Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[Robertio]

We could add mature mid midfielder but by years end he could be behind Cripps, SPS, Walsh, Dow, Fisher and if we're lucky Cunners and Setterfield. All these guys bar Cripps should be taking another step next season.

Or we could recruit a small forward/hf to compete with Polson and Pickett and add that missing dimension to our forward line.

(Obviously we'd be looking at both, I'm just arguing the latter should be higher priority).

Depends if there's one out there worth a shot.

 

[Aphrodite]

I agree Shiel is more damaging, but to his own team rather than the opponent.

He's leading the comp in turnovers

 

[gandaal]

Ed Langdon

 

[Kruezing]

Ed Langdon

And ? ...

 

[Mr_Plow]

Ed Langdon

What you got?

 

[Jabba73]

Ed Langdon

Son of Karl?

 

[therubbernub]

As nice as it would be to have conigilio and/or whitfield, we have players that are developing into these types. I think we'd get the most improvement in our list by addressing our weaknesses - a gun small forward or two would go a long way to balancing our list, more so than additional mids imo.

I agree . Last year showed that just because we want/need a certain type of player, that doesnt mean that they will necessarily get here. Shiel was reportedly courted for a lot of 2018 and looked like he was coming to us and then BANG >>>>To essendon. The bigger the name/reputation the less likely we get them. Its just an odds thing whereby the player managers open their player up to the whole competition once a decision to move was made as in the case of Shiel.
i dont think we need another "good" midfielder- we have our own, so if we go after another midfielder it will be an elite one and that is reflected in most of the talk being about Coniglio, Kelly etc. The problem is, that there is only a very small chance that we get either of those 2 players. Our best chance IMO is to be working on other mids that are not in the frame of public discussion - like Neale last year. But in Neales case I am told that there were special circumstances at foot there that enabled brisbane to nab him. i would look at a player like Hunter for example.
In the forward line things open up considerably- papley has been discussed, I would love heyward. But whoever it is, they dont have to be an elite small forward to add substantially to our forward line. Simply, we have a much greater chance of getting a 20-30 goal forward , than we do an elite midfielder. look at how much Newman has added to our defence. He is not a star, just a very solid defender. If we could find 2 similar role playing forwards that could add 20-30 goals each then we can move forward with trying to find the next Rozee or Rankine. a de goey or Greene type would also be amazing.

 

[therubbernub]

Get me Mitch Duncan from the Cats and I will be happy

All this talk about the cats midfield, but I just cant see them letting any go. GAJ and selwood are surely on borrowed time and will need replacing soon. Dangerfield will be 30 at start of 2020 season. Those 3 guns will succumb to injury just like Judd did - GAJ already has, and given the physicality of Danger and Selwood's game style , I cant see them lasting greater than the average midfielder.

 

[therubbernub]

Whitfield is super quick too, even ASADA can’t catch up with him.

Yeah but he had Balme blocking for him

 

[SickQwon]

Not claiming to be an ITK poster but according to his mates, Whitfield will finish his career in Victoria.

 

[Aphrodite]

Not claiming to be an ITK poster but according to his mates, Whitfield will finish his career in Victoria.

Welcome to Carlton Lachie

 

[Soapy V]

We could add mature mid midfielder but by years end he could be behind Cripps, SPS, Walsh, Dow, Fisher and if we're lucky Cunners and Setterfield. All these guys bar Cripps should be taking another step next season.

Or we could recruit a small forward/hf to compete with Polson and Pickett and add that missing dimension to our forward line.

(Obviously we'd be looking at both, I'm just arguing the latter should be higher priority).

If you look at our young midfield we are 2 seasons away from consistent 4 quarter performances. The talent is there but it needs help. We desperately need big bodied help even into 2020/21. Get that right and a lot of problems solve themselves, even up forward

Depth is absolutely vital to success

I have no doubt we will be chasing mids, a Ruck or 2 and 1-2 small forwards plus maybe one or 2 other things. We will have our fingers in many many options. Hopefully we can land more than a few

 

[Gethelred]

