Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[Soapy V]

I look at the recruiting over the last 3 years in an overall approach and I am very happy. I understand why we got some players as there was only so much we can do. The list is taking shape. Now we need to add very good or better mature players to replace the "deckchairs" and I am sure that is what we are trying to do

 

[SurreyBlue]

I look at the recruiting over the last 3 years in an overall approach and I am very happy. I understand why we got some players as there was only so much we can do. The list is taking shape. Now we need to add very good or better mature players to replace the "deckchairs" and I am sure that is what we are trying to do

No more Mullets, O’Sheas and Shaw’s.......either FA class or draft.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I look at the recruiting over the last 3 years in an overall approach and I am very happy. I understand why we got some players as there was only so much we can do. The list is taking shape. Now we need to add very good or better mature players to replace the "deckchairs" and I am sure that is what we are trying to do

We also know from SOS in his own words that the more recent deckchairs were meant primarily to bolster the list in the reserves. No one could have foreseen this injury riddled season.

 

[Funk]

Incremental improvement?

Smedts & Palmer were of more on-field than any combination of Mullett, O'Shea and Shaw.
Boekhorst was also miles better than any of the three we took in his place. That's not improvement. it's regression.

Not sure what your point is here Harks.

Logic says we should look at clubs that have a surplus of a particular type of player.

Geelong are overflowing with inside mids.
Dogs are overflowing with small running types
Tigers - small forwards
WC - tall DEFS
Sydney - half backs
GWS - runners of all sizes (SOS modus operandi)

A player who is not getting a regular game at AFL level is not necessarily a hack.

I've no doubt that Agresta will have every list analysed and identifying "overflow" players who are out of favour for some reason.

I've no doubt that we can turn over players and improve our list without losing high draft picks.

We didn't finish with 2 wins because we have 42 stars on our list.

NB - we can use the threat of PSD in negotiations if we need to - although I doubt it will actually be used.

 

[Bronze]

If we get Shiel, we're not getting Walsh; likewise for Mcgovern and Lukosius.

There is an 8 year age gap between Shiel and Walsh. Shiel is a perfect role model for Walsh also. I'm sure they can co-exist on the same team.

 

[Soapy V]

No more Mullets, O’Sheas and Shaw’s.......either FA class or draft.

I reckon we will.

Picks 1, 19 (PP), 23 & 25 is a great start if that happens
A FA like Lester & Dahlhaus (Gaff would be awesome)
Then trade for 2 or 3 of Brodie, Scrimshaw, LLoyd etc using future picks
Add some mature talent like Nelson and/or Collins as a rookie

Makes our list look a lot lot better

 

[HARKER]

Nil all draw in that scenario for mine , deckchairs the lot of them who wont add anything to Carlton.
Plenty of examples of hits and misses late in the draft but id rather take the chance on finding a Williamson than taking out someone else's rubbish.

That makes for common sense, given we've now completed our rebuild.
We don't need the players in the senior team to be protected any more and if we need that to be the case in the NB's, then let's get those bodies via the NB's

Recruiting more players for the express purpose of having them play in the Northern Blues will be a waste and makes no sense at all.
I see we've now effectively wasted 7 picks in the past few years trying to pick up free cheapies ; Shaw, O'Shea, Mullett, Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts & Gallucci

It's OK. We were rebuilding, but to further support this program is nuts.

 

[cookie monster]

Does anybody know if there's an arrangement in place between us and Port for Lobbe? Surely with the relief of salary cap pressure, we should be owed something?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think we are just in a shit of a spot. We desperately need players who will come in and improve us but the reality is those players won't be interested in us unless we want to overpay.
Sure try for a Wallis type but let's not upset the apple cart by overpaying someone who isn't a star. Maybe try a Boulton type who is young and may just want opportunities and be forced out by Lynch.
If we don't bring anyone in I'm happy enough to take 3 picks in the 70's. It still means we get three opportunities before the rookie draft and good players are always found there, so hopefully we find our Ronke, Papley ect

 

[Soapy V]

We also know from SOS in his own words that the more recent deckchairs were meant primarily to bolster the list in the reserves. No one could have foreseen this injury riddled season.

Exactly

 

[Soapy V]

Incremental improvement?

Smedts & Palmer were of more on-field than any combination of Mullett, O'Shea and Shaw.
Boekhorst was also miles better than any of the three we took in his place. That's not improvement. it's regression.

Disagree and not just on field

 

[RAPPA]

If you recruit players solely to play for the reserves then they should not be picked to play seniors irrespective of injuries. That is not an excuse; that is just a poorly developed plan from SOS.

 

[passmark]

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

i thought some of those were salary dumps.

 

[Arr0w]

Arr0w Take into account I had no issues with the 'fillers' in the first two years.
I did have so last year and for obvious reasons. Why another 3HBF's? Why? Not one mid. It was ridiculous then and it's shown up to be ridiculous now.

