Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[BIuebagger]

Can we do The Hovercraft for Trac. It been durable, it covers a lot of ground, great in wet weather and has a great engine to clock up the kms on game day, plus they can take it for a spin at Buller during the snow season

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Thanks for your reply Stamos.
Id argue that we’ve had Walsh already finish 4th in a Brownlow.
Charlie and Harry win the Coleman.
Weitering in AA squads.
That’s pretty much beastmode already and we’re still to crack top 4.
Hopefully TDK reaches that level soon.
Petracca delivers the midfield explosion and half forward goal kicking power we desperately need.
The tall defender issue is also addressed in the post.

The clock is ticking on Cripps … and this group …

100%

 

[Blue and Silver]

Can't see us trading for Trac and the Bont..
Cost would be too high.

How are we going to afford Pav?

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Petracca at Hawthorn wins a premiership
Petracca at Carlton destroys a culture.
Why you ask because Hawthorn build from the ground up and Petracca is like the cherry on top
Carlton have never built the foundation properly and Petracca just perpetuates our obsession with star players, quick fixes and sugar hits

Seriously, the only culture Carlton have are perennial non finals contenders.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I’m seriously worried about Petracca’s mindset. Just don’t think he’ll be the same player again.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

What if the system doesn’t work though, Brissy?

My argument would be that if this is the system the coach wants to play then you get the players that fit the system.

Alternatively, the club says No and then Voss has to tweak the system to suit the players he has at his disposal.

Im assuming that when Voss was hired as coach he was done so on the provisio that he presented a system that he believes could win a premiership.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

If Petracca = premierships, why have Melbourne only got 1 during his tenure? He's had Gawn, Viney, Oliver in the midfield with him, the best winger of the moment in Langdon, two AA quality backmen in May and Lever, distributors like Rivers and Salem, gun medium and small forward in Fritch and Pickett.
The only premiership was in a covid year when Jackson tore the game apart for a half. They haven't looked like it since Jackson left ... and he is about the closest thing to Harry they had.
On this rationale alone I am saying Harry is more important
No way you give Harry up in any trade.

You can ask these questions about every team.

We have Doc, Cripps, Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Weitering etc etc that are AA players, 2 x Coleman medalists and a Brownlow thrown in, and all they've managed in that time is a PF appearance last year and a sneak into finals appearance this year on the back of crossing our fingers another team didnt win their last game or we would be talking mad monday.

We've got all that and we are consistently not a finals team. These guys are the foundation of our team and we are generally nowhere come September. Something doesnt add up for me.

 

[zeggie]

How are we going to afford Pav?

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

We landed Pav in 2021. Now let us never speak of that era again.

Pavlich to have say on Teague’s fate

Fremantle champion Matthew Pavlich has been named as one of three members of the review panel that will likely decide the fate of Carlton coach David Teague.

thewest.com.au

 

[BlueTongue]

I’m seriously worried about Petracca’s mindset. Just don’t think he’ll be the same player again.

No. Seemed a bit spacey on the news tonight, saying how he can get himself right with yoga etc., and footy's not the most important thing to him etc. He's pushing his own value down.
TBH, he looked like it was over for him to me.

EDIT: In fact, I'm calling it now - he's done. If he plays next year he is going to be struggling.

 

[bradfisher14]

I’m seriously worried about Petracca’s mindset. Just don’t think he’ll be the same player again.

More worried about his cooking/brand stuff than winning his next flag.

 

[My Hat]

Given his injuries, Trac is high risk to anyone who picks him up.

Those same injuries also make him a risk to Melbourne if he stays, not to mention other potential issues around player harmony etc.

If & when Melbourne starts to factor the risk of keeping him into their thinking, things could become much more interesting.

 

[BlueTongue]

More worried about his cooking/brand stuff than winning his next flag.

He's pretty solid/chunky. If he stops playing footy and starts eating a bit more of his Pasta he's going to balloon pretty quickly.

 

[Foucault1989]

I would not trade Harry to get Petracca. I would be steering well and truly clear of Trac. Not sure he'll get back anywhere near his best

 

[Jimmae]

Harry is less effective because our system doesn’t maximise the talents of either he or Charlie.

No forward seems to be effective in our system

Who were the dominant key forwards in the 2023 premiership team?

Who were they in 2021?

Who are they for the Swans this year? Or Port?

We're not going to draft a mid (especially with pick 11) who will have anywhere near the immediate impact Trac will have...

All you're highlighting is that you need good forwards, and we only have 2 that we kick floaters to.

Maybe Williams becomes number 3, and Jack returns in his pre-ACL form, but neither is a given. This is why I keep going on about Taj Hotton, who actually is in our draft range.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Ah always wanting what we can’t have, grass always greener etc.

Trac is great, but if he is still traumatised will he be the same player?

At the very least McKay and TDK have to be off limits.

Well, you’d want an assurance in the form of a contract extension from TDK this offseason before I’d take him off the table. Free agency year for him, prefer to get a Trac than pick 10-18 in return next offseason


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[Blue_Fusion]

Thanks for your reply Stamos.
Id argue that we’ve had Walsh already finish 4th in a Brownlow.
Charlie and Harry win the Coleman.
Weitering in AA squads.
That’s pretty much beastmode already and we’re still to crack top 4.
Hopefully TDK reaches that level soon.
Petracca delivers the midfield explosion and half forward goal kicking power we desperately need.
The tall defender issue is also addressed in the post.