I agree . Last year showed that just because we want/need a certain type of player, that doesnt mean that they will necessarily get here. Shiel was reportedly courted for a lot of 2018 and looked like he was coming to us and then BANG >>>>To essendon. The bigger the name/reputation the less likely we get them. Its just an odds thing whereby the player managers open their player up to the whole competition once a decision to move was made as in the case of Shiel.
i dont think we need another "good" midfielder- we have our own, so if we go after another midfielder it will be an elite one and that is reflected in most of the talk being about Coniglio, Kelly etc. The problem is, that there is only a very small chance that we get either of those 2 players. Our best chance IMO is to be working on other mids that are not in the frame of public discussion - like Neale last year. But in Neales case I am told that there were special circumstances at foot there that enabled brisbane to nab him. i would look at a player like Hunter for example.
In the forward line things open up considerably- papley has been discussed, I would love heyward. But whoever it is, they dont have to be an elite small forward to add substantially to our forward line. Simply, we have a much greater chance of getting a 20-30 goal forward , than we do an elite midfielder. look at how much Newman has added to our defence. He is not a star, just a very solid defender. If we could find 2 similar role playing forwards that could add 20-30 goals each then we can move forward with trying to find the next Rozee or Rankine. a de goey or Greene type would also be amazing.

Realistically, the whole competition was not open at all. Shiel wanted to come back to Victoria; that immediately rules out 7 clubs, and eliminated the possibility of staying at GWS. He's not a need at the Pies, and Richmond would want him to tackle; shocking state of affairs, wanting your white collar midfield with a decidedly working class attitude. Melbourne could've used his services, but they paid big to a few others and Lever, their cap was becoming somewhat unbalanced, and other contracts - specifically, from us and the Saints - looked more appetizing. Hawthorn are approaching North Melbourne-esque levels of 'Come to us, get in a contract well worth the having!', with the only difference being that they're more successful in getting good players over, and more willing to take a punt on an injury prone player than others are. They're still frantically gesticulating like mad, trying to convince people that their era is not done, not yet; they fail to realise that, short of a flash in the pan, the players that have left do not equal those who remain, and that their ignorance concerning anyone below the age of 25 (aside from Worpel, spruiked as a potential no.1 pick a year out, before falling due to attitude and fitness concerns; a very Hawthorn/Geelong pick indeed) is going to hurt them soon. Geelong have rebuilt subtly, but they're still old and still need their big players to fire for them to win when the heat is on them. All they've done to this point is win at home. And they couldn't have afforded Shiel anyway, not with the price ceiling they set for themselves.

So, the only real candidates for Shiel to go to - in terms of having what he wanted in terms of $$$ and in terms of prospects, short/medium/long - there were only really the three clubs; St Kilda, Carlton, Essendon. He was never going to St Kilda; their trajectory is still, even with their upswing, shaping to be worse than ours. Essendon were fortunate; they were able to tell him that all he'd have to provide was exactly what he already was and he'd have a place in their team. We - us and St Kilda (and Hawthorn) - would have wanted him to grow, to show leadership, to be responsible; in short, we'd need him to continue to improve with us. Instead of going somewhere in which he'd be challenged, Shiel chose instead to be comfortable with who and what he was, exactly as he is; as part of a list that will look gorgeous in attack, but brittle and easily dispatched in defence. It's a decision I can certainly sympathise with, even as it condemns him to forever wondering, after his career is over, if he made a different choice could he have been a better player with a better profile; could he have played in a premiership, instead of choosing to be the career footballer comfortable to exist rather than to attempt to climb to the peak of the sport.

 

[HBF]

Not claiming to be an ITK poster but according to his mates, Whitfield will finish his career in Victoria.

I bet he ends up at Hawthorn.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Ellis is one I'd be really going after. Cheap, experienced and in decent form. He makes mistakes every now and then but I like him.

Just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

[therubbernub]

Realistically, the whole competition was not open at all. Shiel wanted to come back to Victoria; that immediately rules out 7 clubs, and eliminated the possibility of staying at GWS. He's not a need at the Pies, and Richmond would want him to tackle; shocking state of affairs, wanting your white collar midfield with a decidedly working class attitude. Melbourne could've used his services, but they paid big to a few others and Lever, their cap was becoming somewhat unbalanced, and other contracts - specifically, from us and the Saints - looked more appetizing. Hawthorn are approaching North Melbourne-esque levels of 'Come to us, get in a contract well worth the having!', with the only difference being that they're more successful in getting good players over, and more willing to take a punt on an injury prone player than others are. They're still frantically gesticulating like mad, trying to convince people that their era is not done, not yet; they fail to realise that, short of a flash in the pan, the players that have left do not equal those who remain, and that their ignorance concerning anyone below the age of 25 (aside from Worpel, spruiked as a potential no.1 pick a year out, before falling due to attitude and fitness concerns; a very Hawthorn/Geelong pick indeed) is going to hurt them soon. Geelong have rebuilt subtly, but they're still old and still need their big players to fire for them to win when the heat is on them. All they've done to this point is win at home. And they couldn't have afforded Shiel anyway, not with the price ceiling they set for themselves.