Read what I wrote above your post. These guys aren't even doing what they were brought in to do and you want to go to that well again, after we've invested in youth who now require exposure to the big time, continuity and faith in their abilities (We did draft them after all)

Let's bring it back to the point: I say we don't need Biggs, Horlin-Smith, Collins and in general other teams discards. What do you say?

We can disagree regarding the fillers needed, but we do agree that it was required to some level, yet the players selected were not the right type. But not all fillers have failed

No to Briggs, fine with GHS at the right price, see him as an upgrade to Kerridge and Graham. Collins with our last pick in the draft, ONLY if JGM, ASOS and Rowe are moved on

We can still obtain talent in the draft with early picks

 

[HARKER]

Disagree and not just on field

That's why I wrote 'on-field'

I don't know what you're disagreeing with though, other than to disagree.
Smedts, Palmer & Boekhorst had much better years last year than Mullett, O'Shea and Shaw have had this year, for us.

Gee. A couple were even mid-fielders and something we were lacking.

 

[Matt Clape]

We got Wright right and had to pay for the rest. (Kerridge & Lang)
We didn't really pay for Lobbe or Palmer and Smedts was the steak knives in the deal.

These off-cuts were off-cuts for a reason we thought we could get something out of them that others couldn't and have failed. Live & learn and don't go chasing Biggs, Horlin-Smith or even Collins. You may get one right every now and then, but you'll never know what you may have had otherwise.

Just shelve the program and recruit with purpose, not hope.

The only mature players we will consider recruiting now are those that can offer us 4 to 5 years service at senior level - no more “depth” acquisitions.

 

[Soapy V]

We can disagree regarding the fillers needed, but we do agree that it was required to some level, yet the players selected were not the right type. But not all fillers have failed

No to Briggs, fine with GHS at the right price, see him as an upgrade to Kerridge and Graham. Collins with our last pick in the draft, ONLY if JGM, ASOS and Rowe are moved on

We can still obtain talent in the draft with early picks

If we go to the draft with approx. 1, 19, 23 & 25 we will get some excellent talent.

I'd love to see SOS add some talent with our rookies including some "second chance" players that are hungry and ready to go.

 

[Soapy V]

That's why I wrote 'on-field'

I don't know what you're disagreeing with though, other than to disagree.
Smedts, Palmer & Boekhorst had much better years last year than Mullett, O'Shea and Shaw have had this year, for us.

Gee. A couple were even mid-fielders and something we were lacking.

That's why I wrote "not just"

Mullet etc were recruited to help the reserves. No one saw our injury list coming. If they had stayed all in in the 2's their worth would have been so much better than a Boekhurst

 

[Arr0w]

If we go to the draft with approx. 1, 19, 23 & 25 we will get some excellent talent.

I'd love to see SOS add some talent with our rookies including some "second chance" players that are hungry and ready to go.

Soap you an I both know that the list (in total), will still have at least 16 (20% roughly) changes in the next 2 years

 

[Soapy V]

Soap you an I both know that the list (in total), will still have at least 16 (20% roughly) changes in the next 2 years

Agree. If SOS can continue selecting very good players we are in a great spot. Also, and more importantly our current group of young players will really start to step up.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Hmm ... or should I say ho hum? These latest names aren't doing much for me.

Yep, my pickle remains untickled

 

[HARKER]

That's why I wrote "not just"

Mullet etc were recruited to help the reserves. No one saw our injury list coming. If they had stayed all in in the 2's their worth would have been so much better than a Boekhurst

Here's an novel idea; We recruit reserves players through the reserves.
Having watched Shaw, Mullett and O'shea, I have failed to see what they have brought to the NB's that the kids playing there, haven't. No value.

Anyway, it's premature talking about possible recruits, as just because we're kicking tyres doesn't mean we'll buy the vehicle.

 

[Soapy V]

Here's an novel idea; We recruit reserves players through the reserves.

Anyway, it's premature talking about possible recruits, as just because were' kicking tyres down't mean we'll buy the vehicle.

Bigger picture and part of the process. These players were brought in to be part of the Carlton system and help the younger players on a daily basis. They were cheap, can be delisted at any time and SOS would be banking some money for bigger names over the next 2 years.

I have no issue with what he has done so far. Recruiting is not just about next year but the next 5-10. It's all part of the rebuild process

Seriously, if we are arguing if keeping someone like Boekhurst would make a difference we really are struggling

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yep, my pickle remains untickled

That'll happen with a little one around ... and a baby.

 

[bmaurizio]

No more Mullets, O’Sheas and Shaw’s.......either FA class or draft.

Yes agree, hope treading water time is comming to an end, and we trade in or gain 1 decent FA. If not this season it will certainly be next.