Bluemour Discussion Thread IX

[HARKER]

We do, but we also need some senior bodies, but the right senior bodies
Hopefully until we start to come up the ladder, we can target cheaper options, like the Kennedys, Langs, Wrights

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

 

[Red Bull]

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

"Oh but they protect the kids" ... even though they really dont.

 

[HARKER]

"Oh but they protect the kids" ... even though they really dont.

The 18 yo Northern Blues players work harder than for most the aforementioned names.

Forget that protecting the kids shit. It had it's purpose, didn't work, doesn't need to work and that 'program' needs to be shelved.

 

[Arr0w]

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

Along with Wright, Kerridge, Lang, Lobbe, which have been reasonable pick ups for what was the cost

Never wanted all 3 of Mullet, O'Shea, Shaw and even adding a Banfield would have been so much better

But any/all of those players/decisions are easy to reverse as it was largely only list spots we gave up

 

[cookie monster]

The decision to recruit all three of Shaw, Mullett and O'Shea in the one year has been a diabolical one

 

[Metalcrusher]

What the bloody hell has a clubs ladder position got to do with rating players.
Do you rate Cripps lower because Carlton are last on the ladder.
A Mercedes is a Mercedes and a Kingswood is a Kingswood ...

Well get your arse down to a Mercedes dealer and get us some damn german royality then!

 

[Red Bull]

The 18 yo Northern Blues players work harder than for most the aforementioned names.

Forget that protecting the kids shit. It had it's purpose, didn't work, doesn't need to work and that 'program' needs to be shelved.

Id sooner take a chance late in the draft to find a Williamson than bring onboard deckchairs.
If the Hickmott boys are anything like their father , they wont need protection from the likes of Mullett etc ...

 

[HARKER]

Along with Wright, Kerridge, Lang, Lobbe, which have been reasonable pick ups for what was the cost
Never wanted all 3 of Mullet, O'Shea, Shaw and even adding a Banfield would have been so much better
But any/all of those players/decisions are easy to reverse as it was largely only list spots we gave up

We got Wright right and had to pay for the rest. (Kerridge & Lang)
We didn't really pay for Lobbe or Palmer and Smedts was the steak knives in the deal.

These off-cuts were off-cuts for a reason we thought we could get something out of them that others couldn't and have failed. Live & learn and don't go chasing Biggs, Horlin-Smith or even Collins. You may get one right every now and then, but you'll never know what you may have had otherwise.

Just shelve the program and recruit with purpose, not hope.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

I wonder how much of it was to do with TPP, not sure it can have been much.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Well get your arse down to a Mercedes dealer and get us some damn german royality then!

U can pick up a few yr old amg pretty cheap these days- no warranty is the issue

 

[HARKER]

I wonder how much of it was to do with TPP, not sure it can have been much.

No, no. That's beyond silly to pick up someone you don't need just to match up to your TPP.
If I was a player within the team, I'd be somewhat pissed that some of that money couldn't have found its way to me, instead of someone simply taking advantage of a nice holiday (Gorringe)

Biggs is said by Dogs supporters to come with some issues and GHS was just a botched high draft pick.
Why we want those high draft picked players Geelong couldn't make good of, is beyond me. (Smedts & Lang) Jackson Thurlow anyone?

 

[Unknown Origin]

The right senior bodies?

Exhibit A: Gorringe, Palmer, Smedts.
Exhibit B: Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw.

I'm not sure these bigger senior off-cuts are really doing us much good at all.
I understand the idea but the practice has really netted us next to nothing to date and the likes of Exhibit C will likely head the same way if names like Biggs & Horlin-Smith are involved.

We would have been much better off having taken six young players that had something going for them, than this motley crew.

couldnt agree more. These guys are a whole bunch of lols

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[Funk]

Who the **** is Shane Biggs?

Train robber

 

[HARKER]

I'm sure we will be looking for more of these cheap bigger bodies, but given what SOS said about them publicly, it may not work in our favour.
I wouldn't want to be a FA / Delisted FA and to have heard that they're mostly viewed as fillers. The program has failed and SOS has failed the players.

If these mature bodies were indeed still required, then get the right ones at least.
Mullett & Shaw played with the NB's yesterday and we so short of midfielders we threw Schumacher into the midfield ahead of them...think about it.

Who were they protecting and how? Answer: No one and in no way.
Neither even showed enough to be in the best players for the Northern Blues, when their big bodies should have supported the skinny 18 & 19 yo's

Go to plan B, SOS. This one ain't working.

 

[Arr0w]

We got Wright right and had to pay for the rest. (Kerridge & Lang)
We didn't really pay for Lobbe or Palmer and Smedts was the steak knives in the deal.

These off-cuts were off-cuts for a reason we thought we could get something out of them that others couldn't and have failed. Live & learn and don't go chasing Biggs, Horlin-Smith or even Collins. You may get one right every now and then, but you'll never know what you may have had otherwise.

Just shelve the program and recruit with purpose, not hope.

Again, let's drill down, even from your original reply

Gorringe, I did have hopes for him, but the cost of adding him as a DFA, only took up a list spot
Palmer, pick 135, rumoured to be a salary dump
Smedts, took a chance, but really the deal for 2E was about opening up the possibilities for Marchbank and Pickett

I never wanted all 3 of Mullet, O'Shea and Shaw, after adding Lobbe but this is what our 26+ year old players would have looked like prior to bringing them in. Take into account DOC had done his knee

Kade Simpson - Warrior, would his body hold up?
Dale Thomas - We knew his body had broken down in the past
Marc Murphy - Who could have predicted the injuries
Alex Silvagni - Injury prone
Sam Rowe - Coming off a knee injury
Matthew Kreuzer - We knew his body had broken down in the past
Ed Curnow - Warrior
Matthew Wright - Solid, been injury free
Levi Casboult - Who could have predicted the injuries
Liam Jones - Only turned his game around in the last half of the previous year
Andrew Phillips - We knew his body had broken down in the past

Can you see a common theme, highlighted in bold? The 4 players brought in were security for ruck position and backline.