So, the only real candidates for Shiel to go to - in terms of having what he wanted in terms of $$$ and in terms of prospects, short/medium/long - there were only really the three clubs; St Kilda, Carlton, Essendon. He was never going to St Kilda; their trajectory is still, even with their upswing, shaping to be worse than ours. Essendon were fortunate; they were able to tell him that all he'd have to provide was exactly what he already was and he'd have a place in their team. We - us and St Kilda (and Hawthorn) - would have wanted him to grow, to show leadership, to be responsible; in short, we'd need him to continue to improve with us. Instead of going somewhere in which he'd be challenged, Shiel chose instead to be comfortable with who and what he was, exactly as he is; as part of a list that will look gorgeous in attack, but brittle and easily dispatched in defence. It's a decision I can certainly sympathise with, even as it condemns him to forever wondering, after his career is over, if he made a different choice could he have been a better player with a better profile; could he have played in a premiership, instead of choosing to be the career footballer comfortable to exist rather than to attempt to climb to the peak of the sport.

All great points. But i still think that even the best 'groomed" player will investigate their options. In Shiels particular case that restricted him to a field of 3-4 as you point out, but a Coniglio or kelly will have a far greater field to choose from - as would (dare I say it) Cripps. Going for the big names as a strategy is well and good , but it cannot be relied upon- no matter how much work has gone into the said player

 

[Jabba73]

Yeah but he had Balme blocking for him

No wonder they couldn’t reach him

 

[Blues_fest]

24 - 28 years old with around 100 games plus is basic criteria. Has to be the focus. We have the young talent.

Jack Martin has to be a target
Papley would be great
Coniglio would be awesome but can’t see it
Menegola is a mature big body that can play mid and forward. Is there anyone similar?
Is there another Newman around? Underrated and cheap
I’d chase Darcy Cameron as a Ruck. Jeremy Goddard from WA has promise and is ready
5-6 very good mature players would be awesome

Also a good young player like Joe Atley from PA might be a chance. Will Drew I rate

IMO every Pick has to be on the table this year.

Why jack Martin mate?

What has he shown this far to show he will be a regular high level consistent contributor that doesn’t go missing in big games or when the pressure is on? He’s been in the system a long time. As a suns foundation member I’ve seen a lot of him and hit a miss is a nice way to put it. But even his great games haven’t blown me away like he was touted..

Right now he’s a hbf or hff and I’d take Williamson, doc, stocker, Cunningham, fish, Newman over him week in week out.

Surely he costs more than he can deliver. I’d like to see us pretend to chase him, raise his price a little but have our eyes on the real prize.

Personally Papley x 10 over Martin for me..

I’d be very disappointed if we paid good money for Martin.




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[Soapy V]

Why jack Martin mate?

What has he shown this far to show he will be a regular high level consistent contributor that doesn’t go missing in big games or when the pressure is on? He’s been in the system a long time. As a suns foundation member I’ve seen a lot of him and hit a miss is a nice way to put it. But even his great games haven’t blown me away like he was touted..

Right now he’s a hbf or hff and I’d take Williamson, doc, stocker, Cunningham, fish, Newman over him week in week out.

Surely he costs more than he can deliver. I’d like to see us pretend to chase him, raise his price a little but have our eyes on the real prize.

Personally Papley x 10 over Martin for me..

I’d be very disappointed if we paid good money for Martin.




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IMO the last 12 months have seen him step up a lot. 24 and 76 games. Ready to go. Has rare ability and I reckon getting into a better system he would really shine.

Having Papley Martin & Cuningham up forward would be very dangerous

 

[The Bighouse]

IMO every Pick has to be on the table this year.

Problem is the AFL don’t trust clubs to do that.

 

[AT97]

I bet he ends up at Hawthorn.

Aren’t Newman and the Whitfield’s (lochie and his brother) best mates? Were next door neighbours or something.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Aren’t Newman and the Whitfield’s (lochie and his brother) best mates? Were next door neighbours or something.

they are very good mates based off their instagram posts, not sure how far back the link goes or if they are best mates but they are definitely friends

 

[therubbernub]

Aren’t Newman and the Whitfield’s (lochie and his brother) best mates? Were next door neighbours or something.

Absolutely Lachie hid under the newmans table during the 'enquiry"

 

[passmark]

Ed Langdon

Don't mind ed. if they could get Luke Ryan in a deal I'd be ok with that as well.

 

[VainGlorious]

Rocky would have been great for us

Yeah he probably would’ve been good to help out Crippa, but it may have meant we missed out on Walsh.

Walsh > Rocky long term