Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[9874123]

I absolutely love TDK as a player, but after all that fuss about re-signing him last year he signed a two-year deal that takes him to free agency. If we are serious about chasing Petracca then some eggs will have to be broken, not just on the trade table, but in the accounting department too.

If TDK says to us "I want to stay at Carlton, but I am not going to sacrifice more than a million bucks to do it" then Petracca would be pretty good compensation for him. Don't forget that we haven't actually signed Weitering up yet, despite reports of him turning down some crazy offers from other Melbourne teams. These reports of our stars taking unders to stay together will only stretch so far, and to be honest, I don't really see TDK as one who is as willing to do that as say a Walsh, Weitering, or Cripps.

 

[BlueJet]

For those of you who would explore trading TDK for Petracca (or something):

Who do you envision our premiership ruckman to be?

Yes, clubs have won without gun key forwards. However, every premiership team (except perhaps the Bulldogs) has won with a ruckman vastly superior to that of Pittonet.

No TDK or capable ruckman, no premiership.

I guess the idea is you'd make a second move to secure an additional ruckman.
Ruck isn't a premium position & the only gun ruckman to win a flag in recent memory is Gawn.
Cameron, Stanley, Lycett etc are role players with players like Nank, prob the tier between, all of whom were at their second club & it didn't require a significant amount to acquire them.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

For those of you who would explore trading TDK for Petracca (or something):

Who do you envision our premiership ruckman to be?

Yes, clubs have won without gun key forwards. However, every premiership team (except perhaps the Bulldogs) has won with a ruckman vastly superior to that of Pittonet.

No TDK or capable ruckman, no premiership.

Yeah, this one is a no go for me. He is more important than everyone except Cripps and Weitering.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Wouldn't trade TDK for anyone in the competition if I'm honest. He took some time but he is a dead set freak when he's fit and he's only going to get better. His only weakness is not having that 28-29 year old ruckman strength yet. Everything else is elite.

 

[Wickzki]

The bigger problem we have is goal kicking mids...

no goal kicking mids, no premiership and I believe that is a statistical fact.

The Pies didn't have a gun KPF... Mihochek is a hard worker/solid contributor, same with McStay. They had Four goal kicking mids that rack up on average 20+ disposals and kick goals.

Look at the Swans... Heeney and Warner... add Guldon to that... who's their star KPF?

We have zero. And we have had that for a while... any surprises we haven't finished top 4?

I agree but I also say that having a quality ruckman is important too.

Look at the past 20 -years.

2023 -- Darcy Cameron

2022 - Rhys Stanley

2021 - Max Gawn

2020 - Toby Nankervis

2019 - Toby Nankervis

2018 - Scott Lycett

2017 - Toby Nankervis

2016 - Jordan Roughead

2015 - David Hale and Ben McEvoy

2014 - David Hale and Ben McEvoy

2013 - Max Bailey and David Hale

2012 - Shane Mumford

2011 - Brad Ottens

2010 - Darren Jolly

2009 - Mark Blake and Brad Ottens

2008 - Robert Campbell

2007 - Brad Ottens

2006 - Dean Cox

2005 - Darren Jolly

Tell me which ones Pittonet is better than.

Yes, we need goal kicking mids but you don't get there by giving up the premiership caliber ruckman.

 

[Forty3]

Just passing on what someone who normally gives me correct info regarding team selection etc said. TDK is the name being heard a lot regarding petracca trade.
I'd personally throw up.

I think this might be coming from this weekends game against St Kilda.

There was brief footage of TDK in a box with Gubby Allen and SOS.

Media street is desperate to work out the who’s and the how’s of Petracca moving club, especially given it’s the bye week.
The rumour will grow into a trade involving King to Melbourne, TDK to saints and Petracca to Carlton.

My mail is that TDK isn’t going anywhere. But the news cycle has 12 days to fill, so we will be taken on some wild rides, that’s for sure.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes, he can renegotiate and take less.

That is a shitload of money to leave on the table, probably around $2 million.
If he was willing to take that hit, that completely changes the value and risk proposition.

Can't see him taking that type of reduction, given his current age and contract length/money

 

[Jimmae]

The bigger problem we have is goal kicking mids...

no goal kicking mids, no premiership and I believe that is a statistical fact.

The Pies didn't have a gun KPF... Mihochek is a hard worker/solid contributor, same with McStay. They had Four goal kicking mids that rack up on average 20+ disposals and kick goals.

