Bluemour Discussion Thread XIV - Facts Not Welcome

[Prem17]

I hope we have a HUGE last day of trading.
I don't care about Shiel despite being keen to get him all year.
I'd rather a guy like Gasoline tbh because he wants to be here and has a point to prove to himself, the club and the footy world.
Regardless of what trades we can swing today, the addition of McGovern, Setterfield, Fasolo, Walsh? and maybe even Newman makes us a lot more competitive next year.
I hope that getting Newman doesn't mean that Williamson is doubtful.
Bring on a big day of trades.
Go Blues!

 

[Zlatan]

No point in even waiting for any trades before coverage begins on Fox right?

 

[Space Cadet]

Neither did GWS.

True.
We won't have the same retention issues but clubs will still chase a lot of our players.

 

[Zlatan]

I'd rather a guy like Gasoline tbh because he wants to be here and has a point to prove to himself, the club and the footy world.

Not sure he passes the OH&S test mate

 

[Brezsa]

No point in even waiting for any trades before coverage begins on Fox right?

Yes, but you will be glued to this thread all day and running to the toilet 30-40 times today at work to jump on Trade Radio. So let’s not even pretend we aren’t all hooked

 

[cfc4life]

I hate Hawthorn as much as the next bloke, but it's pretty sad seeing some of the dismissal of their sublime drafting and trading ability over the years as well as their skill in remaining competitive for a decade now. They won't plummet like many are predicting, we would kill for a culture and set up like theirs.

 

[gbatman]

I have also seen this predicted for the last 4 years …. hasn't happened yet …...

Yeah of course, their older group has only just started to drop off and the topping up has so far kept up with that. I remember for the second half of the 90s people saying that about us. Too old, too slow, expected to crash went on for 5 or 6 years before we eventually did.

Hawks haven't used early picks well, they have used late picks well but I have doubts over whether they have great numbers coming through the draft.

Shaun Burgoyne (36), Jarryd Roughead (32), James Frawley (31), Grant Birchall (31), Ricky Henderson (31), Paul Puopolo (31), Ben Stratton (30), Ben McEvoy (30), Isaac Smith (30), Brendan Whitecross (29), Ryan Schoenmakers (28), Taylor Duryea (28), Jonathan Ceglar (28), Luke Breust (28), Liam Shiels (28).

Hawks are coming into a situation where trading multiple firsts is getting difficult. These guys aren't getting any better, odds are they will start declining, having injury issues and retiring.

They won't bottom out but I think they will run into problems. It all comes down to whether their topping up can keep going, their excellent injury run can keep going and whether they topping up can keep up with the older players dropping off.

Certainly seeing it with Geelong. Been saying they will drop off for years. They did well this season but there were signs at times that they are looking a bit old.

I just reckon the Hawks have a big job and will run into trouble lacking talls.

 

[ferrisb]

I don't totally understand why we would go for Steven May?

He's a very good footballer, and would fit straight into our best 22. But we don't neeeed him, exactly.

I guess it means we would no longer need Rowe, arguably not Jones either. Would push Macreadie further down the totem pole too.

Hmmmm. I think I have answered my own question. He would be an immediate upgrade on our KPD options but still....surely he is better value for a team that actually needs an extra KPF....?

Maybe you never say no to a best 22 player that would be an upgrade on what you have...... But I still think you get better value by recruiting what you don't have, rather than what have but is not 100%....

 

[Gavstar]

No point in even waiting for any trades before coverage begins on Fox right?

Sounds like a mega trade 8 club deal (Neale, Hogan, May etc) has been set-up specifically for the live coverage. Its still being "worked on" bulltish its done and Gil is going to strut around and take the credit.

 

[RoyalBlues]

 

[Jimmae]

All you're really advocating is a return to the trading strategy that SOS had been employing 2-3 years ago. There was no problem getting players to come to Carlton then. Check out all the high draft picks that were keen to get to Carlton in those days. Best of all they were all super cheap!

Liam Sumner
Sam Kerridge
Jed Lamb
Billie Smedts
Rhys Palmer

... and before SOS Daisy (with the ankle) chose Carlton as a free agent. Bargain!

Getting risky players in for next to nothing is necessary when you don't have any draft picks, or you have really poor depth. Fortunately, Carlton have now transitioned to targeting players of proven quality and character. We’ll probably see the more speculative prospects on our rookie list.

How did you get to here from trading for Scully and Scrimshaw to turn a pick likely close to 50 in 2019 into as many as two senior players?

I never wanted Palmer, Lamb (both salary cap dumps) or Thomas, nor did I want Smedts in the Tuohy trade. I've not wanted Lamb retained this long either.

In fact the more comparable move is the one we made for Marchbank and Pickett.

He isn't a potential generational talent. Have you seen him play?

Yes. His skillset is being wasted as a defender, but motivation is clearly an issue, hence my (somewhat rhetorical) questions.

There have always been questions surrounding Scrimshaw my friend......and the answers to those questions didn't always make for pretty reading. IIRC gandaal was a big Scrimshaw fan in his draft year and received a relatively blunt reply by one of ericpascoe, barass70 or Marc Shmurf 3 that simply stated:

I've never seen one of them knock a potential draft or trade target before or since. At the time I remember thinking "WOW", but that statement has proven to be prophetic.