Kerridge + pick 28 cost us Menzel, yet opened up a dump for the GWS 4

Lang was also a minimal cost

Wright was a DFA

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/soss-trade-history.1175850/

The reasons I started the above thread was to track and highlight the effect of our trades. Adding the players that were selected with the picks traded out, was to also show what other recruiters had taken, given many here believe SOS may be failing as a talent identifier, so what better way to highlight that, by recording what his cohorts are like when it comes to the same caper.

 

[Coona Blues]

We got Wright right and had to pay for the rest. (Kerridge & Lang)
We didn't really pay for Lobbe or Palmer and Smedts was the steak knives in the deal.

These off-cuts were off-cuts for a reason we thought we could get something out of them that others couldn't and have failed. Live & learn and don't go chasing Biggs, Horlin-Smith or even Collins. You may get one right every now and then, but you'll never know what you may have had otherwise.

Just shelve the program and recruit with purpose, not hope.

Do not want Biggs, handy player, but not an upgrade on what we already have.

Collins, is a decent KPD who is AFL ready, adds longer term depth/option than Rowey as with the exception of
Jones, our other KPD are "kids", no complaints if we pick him up as a replacement, not an add on.

GHS is a decent, experienced player with leadership creds, albeit in the Cats' seconds. Each time he has been
given a senior gig over the past couple of years, has performed well. Is simply behind a few "stars", and they
are pretty much systematically blooding a considerable group of promising kids. His career at the cattery is
done. After the no midfield debacle in the Northern Blues yesterday, offers a big body to genuinely support
the kids and offer the chance to force his way in to best 22, at least for a year or two. Plays, inside, outside
and forward, unlike some of the other anointed "deckchairs". If we cant pull a higher rated free agent, I am
not against.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I will be mightily pissed off if we recruit Shane Biggs and Horlin-Smith. Would much prefer to just keep Kerridge and Lamb on the list if we want senior bodies around the kids as they are much better players.

Horlin-Smith is a complete dud, just because he was drafted with a highish pick by Geelong does not mean he is any good as we found out with Smedts. One of the slowest players I’ve ever seen.

Biggs supposedly has issues with drugs/partying too hard? He is also another soft as butter back flanker i.e. carbon copy of Mullett who should be the first player off the list at the end of the season along with O’Shea.


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[Funk]

Not interested in more deckchairs mate , they add nothing.
Do our best to bring in quality or keep plundering the draft.
The list will mature in time and the kids will have earnt their stripes and be ready to exact their/our revenge.

This doesn't make much sense to me.

By just delisting more players and going to the draft we're hardly going to do much "plundering" with picks 86, 102 and 125.

And quality mature players don't want to play for a team that wins 2 games each year. Eg Rockliffe, Saad and Smith last year.

We have to keep incrementally improving our list every year.

Eg. O'Shea/Mullet out and bring in GHS/Biggs as FA's is a deal I'd do.

I.e. Incremental improvement and keep our picks.

 

[HARKER]

Arr0w Take into account I had no issues with the 'fillers' in the first two years.
I did have so last year and for obvious reasons. Why another 3HBF's? Why? Not one mid. It was ridiculous then and it's shown up to be ridiculous now.

Read what I wrote above your post. These guys aren't even doing what they were brought in to do and you want to go to that well again, after we've invested in youth who now require exposure to the big time, continuity and faith in their abilities (We did draft them after all)

Let's bring it back to the point: I say we don't need Biggs, Horlin-Smith, Collins and in general other teams discards. What do you say?

 

[Benaly28]

I’m sure every list has deck chairs however now in year 3 we need to look at quality big bodies to help out the kids,enough of this tried players at other clubs that are just above vfl level or can’t get a game at other clubs cause their the 22nd player onwards.Im not against finding them but they have to be the right ones and use them only for depth not as starting 22,obviously injuries play a big part with luck.

 

[Soapy V]

"Oh but they protect the kids" ... even though they really dont.

Never believed that. Mature players do help but they need to good players. Average mature bodies running around achieves little.

I understand why it happens but now we need to move on and I believe we will.

 

[Funk]

Levi?

Levi has history with boat rides on salt water - interesting........

 

[HARKER]

We have to keep incrementally improving our list every year.
Eg. O'Shea/Mullet out and bring in GHS/Biggs as FA's is a deal I'd do.
I.e. Incremental improvement and keep our picks.

Incremental improvement?

Smedts & Palmer were of more on-field than any combination of Mullett, O'Shea and Shaw.
Boekhorst was also miles better than any of the three we took in his place. That's not improvement. it's regression.

 

[Funk]

Sam Collins,GHS,Shane Biggs.
Aaron mullet,Matt Shaw,Cam O’Shea.

You see a pattern there.

We need Elite young talent!!!!

The only pattern I see here is that the first 3 are better than the second three.

 

[Red Bull]

This doesn't make much sense to me.

By just delisting more players and going to the draft we're hardly going to do much "plundering" with picks 86, 102 and 125.

And quality mature players don't want to play for a team that wins 2 games each year. Eg Rockliffe, Saad and Smith last year.

We have to keep incrementally improving our list every year.

Eg. O'Shea/Mullet out and bring in GHS/Biggs as FA's is a deal I'd do.

I.e. Incremental improvement and keep our picks.

Nil all draw in that scenario for mine , deckchairs the lot of them who wont add anything to Carlton.
Plenty of examples of hits and misses late in the draft but id rather take the chance on finding a Williamson than taking out someone else's rubbish.