Look at the Swans... Heeney and Warner... add Guldon to that... who's their star KPF?

We have zero. And we have had that for a while... any surprises we haven't finished top 4?

This year we've got Cripps at 0.7 goals per game, Kennedy at 0.7 (though he's been all over the ground at times)... but dotted around them are our half forwards: Hollands and Fogarty.

Last year, the Pies had Daicos at 0.86, and then Adams at 0.57.

Swans' system actually does try to generate goals from stoppages and open play, and it comes at the expense of kicking to their key forwards a bit, but they have a lot of smart and talented types up there (Hayward, McDonald, Papley) and also rotate mids through a bit. There's still a breadth of quality there, while we've only got McKay and Charlie.

What exactly are you looking for in terms of 'goals from midfield'? It's pretty clear our issue is midfield pressure, particularly in defensive transition, defensive stoppages, and centre bounces, and quality levels of clearances and inside 50 kicks.

We're 4th for points for on the ladder, but bottom 5 for points against. Even if you strip a couple of outlier games out of it, we're still mediocre at defending.

We score great, but we make it hard on ourselves to score, and wind up leaving the gate wide open because we lack speed through the middle of the ground and we often don't adjust our 22/23 to suit that.

You're ignoring so many obvious arguments, inventing statistics, and arguably inventing problems. Stop.

 

[BlueJet]

I agree but I also say that having a quality ruckman is important too.

Look at the past 20 -years.

2023 -- Darcy Cameron

2022 - Rhys Stanley

2021 - Max Gawn

2020 - Toby Nankervis

2019 - Toby Nankervis

2018 - Scott Lycett

2017 - Toby Nankervis

2016 - Jordan Roughead

2015 - David Hale and Ben McEvoy

2014 - David Hale and Ben McEvoy

2013 - Max Bailey and David Hale

2012 - Shane Mumford

2011 - Brad Ottens

2010 - Darren Jolly

2009 - Mark Blake and Brad Ottens

2008 - Robert Campbell

2007 - Brad Ottens

2006 - Dean Cox

2005 - Darren Jolly

Tell me which ones Pittonet is better than.

Yes, we need goal kicking mids but you don't get there by giving up the premiership caliber ruckman.

Stanley, Roughead, Bailey, Blake & Campbell.
He's had competitive games against the likes of Nankervis.
Pittonet has been poor but his best is serviceable, my question is around his durability & whether he's capable of getting back to his best.
From the list above, I certainly don't see an elite ruck as a must have for premiership success.

 

[9874123]

I think this might be coming from this weekends game against St Kilda.

There was brief footage of TDK in a box with Gubby Allen and SOS.

Media street is desperate to work out the who’s and the how’s of Petracca moving club, especially given it’s the bye week.
The rumour will grow into a trade involving King to Melbourne, TDK to saints and Petracca to Carlton.

My mail is that TDK isn’t going anywhere. But the news cycle has 12 days to fill, so we will be taken on some wild rides, that’s for sure.

Appreciate the mail as always. Is the TDK news mainly referring to this year, or have the club received some sort of indication of his long term plans?

 

[BlueTongue]

Just passing on what someone who normally gives me correct info regarding team selection etc said. TDK is the name being heard a lot regarding petracca trade.
I'd personally throw up.

Don't think Robbie would let that go through

 

[Stamos]

It won't... look at what the Pies did to Grundy and Treloar...

Neither signed for unders.
Grundy was on huge overs, and Treloar was massively back-ended.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Yeah was thinking the same thing.

I reckon it'll be something like Cerra + #11 + F1 for Trac + #38

Three first round picks ?? They can FO

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Appreciate the mail as always. Is the TDK news mainly referring to this year, or have the club received some sort of indication of his long term plans?

Pffft

Gonna put the tinfoil hat on, but TDK and JSOS in the corporate box last weekend with gubby.....TDK to saints, king to dees and Trac to Blues

 

[DangerousD]

A lot?
You made the comparison with us, who in that same time traded 1sts for Marchbank, Saad, Cerra, and then Stocker, a shift down to get Kemp & Philp, a shift back for Moir.

Why are you using the use of a 1st round pick on a kid in the draft in comparison to a club using their 1st round pick on an established player?

Do you not see the trading of a 1st round pick for the below players as trading a 1st round pick for a player, as a lot?