Scrimshaw's manager said when interviewed on SEN (Whateley 27/9/18) that:


Interestingly this story was pulled down within an hour of being put up:

View attachment 574912

TBH, despite his enormous talent, I think this is where the due diligence processes that the club has in place has allowed us to dodge a bullet here. JMO.

The story was republished, and the quotes you're hinting at appear to be in tact:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-16/bargain-or-bust-question-marks-over-new-hawk

Even Eade, a renowned hard arse, is questioning the approach taken by some. There's even code words in that article for anxiety disorder.

Great that we opted not to spend pick 5 on him, but what's the problem with a future pick swap? The biggest hurdle for mine was convincing him not to go to his beloved Hawks, but it seems we trashed that idea in June after some initial conversations.

I don't see how sidestepping this bloke twice makes us a strong organisation. The fact that people here seem to talk about his issues in the same way they would for Fevola is what scares me, because there's absolutely no evidence of that.

 

[Brezsa]

Sounds like a mega trade 8 club deal (Neale, Hogan, May etc) has been set-up specifically for the live coverage. Its still being "worked on" bulltish its done and Gil is going to strut around and take the credit.

Worst part of the live coverage is 830 is 530 WST. I should have booked today off, now I need an excuse to finish at 3. Gonna go with sick kid

 

[LanceRomance]

I hate Hawthorn as much as the next bloke, but it's pretty sad seeing some of the dismissal of their sublime drafting and trading ability over the years as well as their skill in remaining competitive for a decade now. They won't plummet like many are predicting, we would kill for a culture and set up like theirs.

Yes they will

 

[Zlatan]

I don't totally understand why we would go for Steven May?

He's a very good footballer, and would fit straight into our best 22. But we don't neeeed him, exactly.

I guess it means we would no longer need Rowe, arguably not Jones either. Would push Macreadie further down the totem pole too.

Hmmmm. I think I have answered my own question. He would be an immediate upgrade on our KPD options but still....surely he is better value for a team that actually needs an extra KPF....?

Maybe you never say no to a best 22 player that would be an upgrade on what you have...... But I still think you get better value by recruiting what you don't have, rather than what have but is not 100%....

For me, it's the cost. I don't think spending a pick between 1-6 (2019 1st rounder) for a fullback is wise business in our current position.

 

[cfc4life]

Yes they will

Everything posted in here about Hawthorn just reeks of jealousy

 

[Brezsa]

For me, it's the cost. I don't think spending a pick between 1-6 (2019 1st rounder) for a fullback is wise business in our current position.

Also don’t forget this is the guy that knocked Ed out cold this year.

I don’t want to have to boo a Carlton player, but I will, you don’t touch a Curnow

 

[LanceRomance]

Everything posted in here about Hawthorn just reeks of jealousy

Not really.. They are squeezing the end of the toothpaste tube

 

[Bongo Drum]

Thank **** it's the last day of trade week.

Ten days of argy bargy, shenanigans and cat and mouse BS.

Only made worse by being forced to listen to the likes of Barrett, the List Manager (guffaw!) and Cornes.

Enough is Enough!

 

[Number17]

I think on trade radio Barrett(?) eluded to verbal argy bargy in the exit meeting between Burton and Clarko.

Right. So Burton has a ‘no dickheads policy’ then?
His credibility just went up IMO

 

[Nori]

How did you get to here from trading for Scully and Scrimshaw to turn a pick likely close to 50 in 2019 into as many as two senior players?

I never wanted Palmer, Lamb (both salary cap dumps) or Thomas, nor did I want Smedts in the Tuohy trade. I've not wanted Lamb retained this long either.

In fact the more comparable move is the one we made for Marchbank and Pickett.


Yes. His skillset is being wasted as a defender, but motivation is clearly an issue, hence my (somewhat rhetorical) questions.


The story was republished, and the quotes you're hinting at appear to be in tact:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-16/bargain-or-bust-question-marks-over-new-hawk

Even Eade, a renowned hard arse, is questioning the approach taken by some. There's even code words in that article for anxiety disorder.

Great that we opted not to spend pick 5 on him, but what's the problem with a future pick swap? The biggest hurdle for mine was convincing him not to go to his beloved Hawks, but it seems we trashed that idea in June after some initial conversations.

I don't see how sidestepping this bloke twice makes us a strong organisation. The fact that people here seem to talk about his issues in the same way they would for Fevola is what scares me, because there's absolutely no evidence of that.

Who said anything about trade A equals trade B. Pure deflection.

You are advocating a strategy of picking up risky players on the cheap.

I’ve had my say. Over and out.

 

[Burgers45]

Tweets Tweets, current page.

• Tweets & replies

• Media

SuperFooty (AFL) followed

1. 
   SuperFooty (AFL)‏Verified account @superfooty 2m2 minutes ago
   
   
   LOOK OUT! Carlton is meeting with Greater Western Sydney this morning to explore a last-ditch play for midfield jet Dylan Shiel. @heraldsunmick has the latest. https://bit.ly/2CO2ugG
   

 

[myblueroan]

View attachment 574932

What a great photo! Brilliant. Poetic even.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

For me, it's the cost. I don't think spending a pick between 1-6 (2019 1st rounder) for a fullback is wise business in our current position.

If Brodie was included I’d do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Aphrodite]

Well this should get this thread to 10K posts

 

[RoyalBlues]

What a great photo! Brilliant. Poetic even.

Yeah, it really captures the effort of SOS in a subtle accurate way.