The clock is ticking on Cripps … and this group …

Yeah, the dislike pile on is because people are attached to Harry, hate the idea of trading him and are scarred by the club going after "a messiah"...

The reality is, if Petracca says I want to be at Carlton, then we will be extremely negligent to not try our best to get it done. Not because he's a messiah, but because he is the help that Cripps desperately needs, he is the goal kicking mid we desperately need and he is a game breaker that we desperately need.

Now of course that means giving up quite a bit and we won't bring him in for Cerra + picks...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

No forward seems to be effective in our system

All you're highlighting is that you need good forwards, and we only have 2 that we kick floaters to.

Maybe Williams becomes number 3, and Jack returns in his pre-ACL form, but neither is a given. This is why I keep going on about Taj Hotton, who actually is in our draft range.

Nah, I'm highlighting the fact that our midfield is way too reliant on Cripps... still... we've been saying this for years...

Keeping Harry doesn't address these issues we have with our other forwards...

Trac does address the fact that we have fa mids that kick goals... and fa support for Cripps who won't be able to carry them for much longer...

 

[esoteric]

Carlton 2024 list + Trac + Houston + a bit of luck - McKay = back to back flags.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It’s picks or nothing.

Jeremy Cameron went to Geelong for picks - albeit quite a few of them.

The media can scream all they like about “Harry McKay will get it done” but they can just **** off.

The talk about Harry is purely media driven as they can’t countenance the thought of us gaining Petracca without losing a marquee player in return.

We should all be driving the narrative “it’s picks or nothing”.

Would love to give up picks for Trac... what would it take to get it done though?

We'd need 2024 + 2025 1st as a starting point...

Then we'd need to offload a couple of players on significant coin to muster a couple more picks so we can fit Trac into the cap + not screw our future...

So, who are those players that we offload?

 

[RoyalBlues]

This is why you get him. He fits the system Vossy seemingly wants to use.

Thats why you move Harry.

If you mean Harry Lemmey, then maybe

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Then we'd need to offload a couple of players on significant coin to muster a couple more picks so we can fit Trac into the cap + not screw our future...

So, who are those players that we offload?

All I need to know is that if the club is exploring the situation then they have an means in mind

 

[JustOneTime]

Carlton to focus on Leek A, Haynes and Houston in that order.

It will transform our defence. Haynes will unlike Mcgovern really play an intercept role. That's a good start there.

It's really clear that Weitering is the general down back but it is also really clear that he is lost at marshalling the defensive set up because you can see the end to end goals that go past him as opposition forwards catch us out on breaks/sneaking forward. Haynes can probably help here. Houston too.

Our defensive weaknesses are twofold. One on one body contested mark defending and ground ball clearance plus the midfield defending breakaway stoppage transition. The three defenders would fix half the problem potenitally as i dont know if aleer is more physical lockdown or more light intercepter like we already have in Kemp/young/Marchbank. We need more lockdown type and physicality to balance our side.

Houston potentially helps midfield speed if required there as he beats Kennedy, Hewett and most likely Walsh who is more one paced than fast.

If they can find a midfielder with speed instead of Houston's class, well go for it. Doubt it and houston is at least on the market for consideration.

We only need to fix derence plus Houston i think. The rest of our flag chances hinge on vossy finding Curnow/Mackay/midfield less contested victories as it bangs us up by end of season. You only have to watch games to see Charlie/Mckay contests in so many pack situations repeatedly and then see the opponents one on one rebound marking contests. It's our forwards that are paying a big price for their goals. This is based on the team's baseline output formula of high down the same wing and high into the pocket footy. Not much lowering of the eyes inside 50.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Yeah, the dislike pile on is because people are attached to Harry, hate the idea of trading him and are scarred by the club going after "a messiah"...

The reality is, if Petracca says I want to be at Carlton, then we will be extremely negligent to not try our best to get it done. Not because he's a messiah, but because he is the help that Cripps desperately needs, he is the goal kicking mid we desperately need and he is a game breaker that we desperately need.

Now of course that means giving up quite a bit and we won't bring him in for Cerra + picks...

I’d trade Cerra and a first rounder in a heart beat. They can try and mend his spaghetti hamstrings.

 

[reg_lower91]

Jon Ralph reporting that Petracca could take the Dees to a grievance tribunal to get out of his contract if it comes down to it.

If true, I think that shifts some leverage away from the Dees' side as they'll want to avoid this getting publicly messy.

2 firsts + a second in return for paying 30% of his salary.

If he wants out of the club that badly, we could absolutely make a deal work without needing to trade out a player. If that is the case, we must absolutely pursue it.

 

[circusdevil]

You can ask these questions about every team.

We have Doc, Cripps, Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Weitering etc etc that are AA players, 2 x Coleman medalists and a Brownlow thrown in, and all they've managed in that time is a PF appearance last year and a sneak into finals appearance this year on the back of crossing our fingers another team didnt win their last game or we would be talking mad monday.

We've got all that and we are consistently not a finals team. These guys are the foundation of our team and we are generally nowhere come September. Something doesnt add up for me.

Yep, you can ask the same question of every team, but with the players surrounding Petracca why hasn't he brought a premiership prior to 2021 and then again after? If he is the missing piece as you suggest he should have done it more regularly.

I'd give you prime Dustin Martin who did it 3 times with a team of role players as his back up singers, but if Trac is the answer to our woes, why hasn't there been a dynasty for Melbourne? Despite Trac they have spectacularly underperformed with a list the equal of anyones.