This list goes back to 2012

Caddy
Stanley
Henderson
Touhy
Ablett
Dangerfield
Cameron x3
Bruhn

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I think this might be coming from this weekends game against St Kilda.

There was brief footage of TDK in a box with Gubby Allen and SOS.

Media street is desperate to work out the who’s and the how’s of Petracca moving club, especially given it’s the bye week.
The rumour will grow into a trade involving King to Melbourne, TDK to saints and Petracca to Carlton.

My mail is that TDK isn’t going anywhere. But the news cycle has 12 days to fill, so we will be taken on some wild rides, that’s for sure.

Any word or explanation on why TDK would be sitting with Gubby & Sos in the first place ?

 

[9874123]

Any word or explanation on why TDK would be sitting with Gubby & Sos in the first place ?

Jack was in the box too and he is still SOS's son, makes sense if he was with TDK before the game and said "Hey Tom, my dad's in a box right now, wanna go watch the footy up there?"

 

[AT97]

Do we really think any “decent” player would want to go to that sh@t show called Melbourne? I don’t think there’s any hope that Cerra would say yes…I reckon draft picks will be the trade currency and perhaps a young player who is not quite established.

 

[Magruder]

Seriously, a 29 year old that they’ve actively alienated and (if rumours are true) recklessly endangered to the cusp of criminality.

Don’t care if there’s an NDA and neither would a court.

A solitary 1st rounder with some pick shuffling is genorous.

Actually allows Melbourne to present themselves as magnanimous …

 

[MrJimmy]

Lol, leek over possibly top three player in the AFL. Leek has accomplished **** all(just because we hope he will be great, doesnt mean he will be). Trac is a no brainer.

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'd love Trac playing for us as much as the next guy, the man is a game changer but you got to look at the whole picture. He would almost certainly cost us one of TDK, Charlie or H, none of whom we should be comfortable handing over.

Aleer is exactly what we need. Young, athletic defender with potential to be anything that isn't going to cost us the farm.

You're right, he may not be great, but who knows where Tracs headspace is at after his injury. He may not be the same player either.

 

[Magruder]

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'd love Trac playing for us as much as the next guy, the man is a game changer but you got to look at the whole picture. He would almost certainly cost us one of TDK, Charlie or H, none of whom we should be comfortable handing over.

Aleer is exactly what we need. Young, athletic defender with potential to be anything that isn't going to cost us the farm.

You're right, he may not be great, but who knows where Tracs headspace is at after his injury. He may not be the same player either.

I don’t think Melbourne have any leverage.

Trac & Aleer for less than we think…but if I had to pick one it’s probs the athletic 23 KPD

 

[RPCB]

We are officially in silly season now.

TDK was sitting next to a teammate (St Kilda list managers son) and Gubby Allen, at a game against St Kilda where Gubby Allen is literally in the stadium, and it somehow means TDK is going to St Kilda.

C’mon.

 

[katmanblue]

Famously on Dee’s radio in the semi final

"I hate this song"

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Contract will probably carry over with the same salary. Cerra + future second is way unders. Attach two to three firsts to that and Carlton paying Petracca’s whole salary and they’d probably take it.

bloke will be 29 next year. He's not a 22 yo break out player with heaps of potential.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I find the idea that Petracca has baggage as crazy, for the past 10 years, has it ever been reported or a rumour that he’s been anything except a proffesional?

Cost, i dont think he will cost too much, even my idea of our two 1st rounders, isn’t much when you consider the % of 1st round picks who dont make it.

There’s plenty of ways to bring in players without losing a key player.

Where has it ever been reported to alluded to that Petracca is bad for culture?

In terms of developing those guys, how would playing Petracca limit the development of a half forward/forward pocket? Or a wingman? Lord played on the weekend, but do you have the same worries for his development when Cerra, Williams, Boyd, Gov, Harry, Charlie return?

The good players survive.

Where there is smoke, there’s fire.

Given the much reported rifts & breakdown of unity & culture at Melbourne it’s naive to think Petracca is a golden professional with no fault.

Melbourne is a un-godly mess & surely Petracca as a leader at the club has played his part.

I want no part of it at Carlton.

Two first round picks won’t get a trade done for Melbourne’s 2nd best player - it’s been widely represented - they want a marquee player back at least. Given he’s contracted for another 5 years, the task of trading isn’t as easy as you make out.

Running blindly towards something as monumental as a trade for Petracca is potentially destructive for our club & would be irresponsible & frankly stupid - without asking questions about the potential downside.