile barrages aimed at energy infrastructure continues, threatening the ability of the Ukrainian civilian population to heat a home or workplace throughout the harsh winters, Ukraine of course eventually concedes.

Concedes that they need to knuckle down and mitigate!

From [Servant of the People TG]


View attachment 2191933View attachment 2191934View attachment 2191935

Note that hospitals and emergency services are a favourite target of Russian aggression - we have discussed many times on these threads direct attacks on hospitals, as well as double-tap offensives striking emergency personnel who arrive on the scene of original missile attacks. Energy infrastructure attacks add to these threats if you're a medical service.
"Ilovethepies" would be very critical if Ukraine done the same in Russia, but he thinks it's alright for Russia to do it.
 

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Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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